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Was Dragon Age: Inquisition a commercial failure?

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vgchartz puts DAI at 3,03 mln units (03.01.15). Digital copies are usually at least around 20% of retails as of late so overall 3,6 mln sold copies after 2 months...hardly a flop:M that result would be in line with Bio`s tweets/posts that game sells well.
its still not Skyrims numbers

but since vgchartz pulls those numbers out of their ass and there was no official confirmation from EA we will not know for long time.

Cant wait for next EA statement regarding Bio. It will be either DA4 or "restructuring" of Bioware:smug:
 

Branm

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Sigh still sad that this game did as well as it did....The critic reviews etc are honestly really painful to read....Shit game gets so much credit...Then again I suppose I shouldnt complain on the codex seeing that it seems the vast majority here also disliked DA: O even though that game was arguably the last true AAA RPG we have seen.. I don't count shit like WL2 or ugh Divinity with the pathetic Belgium humor or WoW gfx....
 

Jaesun

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The thing is, EA makes a majority of it's profits from all the sports games (they make millions and millions) off of those. All the BioWare games are just small projects. This isn't even a blip on the EA accountants radar. As long as they break even or even remotely a tiny bit profitable, they aren't going to go away anytime soon.

IF one of the sports franchise games suddenly had massive sales losses, THEN shit would fucking hit the fan.
 

Mustawd

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The thing is, EA makes a majority of it's profits from all the sports games (they make millions and millions) off of those. All the BioWare games are just small projects. This isn't even a blip on the EA accountants radar. As long as they break even or even remotely a tiny bit profitable, they aren't going to go away anytime soon.

I would actually argue this is the opposite. Each division/project/subsidiary more than likely has its own set profit margins, return on investment/return on assets/IRR goals, etc. So regardless on how well the company is doing, decisions on whether or not to shutter a division or evaluate a project are based on an individual basis as well as an overall strategic basis.

Also, even if they make a small profit, it doesn't necessarily mean they're doing "well". It'd be an issue if other divisions are consistently out performing Bioware on a relative/risk adjusted basis. Especially if EA's finance team continually projects them to hit a certain level of profitability, but they continually miss the mark.


I mean, why would you want unprofitable/under performing projects? Personally, I've seen this kind of thing happen before. Profitable divisions get sold, spun off, shut down, gutted, etc. all the time because they under perform and the company just doesn't want to deal with the "problem child".


IF one of the sports franchise games suddenly had massive sales losses, THEN shit would fucking hit the fan.

Well that goes without saying. Especially Madden, which is arguably their biggest franchise. If that goes down...might be the end of the world.

EDIT: I saw something in one of the 2013 or 2014 10Qs that actually mentioned their expectation on return/growth. Will probably take a look later tonight and see if we can infer anything out of that. But aint nobody got time for that right now.
 
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Mustawd

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Dragon Age re-confirmed to be bomba. Not being in the top 10 NPD sales for Dec.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=972713


Meh. Sales are only like half the picture. Profitability is king. Plus..isn't this like a month after release? How does that matter? Aren't RPGs like the games with the longest product cycles?

EDIT: Not trolling. Just seems that a short release makes the list kind of worthless?
 
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GarfunkeL

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Meh. Sales are only like half the picture. Profitability is king. Plus..isn't this like a month after release? How does that matter? Aren't RPGs like the games with the longest product cycles?

EDIT: Not trolling. Just seems that a short release makes the list kind of worthless?
EA doesn't give a shit about a game selling decently down the line. And a game that isn't in the top 10 for NA in the month that it was released - that includes all the preorders - then it's a failure for an AAA game.
 

Mustawd

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EA doesn't give a shit about a game selling decently down the line. And a game that isn't in the top 10 for NA in the month that it was released - that includes all the preorders - then it's a failure for an AAA game.

What's that based on? Even blockbuster films can recoup their costs/make a profit on different timelines beyond in
Initial release. One month is too short of a timeline.

