Review Visceris strikes again: one review for all 3 NWN games!

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Even in a dungeon crawler - espicially one like TOEE that tries to pretend to be a role-playing game - gameplay is more than combat.

Like what?

Movement (in idnividual areas and overland maps), inventory management, controls, interface control (now how it looks; but how easy it can be manipulated as that effects gameplay), and other less important stuff.

For the record, as far as gameplay goes; I'd rate all of the games you did an 8, or 9 as they are all ahve their strnegths and weakness. Though not mentioned; KOTOR game play would be rated much less than those games with ease so it's not like I agree with the reviewer on his actual score; but once again game play is more than just turn abse combat = 10.

These are extras, assuming that it wasn't fucked up completely, it doesn't affect the gameplay much. Take KOTOR for example, inventory was a mess, controls and interface were so-so, but for me it's not really important. If inventory and controls were absolutely perfect, I'd not give it a higher score. So, back to ToEE, the gameplay revolves around TB combat. That's it. Nothing else. Good: great combat engine, nice selection of feats and skills, good 3E implementation. Bad: Too easy and bugs. The score 10 for Good minus 1 for Bad minus 1 for bugs (they are not game stopping) = solid 8, imo.

TB combat doesn't automatically guarantee 10 as there were games that sucked design-wise like POR2. ToEE on the other hand got it right. As for the games and your rating, I;d say that for gameplay NWN gets 5 (you heard all the reasons before, and we are talking about the OC only), BG2 gets 10 as an adventure game or 7 as an RPG (too linear, being forced to do stuff all the time, the combat alone is too weak, imo), IWD gets 7, and KOTOR gets 8. That sounds about right, if you want me to be more specific just ask

Edit: I thought about it some more, and I'd give KOTOR 7 (minus 1 for bugs), and IWD 8, and I'd like to note that it's very hard to compare apples to oranges, and it's good that the Codex doesn't use ratings.

Bleh. The fact that you give KOTOR a higher gameplay rtaing than NWN OC shows how skewered you are. KOTOR's controls compared to the other games isa wful. Plain, and simple.

Bleh back at you. The controls weren't THAT bad, try Gothic if you want to know how bad it could be. Controls are important in action games because that's where it IS a part of gameplay. In CRPGs bad controls are merely an annoyance. NWN was terrible, KOTOR was ok, rpg-wise, hence the higher score.

Huh? NWN's controls are basically IE; but enhanced due to the quick slots. Tell me ONE thing in either the IE or KOTOR other than being able to control the slaves.. err.. npcs directly that makes the actual game play better? That's almost impossible espicially in KOTOR's case which is pretty much barely accetable, and wouldn't be at all if it wasn't for the things it does do right.

I meant that NWN was mediocre rpg-wise not control-wise. Controls are irrelevant, imo, unless, like I said, they are completely fucked up making a game unplayable.

Wait, I missed this, when was this in NWN?

VD, hello, we *are* talking gameplay so control is releavnt to the discussion.

Imo, controls, just like sound, garphics, colour, even an interface depend entitely on a user and user's characteristics. For example, I didn't find Kotor's controls to be that complicated, it was a bit unusual but hardly more then that, some people complained about ToEE's interface, some people are unable to play games like Geneforge and Teudogar because the graphics bug the hell out of them. Gameplay shouldn't be affected by such things and should stick with concepts, ie. TB combat, choices, consequences of choices, open-ended, linear, multiple paths, etc. These are all things that couldn't be misinterpreted, some people may not like a concept or two (people who don't like TB combat thinking that it's boring), but they are clear on what each represents, unlike controls and graphics. We can actually argue about TB combat and feats implementation, but we can't argue about controls. You say they suck, I say they don't, and that's pretty much all argument. I don't see how holding one of your mouse buttons could be a problem, for you it's an alien concept. Subjective perception is a tricky thing, so let's leave controls out of it.

What ever happened to Visceris?

Whatever happened to that Sol guy?

I hear he's still around.

Really? He should like totally rejoin staff, then it would be like the old days.

Well...it started out amusing, but I think we underestimated what a boring windbag Cleve would eventually become.

Yep. Every single page is full of hideously long posts. It's very TLDR.

I think he's still posting at the Obsidian forums.

Whatever happened to the HONORBLADE?! He has disappeared recently.

He finally turned 40 and has climax now. Mom's basement isn't what it used to be.