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Warhammer

Hoodoo

It gets passed around.
Dumbfuck
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Is there any warhammer games that just copy the tabletop rules and swap terrain for tiles? Wouldnt imagine it would be that hard
 

spectre

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I think he wants 100% fidelity to tabletop, rites of war is on Panzer General engine, so Ino cigar here.

Seems like the best bet is still Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen, besides being real time, I hear it all looks ok.

Then there's that tabletop mod (Firestorm over Kronus?) for Dark Crusade, it's still the same thing, but all the stats get tweaked to make it feel more like tabletop.

Yeah, I am not aware of any games with 1:1 rule conversion, while as you say it may not be that hard, there's always copyrights and all that bullshit (remember that Space Hulk game that had to remove all the names to avoid massive lawhurt?)
 
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You can try playing Vassal with mods. It would look roughly like this
aPTWE.png

But you'll need a second player though, Vassal is online only and doesn't have an AI.
 

fastjack

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re

I've never played it, but i have a rom here for a 40k game that was on the ngage phone that is apparently just what you are looking for. It includes at least the marines and orks but definitely not all the factions, and I believe the ruls would be out of date by now.
 

Hoodoo

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Re: re

fastjack said:
I've never played it, but i have a rom here for a 40k game that was on the ngage phone that is apparently just what you are looking for. It includes at least the marines and orks but definitely not all the factions, and I believe the ruls would be out of date by now.

sounds alright, are ngage roms hard to work? forgot about ngage lol
 

Destroid

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I hope you mean fantasy because 40k is kind of a crap game.

EDIT: Also try out infinity on vassal, it's a pretty interesting wargame.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Destroid said:
I hope you mean fantasy because 40k is kind of a crap game.

EDIT: Also try out infinity on vassal, it's a pretty interesting wargame.
Hell, even Fantasy sucks these days. Then again, 40k has sucked for years.

Play WARMACHINE instead.
 

grotsnik

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phelot said:
Should I mention Mark of Chaos OOPS too late :lol:

*shakes head sadly*

On some distant star, a version of Mark of Chaos was released that was actually good. You could almost physically feel the expansion straining to break out of the tedium and be a decent little game. But all to no avail.
 

CrimsonAngel

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grotsnik said:
phelot said:
Should I mention Mark of Chaos OOPS too late :lol:

*shakes head sadly*

On some distant star, a version of Mark of Chaos was released that was actually good. You could almost physically feel the expansion straining to break out of the tedium and be a decent little game. But all to no avail.

Yeah it was ALMOST THERE.
It was not BAD, but it never felt great either
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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desocupado said:
What exactly sucks about 40k? Is it imbalanced or something?
Well, essentially this:

It's the popamole of tabletop wargames.

It's hopelessly limited in tactical scope, most of the strategic element is number-crunching the best points-to-power ratios, most units are just filler without any tactical personality, commanders are extremely bland and colourless types without unique touches (they're pretty much all melee machines of varying ability), special characters are just empowered versions of regular commanders, and it just plays in an extremely uneventful and boring fashion. Here's an example simplified turn:

You move units, or you don't, since if a shooting unit can shoot you most of the time have an advantage staying still. The melee units try to reach shooting units and skip their own shots to move extra D6 inches. Leaders are placed in the most expensive melee unit, almost no exceptions. Que point and shoot. Yes, no moving, fighting, casting or shooting outside their very own phase. Que possible assault moves and a close combat rock em sock robots (one side hits first, the other hits back, order based on iniative). Close combat is static, with the units facing each other and no shooting into it either, the only moves being if the losing side flees. You cannot voluntarily retreat from close combat. Also, both sides attack on both players turns, making close combat overtly deadly. There is no flanking either.


By contrast, here's a turn of WARMACHINE:

First, you allocate your commander's "mana pool" (Focus points) between his battlegroup's (his "unit" of individual units, not all Warjacks have to be a part of it) Warjacks (steam golem mecha) which the 'jacks use to boost their own rolls and allow them to use special moves and movement, and what you leave behind to power his own combat capabilities and spellcasting (each commander character has their own spell list) and decide whether or not to use the commander's once per game Feat. Then you activate each unit individually where they move, shoot, cast spells (yes, many units have spell lists) or fight, while your opponent waits for their turn.

