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RTS Wargame: Red Dragon
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Corporate_Jew_Master
Arcane
Nips, Kwans, Somalis, none can stand against the power of WhiskeyWilk.
JohnTheRevelator
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2011
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- 1,160
http://www.wargame-rd.com/en/news/3...ame-with-the-free-dlc-the-millionth-mile.html
New DLC is out, Potato even stronker. Apparently it also comes with some serious balance tweaks, like making tanks with autoloader actually work like tanks with autoloader. Also land based anti ship missiles for both sides.
New DLC is out, Potato even stronker. Apparently it also comes with some serious balance tweaks, like making tanks with autoloader actually work like tanks with autoloader. Also land based anti ship missiles for both sides.
JohnTheRevelator
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2011
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- 1,160
There is quite a few new units, though I'm not exactly sure why only Best Germany got 90 line infantry. WILK enthusiasts will be very happy to know that they not only have another (upgraded) WILK variant but also even more upgraded final product of this program:
Funny thing is this isn't even best tank NSWP can field now
Yes that's an autocannon. Another very cool addition I didn't screenshot is Czech T-55 Dyna, it's like 65 points and comes with 4 Arkan ATGM's. Range? 2800m. 21 AP too. Just park supply truck in vicinity and you're good.
Czech's get Dana upgrade. If we are to believe armory stats it essentially is armored (slightly slower) Ceasar.
Potato get's cluster MLRS, note rate of fire and amount of rockets, could be useful. Germoney also gets Uragan.
New Hind variant with AA missiles and upgraded Kokon.
Could be great for heli rush.
Finally new Potato SAM. As a side note all big SAM's like Buk's KUB's etc. are HE 9 now(not sure if it's from earlier patch or whatever though). Balance wise I also noticed SPAAG's like Tunguska (Germany gets it too) and Shilka got a lot deadlier. Also Mig-29 for everyone! (in NSWP)
Ofc there is a lot more new units, full list here: http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=155&t=47012
Funny thing is this isn't even best tank NSWP can field now
Yes that's an autocannon. Another very cool addition I didn't screenshot is Czech T-55 Dyna, it's like 65 points and comes with 4 Arkan ATGM's. Range? 2800m. 21 AP too. Just park supply truck in vicinity and you're good.
Czech's get Dana upgrade. If we are to believe armory stats it essentially is armored (slightly slower) Ceasar.
Potato get's cluster MLRS, note rate of fire and amount of rockets, could be useful. Germoney also gets Uragan.
New Hind variant with AA missiles and upgraded Kokon.
Could be great for heli rush.
Finally new Potato SAM. As a side note all big SAM's like Buk's KUB's etc. are HE 9 now(not sure if it's from earlier patch or whatever though). Balance wise I also noticed SPAAG's like Tunguska (Germany gets it too) and Shilka got a lot deadlier. Also Mig-29 for everyone! (in NSWP)
Ofc there is a lot more new units, full list here: http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=155&t=47012
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It's all fairly fappable.
KoolNoodles
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2012
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- 3,545
So uhh, how is it compared to W:AB? Because I thought they had a lot of issues coming out of the gate so I steered clear.
It's unsurprisingly better.
JohnTheRevelator
Arcane
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- 1,160
I guess it's better, it's not like AB didn't have issues and dominant strategies that make no sense in reality. Anyway, SPAAG's are very much OP right now (well at least it's better meta than "Who needs a BUK anyway?" manpad one), non F&F AT missiles are borked right now (missiles roll to hit several times and will literally go out of their way to miss target, basically someone at Eugen fucked up and randomly changed stat).
Even though they improved infantry play a lot by removing damage multiplier I'm still not liking it. They really should standardize MG stats, modelling differences between M60 and Minimi at this scale is pointless and they aren't doing such a great job at it anyway, MG3 shouldn't be that much better than PKM. See infantry game kinda operates like soldiers are literally just standing there in circles, so MG can mow down one soldier after another with downtime just for reloading, same with aoe really, single tank shell will kill multiple soldiers when in reality they would be spread out to avoid just that. Generally I feel troops die way too fast, especially outside of buildings (then again I don't think AB was any better here). Forests aren't safe at all, pair of SPAAG's will kill most stuff before they can fire their rpg's.
