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Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
You have to go through the Cappadocian monastery and the Nosferatu Warrens and a fair part of the Tremere chantry as well before you even get Theft of Vitae.

Cappadocian monastery is pretty easy save for Mercurio (who I think you can't feed kill?), Nosferatu Warrens has 2-3 hard fights (Elders ambush in the tunnel, Othelios and maybe Vaclav) and you mow down the rest (especially those skinny neonates that are vulnerable to decapitation), ordinary Tremeres are pathetic in melee and you can easily dodge their fireballs with celerity etc.

Keeping in mind that it's an opportunity cost, not spending XP on Feed allows you to pump Celerity, Potence and STR/DEX which makes you characters more efficient melee killing machines.

Feed killing the enemy is one of the most secure and easy ways, resource-efficient and perhaps it even saves time in the end not having to heal up as much etc. I took 31 hours to finish the game and I literally killed every single mob. Of course it feels slow and in modern times foes have a way bigger blood pool too but by that time you wouldn't use feed on them anymore but just nuke them.

That's the main problem I have with it I guess, it breaks the flow of the game unlike in Bloodlines where feeding is much faster. Moving around, healing, opening inventory to use potions etc. is dynamic.

Still, I get your point and also using/abusing Feed that much could serve as a nice in-Lore explanation for Christof getting so many new Disciplines, diableriazing an entire Tremere Chantry is bound to have interesting results.

You know what a Tremere Lord does while you try to kill him with feral claws, potence and celerity? Immolate, Call Lightning, Prison of Ice. You know what a Tremere Lord does while you drain him dry? Nothing.

By the time you reach Tremere Lords your coterie is gonna to be pretty powerful, even Tremere Lords just don't last long enough to get many spells off (if at all, you can interrupt their casting) against Potence+Celerity Christof and Celerity+Feral Claws Wilhelm and Erik. Serena can also take them on with Plague Breath though it's harder because she doesn't have Celerity.

The interface truly is bad for managing real-time combat and woefully inadequate for managing an entire party in real-time. The AI sucks balls as well, I've seen Wilhelm expending almost his entire blood pool casting Awe on an enemy who would just resist it. In the end I just enabled only healing and cast other spells manually.

Oh yes, your party members throwing everything they got (including summoning souls and wolves) to take on a few hoppers (those frog-things that Tremere keep as pets) is quite a sight. Sometimes they also waste blood by shooting walls (or other obstacles) targeting the enemy behind it, not to mention how suicidal they are in the Stephansdom mission (I usually just go solo with Christof there).
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
I started this game nao, because of this thread. I did play a bit till the same point i am now, which is basically the same as i'm now some 10 years ago, but quit, because i have allergy for most games with check-point saves only. Now with patch and save anywhere it's okay and i want to continues, but there's something shitty that i don't know if it's a bug or feature. The mines at the start are dark and torch seems to have no effect at all or so miserable it doesn't matter. And i mean, it's totally fucking pitch black and i don't have Riddick eyes. I'm basically pixel hunting my way through now. If this game has a lot of these kinds of totally dark dungeon, i'll probably quit.
One thing i think might be a problem is that game doesn't allow to select my dedicated gaming GPU from my laptop. It only allows to use the Intel integrated, but even though it's crap for modern day gaming standards it still should chew a 15 year old games like candies. Wattafak? (it does work perfectly fine with Gothic 1, which also doesn't allow dedicated GPU fun).

edit: ok, i kinda made torch to work with little tingling in graphical properties, but the dark parts are still nigh random-click forward type of navigation as Christoff can only traverse very narrow predetermined pathways.
 
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Kaucukovnik

Cipher
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
488
I remember the beginning mines as the shttiest part, both level design and gameplay. It gets a lot better soon.

I like how Christoff retains his medieval speech when you get to modern times, and people mock him constantly. And I recommend keeping your humanity high for the campiest ending.
 