And by that, I mean that is the categories your options go into. For one thing, ALL Warjacks can do the following Power Attacks they can use: Trample (moves forward and deals damage to small models, ie infantry, in its wake, only Heavy Warjacks can do this), Slam (charge attack where the 'jack hits the opponent with its body and can knock it down and back, requires a certain distance of movement), Push (opponent is pushed away, no damage) or Headbutt (knocks down automatically).

Now, if the 'jack has Open Hands, it can also throw its opponent into different directions (if it has two Open Hands, it can throw further), do a Headlock or a Weapon lock (effects are obvious). Also, all models moved over when the Warjack is moved due to a Power Attack or similar effect take Collateral Damage, and same-sized Warjacks can crash.

Close combat is free-flowing, with free movement in and out (though moving out of an enemy's melee range results in a Free Strike), and if a member of a unit is engaged, the unit itself is not. In fact, all members of a unit are activated and used individually, with the Command range of the unit leader dictating if they can activate as normally or need to move directly towards the unit leader and do nothing else. There are also different melee ranges, with normal range being 0.5 inch and the Reach range certain weapons have being 2 inches.

Models can shoot into close combat and units can shoot at multiple targets (since everyone shoots as individuals, unless they can execute a Combined Attack which is a special ability some units have), and they can shoot into close combat (with a chance of hitting an unintended target) if they can see the model. Hitting a target is also not a matter of a single stat (as in 40k) but of the Defense stat of the target as well, which is modified by cover (in 40k, cover gives you an additional saving throw against damage).

Also, unlike 40k, in WARMACHINE models have fronts, flanks and rears, with the standard LoS being 180 degrees (some models have a special rule that gives them 360 degree LoS) and the front of the model, with flank and rear attacks possible both in melee and shooting.

There are also next to no goon units in WARMACHINE, as almost every single unit and Warjack comes with special rules and specialities. Even standard riflemen infantry units.

In WARMACHINE, the commanders (Warcasters) also have a great degree of variation due to all being special characters, with each possessing a Theme Force list that grants the army bonuses if it takes only certain units and Warjacks. They also have variety of specialities, with there being buff characters, Warjack commanding characters, spellcasters, infantry commanders, stealth types, fighting machines and so forth. The commander is also not purely restricted to CC like in 40k, with some Warcasters like Kara Sloan being specialists in shooting. Add to that that each Warcaster has at least one unique spell in their spell lists...

Oh yea, and there are non-Warcaster special characters as well, even character units.

This was a barebones example why 40k is popamole.
 

Phelot

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CrimsonAngel said:
grotsnik said:
phelot said:
Should I mention Mark of Chaos OOPS too late :lol:

*shakes head sadly*

On some distant star, a version of Mark of Chaos was released that was actually good. You could almost physically feel the expansion straining to break out of the tedium and be a decent little game. But all to no avail.

Yeah it was ALMOST THERE.
It was not BAD, but it never felt great either

It was one of those games that I REALLY wanted to like and REALLY tried to get into. I finished the one campaign and only got halfway through the Chaos campaign when I finally stopped.

I mean, the game looks great from a graphic whore perspective. Great models, sounds, the voices.

Oh well... I never did try to expansion.
 

20 Eyes

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I doubt Games Workshop would release a video game with tabletop rules. They don't want anything cutting in on their revenue from the figures.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Personally, I think that Space Marine game is right on spot with one thing: Most of the more epic tabletop setting would make for excellent Dynasty Warriors style games. I mean, I'd totally pay extra for an Empires style game with Warhammer Fantasy characters and character creation.
 

Shannow

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CrimsonAngel said:
grotsnik said:
phelot said:
Should I mention Mark of Chaos OOPS too late :lol:

*shakes head sadly*

On some distant star, a version of Mark of Chaos was released that was actually good. You could almost physically feel the expansion straining to break out of the tedium and be a decent little game. But all to no avail.

