Development Info Van Buren tech demo

[Fez]

I prefer only a line or two to be voiced for the most part. As Bryce indicated it ends up trailing behind the reading rate of the average person, so you can finish a paragraph long before the voice actor has. It either bores or frustrates if you are forced to wait. Maybe the odd monologue for dramatic or story purposes, but I don't want to hear every bit of dialogue, especially the more inane and boring stuff. A BG style "hello" and then into the text will do for most NPCs.

 

[stargelman]

Even without that there is no need to calculate wind, no need to calculate the effects of gravity. you can truly just look in the sites and fire and hit every time.

And what if there's solar flares? What if the air is charged with large quantities of electromagnetic interference (think YK42B pulse rifle)? What if there are gammaray emitting pulsating microsingularities nearby? You have to know what to do in those situations, man!

 

[Surgey]

So you're suggesting a use-based skill system like TES for Guns? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
And yes, missing with a laser doesn't really make sense.

Yes it does. You still have to point and click like a pistol.

 

[Lumpy]

And asides from Parkinson's Disease, how exactly is that difficult?

 

[Jim Kata]

I can see missing, but like lumpy said, what is difficult enough about it to warrant an actual skill?

Seems pretty stupid to me.

Take silent storm, for instance. They have a shooting skill, a burst skill, and a sniping skill. Now these skills all make perfect sense. If you are good at aiming in general then you should not go from a sniper rifle to a laser rifle and become unable to ever make a shot!

In silent storm, sniping doesn't cover 'shotting with a sniper rifle' but instead covers aiming that can span multiple rounds - the better you are with this skill the more of a bonus to hit you can get on a target for each AP spent aiming, but it's still based on your basic 'shooting' skill.

 

[Lumpy]

As for aimed shots, I find them unnecessary as a special category. I think all shots should be aimed at a certain point in the body. The game calculates where the bullet will actually hit based on choosing randomly from an area around the targeted point. The area is smaller the greater the skill and the more time you spend aiming.
So you can aim for the head and hit the arm, the torso, or aim for the groin and hit a leg. No more hit in the eyes/miss completely.

 

[Spazmo]

I can see missing, but like lumpy said, what is difficult enough about it to warrant an actual skill?

Actually, it's not just a question of accuracy with the weapon, it's also a matter of weapon maintenance. Of course, you could argue that aspect of it should be lumped into repair, making that skill more useful and forcing gunplay characters to diversify a little bit, but if you check the skill cards from FO1, I think that's the argument used.

 

[Lumpy]

I can see missing, but like lumpy said, what is difficult enough about it to warrant an actual skill?

Actually, it's not just a question of accuracy with the weapon, it's also a matter of weapon maintenance. Of course, you could argue that aspect of it should be lumped into repair, making that skill more useful and forcing gunplay characters to diversify a little bit, but if you check the skill cards from FO1, I think that's the argument used.

So what does maintenance have to do with a brand new, fully loaded brotherhood gun?

 

[Spazmo]

Making sure it doesn't break down when a grain of sand gets into the lens or something? It doesn't matter how new anything is, it still needs maintenance, like cleaning, for instance. Consider troops in modern armies. They're very well trained in assembling and disassembling their weapons, cleaning them, taking care of them, etc., but for all that they can't necessarily repair an engine or anything.

 

[Callaxes]

If anything, gunbattles need to be placed at father distances, I don't see the logic in bringing a sniper rifle to a gunfight happing in small bar. Shooting a person 800 yards away... now that requires 200 skill points, of course you can make an interface that helps you target the enemies alot faster, rather then moving the screen for couple of seconds to find the son of a bicth.

And what the fuck was up with sequence in both Fallouts, the statistic hardly ever came in handy, maybe if there were cowboy gun drawls I would think of investing in the statistic, but it was impossible to control it and most of the time you could just hide behind a wall near the enemy and combat mode before he even saw you.

Edit: SPAAAAAAAAARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

 

[Jim Kata]

I can see missing, but like lumpy said, what is difficult enough about it to warrant an actual skill?

Actually, it's not just a question of accuracy with the weapon, it's also a matter of weapon maintenance. Of course, you could argue that aspect of it should be lumped into repair, making that skill more useful and forcing gunplay characters to diversify a little bit, but if you check the skill cards from FO1, I think that's the argument used.

If this were shown by the occasional jam,t hat makes sense, but having it equate to range is too much of an abstraction, and for no reason.