Eirikur

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
1,126
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I remember hosting an online game, waiting for several players to join, then chasing them through Prague as an overpowered chainsaw-wielding nun.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
I'm coping. Another question. Where can i see ''armor class'' and amulet/weapon effects? There is very limited information in the char/inventory scree. For example, i don't know what the hell are benefits of two rings with ''app +5'' i just found.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,420
Remeption is a way better then bloodlines even though I put more hours in bloodlines trying out different clans. The gameplay in redemption was superior with all the disciplines and stuff. Graphics were really good for its time. Story was good too the voice acting was funny. Bloodlines is so fucking overrated.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
Too bad it has the best starting dungeon ever created in any genre of a game. What the fucking fuck. I can't see further than 5 centimeters away from my feet, all the interior is just one homogenous blurp of green-brown-black mess and there are no visual ques on pathways. Now i'm stuck in the place, where i get this better armor (than rags) and there are no way further except back to where i have already been. I bet this game have turned off a many of newcomers even if it's really that good as some people here advertise.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,758
A lot of these tips sound like strategies that induce / deal with buggy behavior. That's a shame. I tried playing this once back in the day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Hearing shit like attacking a Lord sparks all kinds of retaliation tactics, but just feeding on him makes the AI freeze and do nothing is a bummer. It makes me wish for a community bugfix patch before trying it again.
 

Brancaleone

Liturgist
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
1,004
Location
Norcia
Too bad it has the best starting dungeon ever created in any genre of a game. What the fucking fuck. I can't see further than 5 centimeters away from my feet, all the interior is just one homogenous blurp of green-brown-black mess and there are no visual ques on pathways. Now i'm stuck in the place, where i get this better armor (than rags) and there are no way further except back to where i have already been. I bet this game have turned off a many of newcomers even if it's really that good as some people here advertise.
Have you tried changing the Gamma in the graphic options? I remember it helped me quite a lot with dark sections (my display back then had a rather high gamma, so it showed things much darker than they ought to have been).
 

Barbarian

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
7,305
You know, I think I finished this only once. Can't remember if there were actually some minor c&c besides the ending. Like that punk brujah who joined your party and then betrayed you. Could you actually refuse him joining up?
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Remeption is a way better then bloodlines even though I put more hours in bloodlines trying out different clans. The gameplay in redemption was superior with all the disciplines and stuff. Graphics were really good for its time. Story was good too the voice acting was funny. Bloodlines is so fucking overrated.
The ruleset was dumbed down in Bloodlines compared to Redemption, but come on.... I love Redemption as the next guy, but Bloodlines is a much better RPG than Redemption, dumbed down rules or not.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
8,600
Location
Deutschland
I'm coping. Another question. Where can i see ''armor class'' and amulet/weapon effects? There is very limited information in the char/inventory scree. For example, i don't know what the hell are benefits of two rings with ''app +5'' i just found.
app= Appearance, this stat isn't so important but it's required for some useless disciplines like Presence, btw the stat screen shows everything, so the info is not really "limited".

The game is pretty dark at times but not that much that you'll have problems navigating the character. Sounds like a gfx problem. Google "vampire redemption too dark" or something.
https://af.gog.com/forum/vampire_the_masquerade_redemption/brightness/post11?as=1649904300

Where can i see ''armor class'' and amulet/weapon effects?
Certainly you will be able to locate the damage resistance to bashing damage/aggravated damage etc on the char screen? There is no armor class. Armors+Shields give damage reduction.

Too bad it has the best starting dungeon ever created in any genre of a game. What the fucking fuck. I can't see further than 5 centimeters away from my feet, all the interior is just one homogenous blurp of green-brown-black mess and there are no visual ques on pathways. Now i'm stuck in the place, where i get this better armor (than rags) and there are no way further except back to where i have already been. I bet this game have turned off a many of newcomers even if it's really that good as some people here advertise.
You are stuck in the silver mine? That thing is a pretty linear, straightforward affair. What's the location name your stuck at? You're probably missing a junction that leads further down the mine. Or are you stuck at the monastery. (hint: the last level of the monastery you are seemingly stuck but you have to open a gate with iron bars blocking some sort of stairs. There's a secret switch near the bottom of a stone column thingie near the gate to open the bars.)
There will be armors to loot later don't need to buy any in the beginning of the game.