Keep in mind I play this very little, essentially I follow development on their forums, play few test games against AI after patch etc. so I can't claim my observations are sure to be correct. Generally I'd say it's AB 1.5. Buncha new units and balance patches. It's pretty disappointing in this sense, it's not entirely new game, just more of the same.
Even though they improved infantry play a lot by removing damage multiplier I'm still not liking it. They really should standardize MG stats, modelling differences between M60 and Minimi at this scale is pointless and they aren't doing such a great job at it anyway, MG3 shouldn't be that much better than PKM. See infantry game kinda operates like soldiers are literally just standing there in circles, so MG can mow down one soldier after another with downtime just for reloading, same with aoe really, single tank shell will kill multiple soldiers when in reality they would be spread out to avoid just that. Generally I feel troops die way too fast, especially outside of buildings (then again I don't think AB was any better here). Forests aren't safe at all, pair of SPAAG's will kill most stuff before they can fire their rpg's.
Keep in mind I play this very little, essentially I follow development on their forums, play few test games against AI after patch etc. so I can't claim my observations are sure to be correct. Generally I'd say it's AB 1.5. Buncha new units and balance patches. It's pretty disappointing in this sense, it's not entirely new game, just more of the same.
At least the Air battle isn't retarded anymore. Planes are in a good place now. Unlike ships. Those suck.
Anything with an autocannon is pretty powerful right now, as they reworked how they fast they shoot. Ships suck, but what's new there. Infantry has been better since they removed the hidden damage bonuses to training. M60 and PKM aren't trash tier MGs anymore.
I still don't think it's as good, balance wise, as ALB was after the last patch, but it is getting there. A lot of point re-balances were needed and done, along with some availability tweaks too. All-in-all, it's moving in the right direction.
I still don't think it's as good, balance wise, as ALB was after the last patch, but it is getting there. A lot of point re-balances were needed and done, along with some availability tweaks too. All-in-all, it's moving in the right direction.
KoolNoodles
Arcane
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Alright, thanks for the replies on that front. Looks like I'll wait a bit and stick to ALB.
The new DLC is available if you turn on beta updates. Bunch of new units for Scandinavia (desperately needed post-1985 units). Did Eugen finally fix the weird veterancy boosts or is the game still plagued by hidden stats? I rolled a 5x scandi deck 5v5 yesterday and it was pretty fun. But I felt like I had no clue what I was doing half the time. (Except whenever my Kgl. Livgarde and Jægers blew up potato tanks worth 3-4x their point cost).
I checked out ALB too, but it looks like multiplayer is pretty much dead there.
I checked out ALB too, but it looks like multiplayer is pretty much dead there.
So Act of Aggression is such a roaring success Eugen has decided to release new maps for Wargame Red Dragon instead
Well, "new" is a relative term. They're Wargame: Airland Battle maps redone for the Red Dragon assets. I don't care, so long as I get my Highway to Oslo redux and Stromsund redux. (And maybe Gjoll Redux... I don't play 10v10 much). There's no set date on when they'll be released. "Soon™" is the official word.
Balance is pretty good now. The hidden veterancy bonuses for infantry were removed a while back. (as far as I'm aware. It's just a +accuracy bonus now. No more SAS 1-shotting planes with blowpipes). The last free expansion added some neat coalitions and units for BLUFOR. The game is mostly just missing some more maps - especially good ones for 1v1. Hopefully the touted map expansion will fix that.