Yeah it was ALMOST THERE.
It was not BAD, but it never felt great either
What?!? MoC is a fucking abomination. Apart from graphics and sound everything about it sucked. It went smiling past "mediocre", tipped its hat at "bad", settled comfortably in "shit" and slit its wrists. It's not a Warhammer game its a loading time with fluff that vaguely resembles Warhammer. Ah fuck it. I can't do the loading time justice, I'm far too positive.
 

attackfighter

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40k is pretty dumbed down, but I find fantasy is alright. Also both settings are very unique and interesting, I don't think any other tabletop game can compare to them (although to be fair I've never really looked into the lore of other games). The biggest flaws in the warhammer games are that 40k is simple, both are imbalanced, GW overcharges for the models (not a problem if you get them elsewhere) and the army books are so infrequently updated (there're books that haven't been updated since 6th ed.)
 
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desocupado said:
What exactly sucks about 40k? Is it imbalanced or something?

It is centered around space marines and their equivalents and killing them, thus making many army building options worthless and even if it wasn't, many of them wouldn't still be cost-effective against anything because the designers don't understand that many abilities aren't worth any points at all.

It's also a wargame where your army leaders have no other purpose than to be better at melee. Does that make sense to you?

And it has for as long as I remember revolved around one cheese or another. Rhino Rush, nerf, then entirely static shooting armies that skip 1/3 of the game round, don't remember if that was nerfed, then whatever they play now, I hear it's still space marines though. Meh. Better play Flames of War.

Oh, and how would an exact transition of WHFB work anyway, you'd be able to make measurements on the screen while using war machines and deciding charges, an unfair advantage to you.
 

Unkillable Cat

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attackfighter said:
GW overcharges for the models (not a problem if you get them elsewhere) and the army books are so infrequently updated (there're books that haven't been updated since 6th ed.)

To clarify this, there are rulebooks in play in Warhammer Fantasy that haven't been updated since 2004. Yes, that's how slow Games Workshop can be in updating their rules. And if you were as unlucky as I was, and picked a "fringe" army as your main army, you had to use a "get you by" armylist made back in 2000, or until that list was made obsolete by the release of a new edition of the rules. That's when I finally gave up on Warhammer.

On the upside, I sold those Chaos Dwarfs for quite a profit back in 2009. Made back all the money I'd spent on the hobby for 11 years with plenty of cash to spare.
 

Suicidal

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Vaarna_Aarne said:
Personally, I think that Space Marine game is right on spot with one thing: Most of the more epic tabletop setting would make for excellent Dynasty Warriors style games. I mean, I'd totally pay extra for an Empires style game with Warhammer Fantasy characters and character creation.

I'd love a properly done Starcraft or C&C-like RTS in a WH40K setting. Didn't like DoW.
 
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Or the Dark Eldar in 40k that just finally got the new book and models. They were released at the start of 3rd edition, and now it's, what, 5th edition? There have been, what, three space marine codices + many specific chapter codices after that, two Tau books which are a new race that came after almost everything...

Well it's clear that GW holding an effective monopoly isn't very good for their games. And even if you know they aren't as good as other games (like their own Battlefleet Gothic, Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Mordheim), a big factor when starting this kind of a hobby is, are there any other players? I'm going to play BB with exactly who? There sure are a lot of 40k and FB players though, better play those I guess. At least it helps the models nowdays are pretty good.

It's the same for the CCG I have played for half a decade, VTES. Sure it's better and cheaper than MTG, but the VTES EC had, what, 200 players? I read about some MTG tournament in Spain with 2000. So are you going to play the game with lots of players or the one with few players and which requires 4 players minimum in a game?

This is also why I play SC2. Maybe there are better games, but are there ones where I can start a match in less than a minute at any time of the day? And do my friends play those games? Well all of this is pretty obvious, popular games get even more popular because they are popular.
 

visions

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Demnogonis Saastuttaja said:
Oh, and how would an exact transition of WHFB work anyway, you'd be able to make measurements on the screen while using war machines and deciding charges, an unfair advantage to you.

Apparently you can do that already in tabletop WHFB in 8th edition. You now roll for your actual charge distance though, so you'll still have failed charges.

On overpriced models, anyone into warhammer, who's not interested in paying gw's prices can also look into other miniature ranges:

http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home.html

http://www.reapermini.com/

http://www.avatars-of-war.com/eng/web/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=28

http://www.gamezoneminiatures.de/

http://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/catalog/

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/

http://sciborminiatures.com/

People who've already commented on wh itt probably already know at least some of these places, but someone could still find these links useful.
 

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