You're just making random claims. Want to really know how EA judges DA:I? Tune into their earnings release on January 27th. If they completely ignore mentioning them then it's a dis tater. If they mention out of context sales growth, then it was Meh. If they compare it to previous games or rival games then it's a success. If they release sales it did better than skyrim probably.
 

GarfunkeL

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Yes but note how blockbuster films get sequels. Unless there's a veritable miracle, the decision for sequel is made after the first month or two and based entirely on NA ticket sales. It's not that long ago when Hollywood studios didn't care about international ticket sales. Now even DVD/BR/Digital are viable profit methods - but the single biggest/most important thing is still NA ticket sales and especially for the first month since after that the movie is mostly yanked out of circulation.

Same for games. EA isn't in the business for spending 1 million to get 2 million profit eventually, they spend 100 million and want 500 million out of it as soon as possible. Especially since their executives know that Skyrim sold 20 million. You can bet your ass they were hoping for DA:I to be in the top 5 for December, yet it's not on the list at all. This is bad because it's a multiplatform title and the selling period for consoles is much shorter than on PC. DAI might sell well - eventually - but that's gonna be months down the road and unless it takes #1 position for January in the NPD statistics, it's pretty much confirmed for bombing. Digital sales are only bigger than brick'n'mortar on PC after all.
 

Trotsky

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Sigh still sad that this game did as well as it did....The critic reviews etc are honestly really painful to read....Shit game gets so much credit...Then again I suppose I shouldnt complain on the codex seeing that it seems the vast majority here also disliked DA: O even though that game was arguably the last true AAA RPG we have seen.. I don't count shit like WL2 or ugh Divinity with the pathetic Belgium humor or WoW gfx....

Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 were the apex of Bioware. They were also the last "authentic" Bioware games. Others may not feel that way but both were in development before EA took over and had consolidated their power.
 

Mustawd

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Yes but note how blockbuster films get sequels. Unless there's a veritable miracle, the decision for sequel is made after the first month or two and based entirely on NA ticket sales. It's not that long ago when Hollywood studios didn't care about international ticket sales. Now even DVD/BR/Digital are viable profit methods - but the single biggest/most important thing is still NA ticket sales and especially for the first month since after that the movie is mostly yanked out of circulation.

Same for games. EA isn't in the business for spending 1 million to get 2 million profit eventually, they spend 100 million and want 500 million out of it as soon as possible. Especially since their executives know that Skyrim sold 20 million. You can bet your ass they were hoping for DA:I to be in the top 5 for December, yet it's not on the list at all. This is bad because it's a multiplatform title and the selling period for consoles is much shorter than on PC. DAI might sell well - eventually - but that's gonna be months down the road and unless it takes #1 position for January in the NPD statistics, it's pretty much confirmed for bombing. Digital sales are only bigger than brick'n'mortar on PC after all.


I don't think anyone is arguing DA:I is as a commercial success as Skyrim. But it's wrong to assume that it's a commercial failure or even that EA will stop making sequels. Let me give you a good example:

1. Star Wars Battlefront Renegade Squadron released on October 2007 in NA; Not in top 10 NPD for release month. Sequel was still made
2. Star Wars Battlefront was released on November 3, 2009; Not in top 10 NPD for release month; Sequels were announced by EA for 2016 and 2017 release

3. As a great example that EA truly does consider long term earnings, this is a quote from their Q2 FY15 Earnings Release:

"As a follow-up to Andrew's comments on our title slate in FY16 and FY17, we are planning to release Star Wars Battlefront in Q3 FY16 and our next Battlefield title in Q3 FY17. This provides us with a major first-person shooter title each year and allows us to focus on steadily earnings progression -- still increasing earnings progression in the coming years. This also allows our Battlefield titles to enjoy the long life we have seen historically through our core gameplay and extended services."



Look at the last bit. That's from the Chief Financial Officer...the guy who runs the department (Finance) who makes decisions on which projects are profitable or not. He's talking long term because earnings/aka cash flow is long term. That's what a large public company like EA cares about. Sustained and predictable earnings. Not just the first month.
 

