Grand Strategy Vicky 2:HoD dev diaries

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

Is there really a point to complaining about different projections of the surface of the sphere onto a rectangle?

Do you even grand strat?

 

[Average Manatee]

3 Moves Ahead had a podcast on Vicky

Not sure I agree with them that Vicky 2 is railroaded. These guys love sandbox games like Civilization so that may explain it.

I'd consider V2 pretty railroaded. Unless you break the infamy limit the world is incredibly static and it takes decades to expand and conquer even a relatively small nation, unless you are one of the majors with special events that let you do it for free. If there was a larger set of generic events or conditions that let you do the same as any nation it would be a lot less railroaded.

Also in case you haven't noticed railroads are god damn everywhere in V2 by the late game.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

eu expert, vic noob: is there a way to actually earn money?
i'd like to start with a minor power, grow some, beat some weak neighbour. simple stuff. but i just can't earn money.

 

[RRRrrr]

Did they finally fix the economy (GPs not going bankrupt all the time) and politics (not accepting peace terms until you've conquered the very last province etc.) Is the retarded infamy system tweaked in any way? Gaining infamy from making a country release a puppet was plain retarded.
I played AHD and some mods, the game was certainly fun but also retarded at times. The diplomacy didn't offer any flexibility whatsoever, you were not able to annex an entire country even if you occupied it, countries were removing millitary access for no reason whatsoever, infamy was lost too slowly, diplomacy didn't allow you to make any economical negotiations etc.

In other words, does this expansion make the game playable and are there any decent mods for the retarded stuff?

 

[Sranchammer]

The expansion along with Pops of Darkness makes it viable, yes.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Did they finally fix the economy (GPs not going bankrupt all the time) and politics (not accepting peace terms until you've conquered the very last province etc.) Is the retarded infamy system tweaked in any way? Gaining infamy from making a country release a puppet was plain retarded.

Well, the economy is considerably better. You can actually prosper survive without massive quantities of domestic coal and timber now! The warscore system was also fixed, you now gain additional warscore from controlling the provinces relevant to the wargoal(s), and the battle score cap was upped from 25 to 50 so you will hit 100 warscore way before you conquer everything (though you still cannot exceed 100 warscore in demands without cheating), and generally state warscore values seem to be calculated with more sanity now (so you don't end up with massively expensive wargoals when against China or Russia).

Infamy system is unchanged though, I still think it's a bit of a shame you can't reduce Infamy by succesfully forcing the release of puppets and new countries (it'd be an excellent addition). Personally I've been considering modding CBs a little and adding varied versions of Acquire State for smaller countries and non-GPs against countries that are large, but it's not an all-consuming issue and can be easily fixed by cheating like a motherfucker if your minor is getting strangled by the system.

One very good new addition though is that in many circumstances GPs can lose cores. For example, if you enforce Potatoland's release from Russia, Russia will automatically lose all the cores there. Same goes for the Ukraine, Belarus, Finland and Baltic states. Similarly, China will lose cores if a sub-state that's been annexed is forced to be released or Hungary gets released from Austria. So far I've noticed that Ottomans will not lose cores in Greece (this might actually be that minors/secondaries don't lose cores, but could be just a special case for Ottoman Greece), and the Kwa doesn't lose cores in Mehico. Overall, this means that states like Hungary or Poland aren't just gobbled up once the 5 years of enforced peace pass because the former master will just declare annexation war with Restore Order CB.

 

[RRRrrr]

[t it's not an all-consuming issue and can be easily fixed by cheating like a motherfucker if your minor is getting strangled by the system.

The thing is I hate cheating. On the other hand, Victoria 2 is too retarded at times and forces you to cheat due to idiotic design. Which is a shame.
I tried to find a mod that addresses infamy's flawed design but I couldn't find anything worthwhile. While PoP does seem to make it somewhat better (from what I've read) it still doesn't allow redeeming infamy quicker or negotiating with GPs not to attack you (remain neutral) during a certain conflict.

Why diplomacy allows so few options in this game is beyond me. Is it because the AI wouldn't be able to deal with it otherwise? Is there a mod that addresses this (adds more diplomatic options)? The international crisis system in the new expansion seems nice but I think it is not enough.

 

[Malakal]

So any reasons you guys think infamy is "flawed" or are you just upset that a minor nation conquering all its neighbours risks the ire of the great powers? Because surely Bulgaria conquering Greece wouldn't cause UK and France to intervene and restore status quo, no sir.

 

[RRRrrr]

So any reasons you guys think infamy is "flawed" or are you just upset that a minor nation conquering all its neighbours risks the ire of the great powers? Because surely Bulgaria conquering Greece wouldn't cause UK and France to intervene and restore status quo, no sir.