A lot of these tips sound like strategies that induce / deal with buggy behavior. That's a shame. I tried playing this once back in the day and just couldn't bring myself to do it. Hearing shit like attacking a Lord sparks all kinds of retaliation tactics, but just feeding on him makes the AI freeze and do nothing is a bummer. It makes me wish for a community bugfix patch before trying it again.
I deliberately left out all real exploits I'm aware of. Like engaging in ultra-boring degenerate gameplay to get unlimited money early on etc. Feeding on others is not a bug. Enemies will feed on you too and you won't be able to do anything either. You have allies though that can attack and disrupt the feeding process, then again the same is true the other way around. If you feed on someone, you might get attacked by others and the feeding might be interrupted. the only difference is, the AI will never feed you to death, whereas you can just continue to drain them until they die. The game is designed that way, so it's not really a bug. Even ultra-cheese like Obfuscation, is it really an exploit? You can max out Cloak of Shadows and everybody without Auspex (the only enemies that have that are bosses, Tremere, Tzimisce iirc) cannot detect you. You can cast disciplines while being obfuscated. You can go, remain obfuscated and kill them with the disciplines and they can do nothing about it. All in accordance with the actual rules of the setting by the way.

Remeption is a way better then bloodlines even though I put more hours in bloodlines trying out different clans. The gameplay in redemption was superior with all the disciplines and stuff. Graphics were really good for its time. Story was good too the voice acting was funny. Bloodlines is so fucking overrated.
The plot in Redemption is better than Bloodlines. Did BL have a plot? Running errants for the prince. Or was it about Smiling Jack's plan to get back at the Camarilla? Graphics were great for the time in Redemption. But everything else? BL has actual quests for once. With multiple solutions.
And despite the shooter hybrid gameplay the interface worked reasonably well and wasn't rage inducing like in Redemption.

I thought I was the only one to play redemption and bloodlines superconservatively like that. Dominate, feed, and never be out of vitae for boss enemies that can't be fed on. Not that there was any lack of consumables.
The main reason why I play this way is because the game's just woefully inadequately designed to handle a party decently in real-time. The AI of your companions is retarded. The pathfinding is shit. You can pause but can't queue actions when pausing so everything becomes a tedious pause->switch to different character->unpause->initiate action->pause->switch to next character affair. You play in this manner just to reduce the pain and despite that it feels really slow, I'm still convinced it's actually the quicker way of playing the game.

You know, I think I finished this only once. Can't remember if there were actually some minor c&c besides the ending. Like that punk brujah who joined your party and then betrayed you. Could you actually refuse him joining up?
No, you couldn't. You only get a handful of choices during the game, all of which only lead to gaining or losing humanity without any other repurcussions other than the ending. Like for instance, when you meat the Toreador girl she asks for protection in exchange for giving all the info she has and you can say "You better know something worthwhile" (-humanity) or "We offer protection even if you don't know anything helpful" (+humanity). Things like that.
 
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Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,827
What Gnid is experiencing sounds more like a graphical glitch to me. Can you show a screenshot of how it looks like in your game?
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
app= Appearance, this stat isn't so important but it's required for some useless disciplines like Presence, btw the stat screen shows everything, so the info is not really "limited".

It could be better, it doesn't show you the additional protection you get from Stamina, the increased to hit and critical chance you get from Dexterity, that Perception is useless aside from Discipline requirements, potential damage you can deal etc. and descriptions in the Manual are sometimes way off (they claim Dexterity increases your Attack Rate/Speed for example which is nonsense).

A lot of the stuff you have to figure out by testing it during gameplay (not that that's necessarily a bad thing). Bloodlines was a lot more straightforward in that regard, character screen told you everything.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
8,600
Location
Deutschland
app= Appearance, this stat isn't so important but it's required for some useless disciplines like Presence, btw the stat screen shows everything, so the info is not really "limited".

