Warhammer Warhammer: The End Times - Vermintide AKA Left 4 Dead with Skaven

[DramaticPopcorn]

Cool game, but getting huge fucking FPS drops on the Gray Seer map.

 

[Steve]

Cool game, but getting huge fucking FPS drops on the Gray Seer map.

That mission was unplayable for me (dipping to 30fps at worst) until I completely turned off the Max Shadow Casting Lights setting. After that I havent seen dips under 60fps. The game is fun but the optimization is a joke, especially considering the game isn't even very good looking.

 

[Renevent]

Never buy games that require a group of friends. You can get together... maybe three or four times and then people have different schedules and you're at the mercy of the shit community.


You're terrible. And so is anus_pounder for brofisting.

I'm pretty awesome actually. That video is ear cancer inducing cynical non-sense meant for sassy teenage wrist cutters.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

The major bone I have to pick with this and L4D is how latency sensitive they are.
I mean, holy shit, in L4D having 100+ ping means you literally cannot hit anyone as a tank when they run backwards, while in this game you cannot outrun any skaven or dodge. Or block in time. really is a miracle how I finished that last level man

 

[Sam Ecorners]

derp like Sammy Corners who buys every other game released and plays it for two hours total

Hey, I don't even play them. It's all about dem cards.

 

[SerratedBiz]

The major bone I have to pick with this and L4D is how latency sensitive they are.
I mean, holy shit, in L4D having 100+ ping means you literally cannot hit anyone as a tank when they run backwards, while in this game you cannot outrun any skaven or dodge. Or block in time. really is a miracle how I finished that last level man

As a South American playing in NA and EU servers I can most certainly qualify this as bullshit. Git gud, scrub.

 

[Saark]

I'm curious about this really, I've only played a few hours but what I've seen of the bots is appalling, they can't handle basic level geometry and can't handle special spawns, how could it be possible to play Nightmare with them? I don't even think Hard is doable.

One of the first things I always tell my friends about bots is that their AI focuses on survival, not killing enemies. You will have to be the one killing most of the mobs while they will mostly block and push. They also carry the gear that you have equipped for every character so you have some choices there. I would suggest playing either the bright wizard or witchhunter for those very reasons. You will need to be able to crush large waves in a short time, aswell as killing elites from afar safely. 2h sword+crossbow on the witchhunter, and the beamstaff on the bright wizard are great for that.

I mostly play witchhunter when soloing and I always get soldier/dwarf/waywatcher bots for him. I literally never had a brightwizard bot. Pick a bow with high ammo-capacity for the waywatcher aswell as some meleeweapon that has at least 3 stamina. Bots will mostly try to block and dodge rat ogre attacks, and you need 3 or more stamina on your weapon to fully mitigate the knockback attack. Some weapons only have 2 and even with a full stamina bar you/they will still take 33% of the damage. 1hand+shield for the soldier/dwarf, the ranged weapon doesn't really matter for them. For the most part the bots will just stand behind you and do absolutely nothing, which is fine. During hordes (make sure you listen to the sound to notice right away when one is coming) try to pick a spot where there is only one way to attack you ideally with a good view of the field. Keep an eye out for packmasters/ratlings/globadiers and make sure to headshot them whenever you hear their telltale sound. The soldier/dwarf will usually stand their ground and keep blocking/pushing, by moving forward during slashing and backwards during the backswing you should take little to no damage here. Soldier/Dwarf Bots can handle being surrounded for longer periods of time thanks to 5 stamina, the waywatcher will die rather quickly though. Use your ranged weapon to oneshot clanrats on your way through the map, bots will not pick up single-recharge ammo. Bots will in fact pick up and use healing items and even tomes, but they will drop tomes in favor of healing every time. They will heal when they drop below 25% so heal them up yourself before a hold-out situation, since you are running in front of them you should be able to pick up medkits and patch someone up before they grab it. Keep a strength potion+bomb for a rat ogre.

