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Warhammer Warhammer: The End Times - Vermintide AKA Left 4 Dead with Skaven

Hobo Elf

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Platypus Planet
People playing competitive online games seem to be doing fine, which is exactly what Versus mode was. No Versus = less replay value = less people playing after the initial month = people will be less likely to buy the game after, say, a year when the online is completely dead.
 

Night Goat

The Immovable Autism
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There on the right...is that

qeJjR.jpg
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
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1,866,684
Waywatcher:



SILENT

BADADADUHHHHHBUMDUAHDUM PEW PEW PEW


Can't say too much about it, though. Both L4D and Killing Floor both looked like total shit to me before I actually played them. A giant rat-slaying simulator could be a load of fun. My primary reserve is that the Fantasy 40k franchise is used for cash-ins more often than actual efforts.
 
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Renevent

Cipher
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
925
Been playing the past couple days...so far enjoying it a lot more than I thought I would.

Thoughts:

-Graphics and overall presentation is excellent. The atmosphere is dark, and while the levels are somewhat linear (although, there's tons of side paths/hidden rooms), it's impressive how grand they make some of areas appear. There's a lot paths, vertical spaces, choke points, etc. I also like how they implemented lobbies. Instead of just starring at a lobby screen you meet up in an Inn. You can chat, refit your heroes, and do crafting/forging while you wait for the next round to start. It's a nice touch.

-Sound and music is really good too. Standard medieval/dark orchestral pieces but well done. Sound effects are meaty, and there's a good amount of atmospheric stuff like crows, special rats having unique sfx to help warn players, chunky battle sounds (clanging, chopping, etc). They use music/sfx well for the dynamic aspecs of the game too, like before a rat horde comes (which is directed by the game) you hear rat horns and shouting, or if a patrol is nearby you can hear them marching in heavy armor. Good stuff.

-Gameplay is well done. There's a nice bunch of heroes to choose from, and each offers different styles of play and even have a couple ways too play unto themselves. The fighting is pretty simple mechanically, you have quick attacks, charge attacks, blocking, and a ranged weapon. It's starts to open up after you get more weapons from beating levels though, so the empire soldier for instance can go board and sword, or two handed, or even after you get some nice ranged. Different weapons have different strengths and weaknesses. Hammers can pierce heavy armor better, two handed better dmg, taking a shield allows you to tank, etc. It's not just how you will play individually, though, it all combines to the group. So if I go sword and board I can help tank, block off corridors, and create killing fields and protect the back line so they can DPS.

-After you successfully beat a level you get to roll dice for new loot. The base dice have a 2/6 chance to roll towards an item, and for every 'hit' on each dice increases the chance at better loot. You can increase your chances by finding cursed dice during the level (3/6 chance), finding tomes (4/6), or grimoires. The tomes and grimores are risk/reward though, so if you take a tome it takes up a healing slot, and grimores reduces the total health of your party by 33%. It's a great risk/reward system and if you fail the mission, no one gets anything.

-New items come in standard RPG tiers (white, green, blue, gold) each with better stats and abilities. Green and above have special skill slots that can be unlocked at the forge. Stuff like x% to heal y% after killing an enemy, x% to pierce through enemies, etc. I haven't seen many yet though because it's difficult to get higher end gear, at least initially. I have started to find some good stuff though, like a repeater rifle that is fast and has pierce...def has a nice effect in your combat effectiveness and how you play the game. There's also hats and trinkets, but I haven't found any yet.

-At the forge you can break down items for crafting materials used to upgrade items. You can also trade in 5 items of the same quality for a random item of 1 tier higher quality.

-The game is difficult just FYI, which is good, can be frustrating since it is MP and requires good team work. Higher difficulty levels give better base chances for loot, but unlike a lot of game they are seriously harder and require team work and people not doing stupid shit. Couple that with the fact if you fail the mission no one gets any items, it can be frustrating. The game is new and in beta, so it's kinda expected, but it is annoying to join a hard difficulty session only to find a bunch of level 0 characters...if you see that just leave you'll waste your time. That said, the game really shines when you are playing on the higher difficulty levels, people are coordinating well, and communicating. Even with a good group the game will throw some crazy situations at you so you will still have very tense moments.

Overall? I'm really enjoying it. It feels a lot like L4D mashed together with Chivalry + a little Diablo for the item hunt.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
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Messages
1,866,684
Also $20 on GMG with GMGMID-SEASON-25PERC voucher code in case the Nuuvem them doesn't work.
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
13,465
Overview trailer. Way more interesting than the lame class trailers.

 
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sser

Arcane
Developer
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1,866,684

Fixed it for ya.


Edit: just noticed this game was developed by FatShark. They made the really stupidly underrated Lead & Gold game. Maybe this one will help them get noticed since L&G fell flat.
 
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Saark

Arcane
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Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,228
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Played a little the last couple of days, so far it it is surprisingly fun even without playing with 3 people you know. Seeing how even hard is already sufficiently difficult for most random groups I ran with, having 2 more difficulty levels seems almost excessive at this point.