If somemone wants to fite me or bro-op vs randoms or AI, lemme know. Undead Phoenix isn't available nearly enough to sate my ravenous hunger for spamming WILKs and STRV 103Ds
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Corporate_Jew_Master
Arcane
omega21
Arcane
DED
GAEM
semi-realistic strategy game with budding community killed by "tactical" DOTA-esque gameplay and a rehash of generals clone
an allegory for the industry
GAEM
semi-realistic strategy game with budding community killed by "tactical" DOTA-esque gameplay and a rehash of generals clone
an allegory for the industry
Corporate_Jew_Master
Arcane
that's my kind of game
Also, first "new" maps revealed:
Highway (Small)
Highway (large)
Three Mile Island (Regular)
Three Mile Island (Alternate starts)
On the Eugen forums, they're askinf for localizations fo rmap names. So that gives an idea how many maps they're planning to port:
Highway (Small)
Highway (large)
Three Mile Island (Regular)
Three Mile Island (Alternate starts)
On the Eugen forums, they're askinf for localizations fo rmap names. So that gives an idea how many maps they're planning to port:
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Corporate_Jew_Master
Arcane
ulm, message me on steam pls
More maps in the pipeline. Reshuffling sectors on existing maps:
Alternate Strait to the point. Looks like it'll have more action than the stalemate we usually see across the river. I'm not sold on Alpha and November. They look too easy to defend for their point value. I'd have foregone them entirely and bumped the value of the other neutral sectors by 1 point each.
Alternate Tough Jungle. Looks like a moshpit in the middle.
Rotated Back to Inchon... Eh. Not too psyched about that one
The next maps slated for a remake after Highway and 3 Mile Island are Copenhagen, Hamburger Hill and Fulda Gap in that order.
Funny how none of the maps have naval deployment routes. I guess Eugen have completely given up on ships.
Alternate Strait to the point. Looks like it'll have more action than the stalemate we usually see across the river. I'm not sold on Alpha and November. They look too easy to defend for their point value. I'd have foregone them entirely and bumped the value of the other neutral sectors by 1 point each.
Alternate Tough Jungle. Looks like a moshpit in the middle.
Rotated Back to Inchon... Eh. Not too psyched about that one
The next maps slated for a remake after Highway and 3 Mile Island are Copenhagen, Hamburger Hill and Fulda Gap in that order.
Funny how none of the maps have naval deployment routes. I guess Eugen have completely given up on ships.
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Corporate_Jew_Master Mortmal omega21 raw Chef_Hathaway Undead Phoenix
ITZ COMING
No three mile island or Back to Inchon variation yet. They'll come in th enext map patch.
Highway small/large, green mile and Yulchanok pass (rotated strait to the point) posted above plus:
ITZ COMING
No three mile island or Back to Inchon variation yet. They'll come in th enext map patch.
Highway small/large, green mile and Yulchanok pass (rotated strait to the point) posted above plus:
So the new 1v1 maps are pretty good.
Paddy field is kind of unbalanced in that "Blue side" starting sector has towns, forests and sits on a hill whereas "red side" is an open field with a few hedgerows. Mud fight is much better (although "blue side" start sector again has a slight advantage in the river covering its rear. Makes it harder to drop in commandoes to hunt CV/arty).
That aside, both maps bring something that 1v1 maps have been missing. Open sectors with few/no buildings and large open fields.
Mud fight has all the command sectors fairly open, with small towns outside the sectors being highly contested to get a vantage point.
Paddy field has 2 rows of sectors. One has a few treelines and single house,s while the other has dense town/forest cover all the way.
What this achieves in reality is that mechanized decks are no longer king. There are sectors that simply cannot be held with infantry alone. The fighting (especially in paddy field) has been bloody as me and a mate have been playing 1v1 - 3k points + total destruction + no time limit. And it was exactly the shot in the arm red dragon needed.
I may do a battle report or two if I have a few hours to spare. Many Danskjävlar were blown up by superiour Volvo tanks after I was forced to build an all-swedish deck by my mate.
Now give us bro-op/competitive campaigns a la ALB plz.
Paddy field is kind of unbalanced in that "Blue side" starting sector has towns, forests and sits on a hill whereas "red side" is an open field with a few hedgerows. Mud fight is much better (although "blue side" start sector again has a slight advantage in the river covering its rear. Makes it harder to drop in commandoes to hunt CV/arty).
That aside, both maps bring something that 1v1 maps have been missing. Open sectors with few/no buildings and large open fields.