GarfunkeL

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Your examples are a bit skewed, though. Renegade Squadron and Elite Squadron were both PSP titles (latter coming out on Nintendo DS as well) so nobody could honestly expect it to reach Top 10 for NPD. Considering they were very short and shallow, it probably didn't cost them much to make - meaning that a sequel will also be cheaply shat out. Renegade Squadron remained as one of the best selling PSP titles for three months, meaning that it sold well considering its platform, which certainly justifies making a sequel. This is not the case for DA:I which was both expensive to make and released on multiple platforms.

If you can bring up an AAA production from Electronic Arts or Activision (is there any other big American publishers left? Ubisoft is French) that was released on both PC and all big consoles, didn't show up on the NPD top ten for its first month and still got a sequel - and we're not talking about a franchise reboot five years down the line done by a different studio - then I'll agree that we're being too hasty and DA:I might be a big success.
 

Mustawd

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Fair enough. You make some good points.

I guess it just irks me when people only look at sales and for such small window of time. From my own experience in business it's just too short of a timeframe to evaluate the success of the product.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what EA says come January 27th.
 
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This isn't even a blip on the EA accountants radar. As long as they break even or even remotely a tiny bit profitable, they aren't going to go away anytime soon.
That "blip" is yet to work off its share of $860M EA paid for BW + Pandemic.
Thinking that "breaking even" or "tiny bit profitable" is what EA had in mind is retartet. And given BW's steady decline in both quality and popularity since acquisition, it'll start bombing long before EA sees any return on the investment.
Unless they recognize current BW's talents and lets them make that Barbie Sex Adventures and Ponies IP they've all been dreaming of.
 

GarfunkeL

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I guess it just irks me when people only look at sales and for such small window of time. From my own experience in business it's just too short of a timeframe to evaluate the success of the product.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what EA says come January 27th.
There's heavy anti-Bioware bias in Codex and when you combine with the general hatred that EA constantly gathers from gamers, I don't doubt that many/most Codexers would happily dance in joy if DAI bombs badly and leads to EA closing Bio. But yeah, it will be interesting to see the EA PR department spins this. Probably there will be mentions of long timespan profitability streams and all that jazz.
 

mastroego

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Also there's the "black" investment of buying journalists and that GOTY award.
I don't know how much those cost but it's still something that increases the total outwards flow.

Also an indication that they truly were aiming at stellar sales.
 

DalekFlay

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Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 were the apex of Bioware. They were also the last "authentic" Bioware games. Others may not feel that way but both were in development before EA took over and had consolidated their power.

I would say Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect, not ME2, but that's me. Bioware was aiming for the mass market console audience since at LEAST KotOR though, so it's not like they were ever some mighty PC elite developer who fell from heaven.
 

Roguey

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I would say Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect, not ME2, but that's me. Bioware was aiming for the mass market console audience since at LEAST KotOR though, so it's not like they were ever some mighty PC elite developer who fell from heaven.
I remember reading Patrick Weekes talking on his blog how they all knew some of their fans were going to blame EA for the changes in ME2 when in fact it was all them. Alas, purged.
 

Slow James

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vgchartz puts DAI at 3,03 mln units (03.01.15). Digital copies are usually at least around 20% of retails as of late so overall 3,6 mln sold copies after 2 months...hardly a flop:M that result would be in line with Bio`s tweets/posts that game sells well.
its still not Skyrims numbers

but since vgchartz pulls those numbers out of their ass and there was no official confirmation from EA we will not know for long time.

Cant wait for next EA statement regarding Bio. It will be either DA4 or "restructuring" of Bioware:smug:

If by "long time," you mean the EA 10-Q Q3 2015 Release here in less than two weeks... then sure. I, personally, don't find the passage of less than twenty days to be so tedious - but that's just me.

EDIT: Also, 3.6M for a game four and a half years in development IS a flop. Bethesda can do it because Fallout and TES sell tens of millions. DA:I is possibly not going to sell more than DA2, a game they cranked out in 18 months.
 
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imweasel

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Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 were the apex of Bioware. They were also the last "authentic" Bioware games. Others may not feel that way but both were in development before EA took over and had consolidated their power.
The apex of Bioware was the Baldur's Gate Trilogy, although DA:O and ME2 are also great games.