Item progression is a little random, since you have 5 classes with 2 weaponslots each, trinkets aswell as hats and most weaponslots have 3 different types of weapon that you can use. 1 Item per 20-30min map makes it hard to get an item that you actually "need". So far there's only 3 maps that are playable, out of 13 that will be available at release (23rd). Some of the maps seem to be quite a lot shorter than others, ranging from 10minute skirmishes to some that will be almost an hour long.

The 'elite' mobs are punishing as hell, trying to go ahead by yourself or falling back because you tried to heal up with noone to cover your ass will get you killed more quickly than you think. Ratogres are menacing due to their large hp pool and damage potential, but by themself every type is easy to deal with since you can block most of their damage. But having a gutter runner constantly down one of your people while you fight it, 20 clan/slave rats that try to surround you aswell as a packmaster that drags one of you into these groups is really damn hard to deal with. And that is without a ratling gunner or a globadier throwing shit at you from afar constantly. The harder the difficulty, the more of these will appear simultaneously which offers a nice increase in difficulty that isn't just "enemies require more hits to kill/deal more damage".

They also managed to avoid the classic "hump the corner" strategies for the most part since the enemies will usually come from above/beyond the ground and there's nothing more devastating to that strategy than having a stormvermin appear amidst you that you cannot stun or kill quickly enough.

Oh, and friendly fire is an issue once you play on hard or nightmare/cataclysm, so having a bright wizard lob fireballs or overcharge right next to you can put quite a strain on your friendship.

I'm looking forward to the future development of the game, since they announced more classes/maps in the future available through payed aswell as free DLC. Since it's the End Times we can expect pretty much any faction as "playable" other than chaos and maybe chaos dwarves. Here's to they also add new enemy types once in a while, I'm hoping for some skaven that Papa Nurgle got his hands on to.
 
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BlackAdderBG

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They will have big problem with "no loot if you wipe" on these long maps.It's counter to the whole design for the progression and difficulty.Also some of the monsters are not tuned ,like spawning two Ratling Gunners in open location or 6 Stormvermins on top of each other behind you that onehsot anyone no matter blocking.That kind of bad RGN is pretty annoying.
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,228
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Well, ratling gunners haven't been an issue for me yet. As long as you have a dworf or empire soldier with a shield, they can block an entire barrage without taking damage while you shoot them down.

Stormvermin usually spawn by themself or with one friend, having 6+ sounds like a stormvermin patrol to me. We usually dodge those unless we have 2+ grenades to blow them up immediately. It helps to have someone in the party who can burst down a stormvermin quickly though, when I play witchhunter I make sure to carry the repeater with me for that very reason. One charged shot (which fires all 8 shots at once) takes care of a stormvermin on normal and hard.

The whole no-loot on wipe thing does seem problematic at first, but with 5 difficulty levels I have to admit that you can just go down in difficulty to avoid that from happening. It's not like the loot is that much worse, especially with tomes and grimoires massively boosting the amount of successful die rolls.
When you wipe on hard you just start playing normal with 3tomes and 2 grimoires, its still easier than playing on hard without grimoires/tomes.
 

Renevent

Cipher
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
925
I'm not sure how I feel about the no loot thing myself...I don't think it's a bad mechanic and I actually think it encourages people to actually play better since playing as a team is required at higher levels...and no win = no loot. Also, at least what I've seen so far, loot isn't even that much of a determining factor for success anyways. Individually I'd estimate that loot is maybe a 15% (at least up to blue quality) improvement of character power, so it's more a 'force multiplier' in a group. The game on nightmare is freaking hard, and even when I was playing with dudes decked out in oranges, and working as a team, we only won 1 out of 4 games last night. Basically skill and team work matters much more than loot in Vermintide.

I will say...I kinda hope I do eventually find some loot that does make the game somewhat easier lol...I'm old and I have to admit I don't have patience to constantly loose matches and not get teh awesome loots! I haven't even seen legendary equipment yet, much less the red level stuff which is even better. I think the game is fundamentally fun to play and I enjoy yet on those merits, but I'd be lying if I said one of my primary motivating factors was getting phat lootz.
 

BlackAdderBG

Arcane
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The problem is loot will be the big factor incentivizing people to log in after playing all maps a lot,duh.With how static they are so far it's the only reason to run them.Combat is nothing special and melee is nowhere near good enough on it's own (like in Chivalry) to sustain interest.Big issue is not that it's hard,but the RNG that spawns Special foes,you can loose even if you are pro360mlg knowing game and map's ins and outs and you play in teamspeak group of friends.With bad spawn is gg you wasted half an hour.
 

Renevent

Cipher
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
925
I disagree, the combat is fun on it's own. It's not a complex as Chivarly but you're also not fighting small groups....you are fighting giant hordes of enemies. Vermintide also has a greater variety of enemies and throws more varied scenarios at you especially on higher difficulties.
 

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