Mud fight has all the command sectors fairly open, with small towns outside the sectors being highly contested to get a vantage point.
Paddy field has 2 rows of sectors. One has a few treelines and single house,s while the other has dense town/forest cover all the way.
What this achieves in reality is that mechanized decks are no longer king. There are sectors that simply cannot be held with infantry alone. The fighting (especially in paddy field) has been bloody as me and a mate have been playing 1v1 - 3k points + total destruction + no time limit. And it was exactly the shot in the arm red dragon needed.
I may do a battle report or two if I have a few hours to spare. Many Danskjävlar were blown up by superiour Volvo tanks after I was forced to build an all-swedish deck by my mate.
Now give us bro-op/competitive campaigns a la ALB plz.
I just wish they had rolled with the mechanics they had at the end of ALB, everything is so boring now.
It's either general or armored decks, pump out as many tier 1/1.5 tanks as possible, spam SEAD fighter bombers, and run with SF/shock troops. All the other units are just chaff.
There is rarely variety, the meta is stale, and most maps are still chokepoint fests.
New maps are helping, but there are too few of them. Just import all the EE maps and be done with it. I want Hamburger Hill back ffs.
I still love this game series, don't take this the wrong way, and I just want it to be better. I still have hope, I just want it to be as fun as ALB in its heydey.
Edit: These are mostly reflections from 3v3/4v4, 1v1/2v2 may be a little different. I'm not even gonna broach the retardation that is 10v10.
It's either general or armored decks, pump out as many tier 1/1.5 tanks as possible, spam SEAD fighter bombers, and run with SF/shock troops. All the other units are just chaff.
There is rarely variety, the meta is stale, and most maps are still chokepoint fests.
New maps are helping, but there are too few of them. Just import all the EE maps and be done with it. I want Hamburger Hill back ffs.
I still love this game series, don't take this the wrong way, and I just want it to be better. I still have hope, I just want it to be as fun as ALB in its heydey.
Edit: These are mostly reflections from 3v3/4v4, 1v1/2v2 may be a little different. I'm not even gonna broach the retardation that is 10v10.
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Chef_Hathaway
They've confirmed 3 mile island (pictured a few posts above) and Hamburger hill as being in the pipeline. Along with reworks of existing maps to reshuffle sectors or turning a subsection of a large map into 1v1/2v2.
Also, in my experience (mostly 1v1 or 2v2), it's all about mechanized/motorized decks due to the abundance of towns in CP sectors. A handful of regular infantry with decent AT vearpons will hold a chokepoint just fine. SF are mostly for forest shenanigans.
Also, for all RDs faults, I actually think the introduction of ECM made planes far more interesting. In ALB, you never deployed anything but SEAD until you were 110% sure all AA in an area was gone. Nowadays, you can get away with deploying planes to support an advance. I've actually had some success running airborne now, although it does make it a lot more risky to deploy infantry. Especially as people who see airborne in the lobby are prone to rushing anti-helo AA. I think the game would be better off if you couldn't see the deck type (nation is OK, just not specialization) of the opposing team.
They've confirmed 3 mile island (pictured a few posts above) and Hamburger hill as being in the pipeline. Along with reworks of existing maps to reshuffle sectors or turning a subsection of a large map into 1v1/2v2.
Also, in my experience (mostly 1v1 or 2v2), it's all about mechanized/motorized decks due to the abundance of towns in CP sectors. A handful of regular infantry with decent AT vearpons will hold a chokepoint just fine. SF are mostly for forest shenanigans.
Also, for all RDs faults, I actually think the introduction of ECM made planes far more interesting. In ALB, you never deployed anything but SEAD until you were 110% sure all AA in an area was gone. Nowadays, you can get away with deploying planes to support an advance. I've actually had some success running airborne now, although it does make it a lot more risky to deploy infantry. Especially as people who see airborne in the lobby are prone to rushing anti-helo AA. I think the game would be better off if you couldn't see the deck type (nation is OK, just not specialization) of the opposing team.
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