 

[Jim Kata]

As for aimed shots, I find them unnecessary as a special category. I think all shots should be aimed at a certain point in the body. The game calculates where the bullet will actually hit based on choosing randomly from an area around the targeted point. The area is smaller the greater the skill and the more time you spend aiming.
So you can aim for the head and hit the arm, the torso, or aim for the groin and hit a leg. No more hit in the eyes/miss completely.

It's assumed to be aimed at the chest if not otherwise specified. Other areas can do more damage or have other effects, but would make it much more likely to hit. You won't hit someone's head easily, much less their knee, much less shoot the gun out of their hand.

 

[Spazmo]

If this were shown by the occasional jam,t hat makes sense, but having it equate to range is too much of an abstraction, and for no reason.

Actually, guns in Fallout did occasionally jam, as this was one effect of critical misses in combat, along with dropping your weapon, hitting the wrong target and simple weapon explosion. I can't recall if a low weapon skill affected your chance of a critical miss or if it was just the luck stat, though. As you say, it would be better if high weapon skill would reduce the change of jamming and so on.

As for long range combat, well, I hate to admit it, but this is one place where an isometric viewpoint has drawbacks (at least at the kind of scale one expects from an RPG). Unless a game implements something like Supreme Commander, where you can zoom out as far as you like? Actually it'd be pretty neat to simply have the combat area zoom out when you're using longer range weapons, particularly if you've got a sniper rifle and you've taken the time to deploy its tripod etc.

 

[stargelman]

Ok, a serious reply for once.

Jimbo, your argument concerning wind and gravity are of great importance for anyone who's firing a rifle. Only provided however that the target is some distance away, for example when using a sniper rifle to fire at someome several hundred feet away. You never had such distances in Fallout.

Lumpy, If you miss the eyes in FO1+2, there's still a chance you hit the head or some other body part - that is in the rare cases when you do not get a critical when aiming for the eye and actually hitting. It happens, just usually not when you're actually any good with your weapon.

And what I think you're completely forgetting about here while concerning yourself with physics and reality is that there's another important aspect to consider, one of gameplay. Sure, you could unite all weapons under a single skill, but then that skill is entirely meaningless because you'll pick it anyway. Separating weapons into different skills means that you usually won't become a jack of all weapon skills. You have to make a choice. And at least to me, that adds to the games replayability. Granted, it's not the biggest or most important choice, but still.

 

[Jim Kata]

If this were shown by the occasional jam,t hat makes sense, but having it equate to range is too much of an abstraction, and for no reason.

Actually, guns in Fallout did occasionally jam, as this was one effect of critical misses in combat, along with dropping your weapon, hitting the wrong target and simple weapon explosion. I can't recall if a low weapon skill affected your chance of a critical miss or if it was just the luck stat, though. As you say, it would be better if high weapon skill would reduce the change of jamming and so on.

As for long range combat, well, I hate to admit it, but this is one place where an isometric viewpoint has drawbacks (at least at the kind of scale one expects from an RPG). Unless a game implements something like Supreme Commander, where you can zoom out as far as you like? Actually it'd be pretty neat to simply have the combat area zoom out when you're using longer range weapons, particularly if you've got a sniper rifle and you've taken the time to deploy its tripod etc.

Again, it is done very well in silent storm. The SS interface could be cleaner, but it does a tremendous job for tactical combat, overall. It's even better than xcom in some ways, though not as polished or well done.

 

[Jim Kata]

Ok, a serious reply for once.

Jimbo, your argument concerning wind and gravity are of great importance for anyone who's firing a rifle. Only provided however that the target is some distance away, for example when using a sniper rifle to fire at someome several hundred feet away. You never had such distances in Fallout.

Lumpy, If you miss the eyes in FO1+2, there's still a chance you hit the head or some other body part - that is in the rare cases when you do not get a critical when aiming for the eye and actually hitting. It happens, just usually not when you're actually any good with your weapon.

And what I think you're completely forgetting about here while concerning yourself with physics and reality is that there's another important aspect to consider, one of gameplay. Sure, you could unite all weapons under a single skill, but then that skill is entirely meaningless because you'll pick it anyway. Separating weapons into different skills means that you usually won't become a jack of all weapon skills. You have to make a choice. And at least to me, that adds to the games replayability. Granted, it's not the biggest or most important choice, but still.

First off the distances in fallout are not to scale or else the range of a sniper rifle would be 110 feet.

Your skill system should not be so artificial as to do stupid things that make no sense for no reason. Again, in Silent Storm the gameplay is much more complex, yet they do not have these artificial divisions.