It's not that.
Gaining infamy from forcing another nations to release a state doesn't make any sense whatsoever. On the contrary, this should decrease infamy, not increase it.
Also, there are no viable methods to decrease infamy other than waiting, which is retarded.
The casus beli against you when your infamy is too high is not status quo but contain. Status quo would have made a lot more sense. Also, once you accept the peace terms and don't have any army countries are free to attack you with the same casus beli (contain).
Meaning that if Bulgaria annexed Greece they could keep it, they's only have to give up on having an army for a few years. Status quo casus beli would have made so much more sense.
Another thing, why does starting a war in order to return cores/territories taken from you give you infamy? And adding wargoals with more of them gives you even more.


This is why the infamy system is not working for what it was meant to do, it is rather arbitrary and doesn't offer any workarounds. For example, you can't negotiate with GPs to remain neutral when you attack someone-you have to do so blindly and without knowing if anyone would attack you. This is as far from real world diplomacy as it gets. The infamy system just cannot substitute deeper diplomatic options.


If I wanted to annex countries freely I would use a cheat. What I want is to be able to make informed decisions.
Also, in real life you get an ultimatum before someone decalres war on you, not the other way round. PoP mod fixes this but are the guys at Paradox lobotomized or something not to fix this/add a similar system in the game?


EDIT: I will have to look into modding this game. There are a lot of things that could be fixed with some minor and not so minor tweaks. Also, the mobilization system is broken and you can't mobilize hundreds of thousands of people, which is strange. At that time the army was not 95% professional with a few irregulars, ffs.

Also, why is the only way to pass through a foreign territory to ask for millitary access? Why isn't there an option which allows you to pass through territory regardless that might cause war? Instead, you have to declear war, wait until you have casus beli and attack.
There isn't a way to break a peace treaty. Why?

 

[Malakal]

So any reasons you guys think infamy is "flawed" or are you just upset that a minor nation conquering all its neighbours risks the ire of the great powers? Because surely Bulgaria conquering Greece wouldn't cause UK and France to intervene and restore status quo, no sir.

It's not that.
Gaining infamy from forcing another nations to release a state doesn't make any sense whatsoever. On the contrary, this should decrease infamy, not increase it.
Also, there are no viable methods to decrease infamy other than waiting, which is retarded.
The casus beli against you when your infamy is too high is not status quo but contain. Status quo would have made a lot more sense. Also, once you accept the peace terms and don't have any army countries are free to attack you with the same casus beli (contain).
Meaning that if Bulgaria annexed Greece they could keep it, they's only have to give up on having an army for a few years. Status quo casus beli would have made so much more sense.
Another thing, why does starting a war in order to return cores/territories taken from you give you infamy? And adding wargoals with more of them gives you even more.

I can see where you are going with this but cant really agree - because for me infamy is the age old game of maintaining the balance that was played by great powers. Its not about being good or evil, its about getting too powerful too fast and becoming a potential threat. Releasing nations can be see as interfering in the internal affairs of other nations - EXTREMELY dangerous in the setting, age of imperialism with each power having dozens on nationalities under its boot. Why would this decrease infamy? If USA today invaded Spain and released Catalonia you think it would be perceived as a peaceful nation?

Contain doesnt make much sense, that I agree with. Game should keep track of all the conquests happening and reversing them should be a viable war goal of containment wars.

 

[RRRrrr]

I can see where you are going with this but cant really agree - because for me infamy is the age old game of maintaining the balance that was played by great powers. Its not about being good or evil, its about getting too powerful too fast and becoming a potential threat. Releasing nations can be see as interfering in the internal affairs of other nations - EXTREMELY dangerous in the setting, age of imperialism with each power having dozens on nationalities under its boot. Why would this decrease infamy? If USA today invaded Spain and released Catalonia you think it would be perceived as a peaceful nation?

This is true in some cases but not always. Liberating a nation that has recently been annexed/pupeted can't be a bad thing. If Spain invaded Portugal and the USA interfered it wouldn't be viewed as an act of aggression.
Also, if you fight to release a country that has nationalistic riots it shouldn't give you infamy. At least it should give you a casus beli right away.

 

[XenomorphII]

As far as infamy goes, if you read it as the how much other powers think you are rocking the boat and shifting the balance of power, then it makes a lot more sense. Releasing puppets from somebody like Russia is definitely going to shift the balance of power a rather large amount (releasing and puppeting Ukraine can devastate Russia). Contain is stupid though.