Now bots have a few major shortcomings that you will have to work around and that will cost you a run here or there. Their AI is meticulous when it comes to chasing down elites, which often gets them into trouble or outright killed. When you hear the sound of an elite, kill it before your bots do stupid shit. Ratling gunners can be oneshot with a headshot from a high damage weapon, bots have little issues dealing with globadiers/gutterrunners. Make sure to stun the globadier before he can throw his first grenade though. Rat ogres are kind of easy with bots because they know how to block properly, packmasters are your worst nightmare. Bots will forsake all defense to kill a packmaster once it has grabbed its target, oftentimes only swinging in melee and not using their ranged weapon. You can hear packmasters before they are in range to grab a target, but compared to the ratling gunner/globadier they are very close once you hear it already so be alert.
Convoluted maps with many corners, houses and multiple z-levels are a pain in the ass with bots, so maps like Morrs Garden are out of the question for nightmare. The easiest I would say are Smugglers Run, Man the Ramparts and Well Watch (this one can be a pain though since bots will not focus on the rats that are poisoning the wells). All of these maps are linear when it comes to their objectives and have multiple spots to defend vs hordes. They also have very few points of no return, which is where bots usually get stuck. If a ratling gunner or globadier spawns in a spot you can no longer reach by foot, they will still try to kill it. Unless you somehow aggro this elite so it will come towards you the bots will be stuck there until they die or get ported back to you (which is nigh impossible because the leash-range is just too big). Man the ramparts has 5 stormvermin at some point, you can easily snipe 2 of them and either bomb the others or lure them close to the edge and push them of the wall (be careful though, they can do the same).
Always look behind you to see if the bots are stuck on some single rat or elite every room, as long as the bots stay with you you should be fine. They fixed bots pulling patrols, although I am not yet convinced that avoiding a patrol takes priority over chasing an elite that spawned 500 miles away.

For nightmare you will have to have decent equipment though, so you can onehit clanrats with a charged attack and twoshot with fast-attacks. A crossbow/arquebus can kill two or three clanrats that are standing in a line because it pierces, make use of that when possible.

 

[Saark]

Looks like the first DLC will be coming in early december (currently set to be released on the 3rd), free of charge.

http://www.vermintide.com/dlc-plans-2015/

-Altar to sacrifice equipment for upgrading your arsenal
-More control over what loot is dropped
-Better AI
-Solo/Private mode (not sure what exactly this entails)
-Realistic mode (no outlines, no HUD, no crosshair)
-Survival mode, fighting endlessly harder and bigger waves of skaven
-legendary-tier (red) weapons with a unique set of traits

Quite extensive for a free DLC, I'm particularly stoked for the solo and survival mode.

Edit: Seems to be solo mode will be a modified version where you play by yourself without bots. Not sure how they would deal with packmasters/gutterrunnes, they'll probably be removed or you have to mash a button to get out before the kill you?

 

[Hoaxmetal]

So, what's the current state of the game? Worth ~15 shekels?

 

[Great Deceiver]

It's a good game that was always worth its asking price. I haven't played in a long time, but loot whiners probably got their way and the game is probably a lot easier now - but at least maybe you can find more people playing the more difficult levels instead of grinding the easy ones for gear.

 

[Metro]

Worth $5 or bundled. Hardly worth the list price.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Meh, no actual new meaningful content since release, only things to help keep autistic grinders interested.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

Anyone still playing this shit?

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

So, this got a paid DLC now along with a new patch:

http://steamcommunity.com/games/235540/announcements/detail/805395467339924010

Anyone still playing this shit?

 

[Yeesh]

So, this got a paid DLC now along with a new patch:

http://steamcommunity.com/games/235540/announcements/detail/805395467339924010

Anyone still playing this shit?

And a free weekend right now, for cheapscates like me. Played a bunch last night and found it underwhelming. I'm a great fan of the setting and also of killing things, but the lack of loot or even XP for killing things really makes missions feel like unrewarding chores. Maybe this Left4Dead-style gameplay just isn't for me... not even with rat ogres.

 

[Rahdulan]

Has anyone dabbled in this free weekend deal they have going on? Has the game changed in any significant fashion?

 

[Shackleton]

I've been playing this again since I got a new PC and can run it maxed out. I played it at launch for 35 hours or so and enjoyed it, but grew bored of it when some new shit came out.

It's changed slightly since launch, they improved the loot after missions, blues and orange loot now come more frequently. There's a few more maps and a new game mode, (although I must confess since I came back I've not tried it yet as I've been a bit rusty in my rat killing.) I've crashed a couple of times when other players have joined, so there's a still a few bugs.