But yeah, you're right. Everything completely went to shit after EA took over and started to pull the strings.
 
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EA doesn't give a shit about a game selling decently down the line. And a game that isn't in the top 10 for NA in the month that it was released - that includes all the preorders - then it's a failure for an AAA game.
lol. you better check npd sales for last 3 years

2014
8Ft9s5p.jpg

2013
138991395288.jpg

2012
135785925509jjzru.jpg

do you see a trend?
shooters , sport games, assassins shit and not a single crpg on those lists. Also DAI was 11th for november and did not have price drop and sale in December.


If by "long time," you mean the EA 10-Q Q3 2015 Release here in less than two weeks... then sure. I, personally, don't find the passage of less than twenty days to be so tedious - but that's just me.

EDIT: Also, 3.6M for a game four and a half years in development IS a flop. Bethesda can do it because Fallout and TES sell tens of millions. DA:I is possibly not going to sell more than DA2, a game they cranked out in 18 months.
:retarded:
if we pretend that vghcartzs numbers are accurate than DAI sold in 7 weeks more than DAO(their best selling game) in 12 months. Also DAO life-time sales were around 5 mln? And guess which one was longer in development? DAO :M

DAO had also boost in sales thanks to big expansion 5 months after release and dlc line-up for almost a year after launch.

So no single player dlc for DAI in next 6 months? Yep, it probably bombed/ undersold. But i bet there will be one in 2015 since ME4 doesnt come out until late 2016.
 

Slow James

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:retarded:
if we pretend that vghcartzs numbers are accurate

I'll stop right here, because I flat out don't get this dismissal of VGChartz. Are they accurate to an exact reflection of how many units are sold? No, of course not. But do they give very accurate prediction models that vary due to sample selection? YES.

Anyone who says VGChartz pulls numbers out of their asses don't understand basic statistical polling. You know they don't actually ask every voter in the country when political polls are done, right? That only the smallest number of potential voters, who may or may not even go to the polls on Election Day, are asked questions that are VERY open to bias and slanting... and still political polls are often accurate to reflect voting behavior to a high degree of accuracy.

VGChartz uses methods more accurate and less prone to bias than that. And they should be viewed as that - a barometer of general trends, a canary in the coal mine. Couple that with the fact that they have a long reputation of being ballpark accurate for the vast majority of releases and it becomes silly to suggest that referencing is not a viable option. So yes... let's "pretend" VGChartz is accurate.

than DAI sold in 7 weeks more than DAO(their best selling game) in 12 months. Also DAO life-time sales were around 5 mln? And guess which one was longer in development? DAO :M

DAO had also boost in sales thanks to big expansion 5 months after release and dlc line-up for almost a year after launch.

So no single player dlc for DAI in next 6 months? Yep, it probably bombed/ undersold. But i bet there will be one in 2015 since ME4 doesnt come out until late 2016.

Okay... well, call me when DA:I announces an expansion, then. As it stands, they can barely manage to release a patch faster than once a month for even the most widespread of bugs. We'll see if they actually improve gameplay/UI, let alone make new game content for DLC or expansions.

Not to mention "story" was one of the most widely touted aspects of DA:O's strengths. It makes perfect sense for people to want to buy more products that continue said story. DA:I's story, on the other hand, has received tepid reception at best. Will people be willing to shell out more money for more content of that story? Will people buy new copies of the game for new content when the original can't stand on its own two legs?


You're making a lot of assumptions. You are looking at DA:O's unnaturally long shelf life when it seems much more likely to follow DA2's sharp decline and descent into the bargain bin. The game has negligible replay value compared to DA:O, has no mod support compared to DA:O, has overall negative fan reviews compared to DA:O and doesn't seem to have nearly the post-release support compared to DA:O.
 

pippin

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DAI had discounts on Origin, 33%, which is quite a lot considering it's a new game.
Also I doubt crpgs were ever a profitable genre, so there's no real reason to point fingers at bio/ea and laugh at their "loss".
 

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