Pretty sure the other powers would be quite concerned that the US decided to jump into European politics and free some people that it felt needed it. Though with the crisis system (when Greece doesn't hog it) you can have powers coming in and saying give it up or else. If you really want to protect a country sphere them or at least get them to Friendly and join in if things go bad for them. Don't wait until after the fact.

 

[Merkwürdigliebe]

I don't think infamy is a bad idea, however it does require some tweaking to get it to work well instead of the current binary state were they either don't give a fuck about you, but go 0,1 over the limit and you're Satan in the flesh. For example if one worked on the idea of the threat the nation posses to other nations instead of purely infamy. The more you conquer the higher your threat naturally as in infamy, but add in other factors as well. Other things that could be taken into consideration could be the states relative military strenght, amount of non cores possessed, does the state hold your cores?, is the state an ally?, distance - distant states are less worrying than a neighbor, government type, religion - muslims are more threatening than an other Christian state etc.

If you combine that with a system of alliances with the specific purpose of countering high threat states, their creation could function similarly to factions in CK2. For example France is big and strong and has recently expanded by taking Elssas-Lothringen from the Empire. This causes nearby states like Spain Austria and UK to feel threatened by France and join the French containment coalition, while for example Russia doesn't care because it is so far away. In the event that France attacks against any of these states the coalition kicks in and they all side in a war vs France, though unlike a regular alliance they have no obligations towards each other in any other cases. If Frances threat continues to rise it could even get to the point were the coalition issues an ultimatum similar to a crisis in HOD, and if France does not comply with demands, say the return of a states rightful territory or the release of a conquered state, then it will lead to war.
Could use some work, but I think the basic idea is solid, to create a gradual increase in the amount of hostility in the world towards your expansionism and imperialism. Though the relations system in EUIV might provide pretty much that if I understand it correctly, which could be very nice if done well.

End of my inane ramblings on game mechanics.

 

[RRRrrr]

Yes, distance and how much you actually threaten the other nations should be taken into consideration. I definitely agree that having an exact number threshold is not at all realistic and that there should be far, far more variables.

 

[Sranchammer]

When the My Little Ponies mod has more views than the Pop Demand Mod, you know your consumer base is fucked.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

The largest part of the more recent paradox fanbase came from Reddit, so it is to be expected. You can draw many conclusions from the contents of EU3 and Vicky 2 modding as compared to the previous titles.

When alt history and improvement mods aimed at making the game reasonably harder and more realistic are being replaced by pony mods and Death n Taxes popamole (ROMAN RESTORATION CASUS BELLI FROM TERRA TO CADIA) you know you are dealing with a whole new crowd.

 

[ohWOW]

Post a link to that glorious ponies mod. Now.

 

[Sranchammer]

Post a link to that glorious ponies mod. Now.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...nies!-v2.0&s=596c4a1427854065d75b8dce22727405

Ponies? Ponies!
Equestria in Victoria II

 

[ohWOW]

This is too fucking good to be real.

Also, the communists flag, the fuck? Fucking really? So what's the hammer still doing there, how them ponies operate hammers?

 

[XenomorphII]

When the My Little Ponies mod has more views than the Pop Demand Mod, you know your consumer base is fucked.

To be fair, it is a hard thing to see and not to click on and just look at it.

 

[Whisky]

Oh my god, the Pony mod has been updated to HoD. I played it once, because someone at my school said he started playing Vicky2, just so that he could play a Pony strategy game. He bought Vicky2, the dodgiest of the 4 main Paradox games, just so that he could play a Pony mod. Last I heard, he never played Vanilla.

It's terrible in design too. It doesn't use the mod folder, so you can't easily switch out of it.

Has anyone had any trouble with the new version of POP Demand? I'm getting a lot of crashes early on and the speed of the game is much slower.

 

[Sranchammer]

The current version had a folder merge problem resulting in two PDM folders. Nevertheless, it'd be best to wait for the next one as there are issues with techs. Pop promotion is out of whack, as well.

 

[Whisky]

Yeah, gotta wait. Even without the crashes, there's some gamebreaking bugs. Namely, I can't get any Clerks or Capitalists in provinces that don't already have them, focus or no focus. This causes problems.

 

[Kattze]

Oh my god, the Pony mod has been updated to HoD. I played it once, because someone at my school said he started playing Vicky2, just so that he could play a Pony strategy game. He bought Vicky2, the dodgiest of the 4 main Paradox games, just so that he could play a Pony mod. Last I heard, he never played Vanilla.

It's terrible in design too. It doesn't use the mod folder, so you can't easily switch out of it.

Has anyone had any trouble with the new version of POP Demand? I'm getting a lot of crashes early on and the speed of the game is much slower.

 

[Whisky]

What can change the nature of a brony?