The core gameplay hasn't changed though and it's pretty much exactly the same as before- run around in a gang and kill rats! You are just a bit better rewarded for it now. I *think* they might have made it a touch easier as I've done a Nightmare map already and we pretty much breezed through it, which might be my team being better than before or the game being easier, but it was not my recollection of nightmare from last time. Personally, I enjoy it even with randoms, but it's best played in smaller doses I find. If you have low tolerance for morons then you might find it a frustrating experience, but that's the same with any MP game.

If you play a few maps on the free weekend and it doesn't grab you, it won't change later on you'll just get better at it. Best to run a couple maps on easy then step up to normal, then hard when you've got a blue weapon or two and have learnt the ropes.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Biggest mistake they'made with this game was to focus on loot instead of score. Harder maps are rarely played because people will just farm the easier ones.

Having fixed items with a tiered scoring system for each level would have been much better, but of course millenial sperglords need to have "loot" to kill everything easier and see those higher damage numbers.

A shame, because the actual gameplay is pretty fun.

 

[Shackleton]

You're right,the focus is definitely on loot and it does lead to the behaviour you describe. I'm guilty of it myself, I don't like to run certain maps as I know there's a lot higher chance of a wipe than on other maps. Mind you, if you've a couple of decent players any map is doable, but there's a lot of new players thinking they can stick it on Hard and do any map. They've tried to address that with the 'quests and contracts' system, so there's incentives to run maps you have a contract for in order to work towards a known piece of loot, but it's still about loot. There's at least a lot more than 'Horn of Magnus' or 'Black Powder' running though, so it's not quite as bad as at launch.

They did make it so you can 'order' loot for your character by praying at the shrine of solace, in exchange for tokens you get from deconstructing green/blue/orange items. So if the RNG gods aren't in your favour, after a few successful runs you can get something that should be useful for your preferred class. I can imagine if you were a social person, (I'm not really) and had a decent group of friends to play with it'd be more of a blast, but it's still pretty fun once you 'git gud' with randoms.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Having fixed items with a tiered scoring system for each level would have been much better, but of course millenial sperglords need to have "loot" to kill everything easier and see those higher damage numbers.

Ever heard of Diablo? I am not sure that 'loot' is something that only appeals to millenials, loots is a fundamental driving povver for humanity since bronze age. Caveman evolved to created best rpg series of the golden age of rpg because they were driven by loot, and now you are shittalking about it? This seems ungratefull.

 

[A horse of course]

I honestly think that difficulty is a factor in Vermintide in terms of maintaining the player base. It's much more difficult to progress with an undermanned team, it's easier to end up in virtually unwinnable situations (L4D's director was much more generous with items when the team was low on health) and the amount of progress you lose when dying is higher on a number of maps. With L4D, pretty much any idiot could jump in on Normal or slightly higher difficulty and have fun - it was a "party game" in the sense of being fairly casual and approachable for newbies.

I suppose the developers believe that the loot system is the trade-off for this, because you're always inching towards something better. However, whereas other loot whore games tend to shower you with stuff (Diablo) or provide a more obvious roadmap to higher-tier equipment (MMOs etc.), Vermintide makes getting anything higher than blues a ludicrous grind if Ranald's Bones doesn't go your way (which it usually doesn't). The gambling minigame itself is actually a bit of a de-incentive for me because you can power your way through a really long, brutal map with loot die/grimoires only to end up with a shitty green, which poisons the positive feelings you get from completion.

Overall though I just think the game isn't as fun as L4D. I also had pretty annoying connection issues when I still played a few months ago. I don't know what it's like now.

 

[A horse of course]

By the way, what ever happened to that promised solo mode? You'd think they'd have one prepared for the console release.

 

[Gerrard]

Has the game changed in any significant fashion?

Clearly.

 

[Alienman]

Just tried it, it's meh. Multiplayer ruins it as usual. First match and I get into a game with someone already knowing everything, dictating what to do and how. That puts me off instantly.

 

[A horse of course]

Just tried it, it's meh. Multiplayer ruins it as usual. First match and I get into a game with someone already knowing everything, dictating what to do and how. That puts me off instantly.

Yep, the fact it's a loot-centric game means people "run" levels for maximum efficiency rather than enjoying high-level play itself. In fairness, this could also happen in L4D with muh cheevos.