It could be better, it doesn't show you the additional protection you get from Stamina, the increased to hit and critical chance you get from Dexterity, that Perception is useless aside from Discipline requirements, potential damage you can deal etc. and descriptions in the Manual are sometimes way off (they claim Dexterity increases your Attack Rate/Speed for example which is nonsense).

A lot of the stuff you have to figure out by testing it during gameplay (not that that's necessarily a bad thing). Bloodlines was a lot more straightforward in that regard, character screen told you everything.
You're right that to-hit-chance isn't displayed anywhere, but you can see the protection added by Stamina when you remove all armor.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,856
Location
is cold
I passed the dungeon and unfortunately there are no saves left from that stage to show how fucking dark all the shit was. The torch DID do some ilumination, but it was so narrow, that it was nigh useless at some points. Got to the end just by randomly clicking the terrain. Maybe will post some, when i get further and stumble on another similar place, if i'll continue at all.

And yes, with the help of general guide i got how the stat screen shows the effects of armor. Was just kinda unusual to me. This game has some peculiar nuances one needs to get used to.

Also, the guide i peaked into, unintentionally pointed to one odd thing, which i think is kinda good example of shitty design. There is a hint that investing 5 points in ''faith'' gives additional EX after being ebraced + you're ''neonate'' in stead of ''fledgeling'' which also means additional blood pool. Kinda silly.

Also, what about ''manipoulation''? Is it worth investing in it right from the start first given that best weapons/armor is bought (or am i wrong) and those blood necklasses n shit, or is it better to get ST and DX up asap?
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
1,866,227
Location
Third World
Remeption is a way better then bloodlines even though I put more hours in bloodlines trying out different clans. The gameplay in redemption was superior with all the disciplines and stuff. Graphics were really good for its time. Story was good too the voice acting was funny. Bloodlines is so fucking overrated.
The ruleset was dumbed down in Bloodlines compared to Redemption, but come on.... I love Redemption as the next guy, but Bloodlines is a much better RPG than Redemption, dumbed down rules or not.
Redemption mechanics are just stupid. Doesn't even try to resemble the TT game. Bloodlines is dumbed down (from the TT, not redemp) but at least the basic structure is more like the actual thing.

Only good thing about redemption is the short story in the manual. The actual game is about as fun as NWN2 OC.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,823
Redemption mechanics are just stupid. Doesn't even try to resemble the TT game. Bloodlines is dumbed down (from the TT, not redemp) but at least the basic structure is more like the actual thing.

Only good thing about redemption is the short story in the manual. The actual game is about as fun as NWN2 OC.
Actually its a lot more entertaining. Not so much boring as kind of cringe worthy.

NWN2 OC is what you think about when you just want to sleep.
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
You're right that to-hit-chance isn't displayed anywhere, but you can see the protection added by Stamina when you remove all armor.

Tried it, doesn't work in my game for some reason.

untitled1.jpg

Also, the guide i peaked into, unintentionally pointed to one odd thing, which i think is kinda good example of shitty design. There is a hint that investing 5 points in ''faith'' gives additional EX after being ebraced + you're ''neonate'' in stead of ''fledgeling'' which also means additional blood pool. Kinda silly.

It's just a trick to get some extra XP when you start off as a vampire, not of big importance.

Also, what about ''manipoulation''? Is it worth investing in it right from the start first given that best weapons/armor is bought (or am i wrong) and those blood necklasses n shit, or is it better to get ST and DX up asap?

It's not really about the weapon/armor (you can also find a lot of that stuff on your own) but magic jewelry, especially the ones that reduce the cost of casting Disciplines. Sure, it's worth it to take one party member and build his/her Manipulation, the game becomes messy when you try to take all 4 party members into battle anyway for reasons already mentioned in the thread so it's not like you need all of them to be combat ready.
 

Leorgrium

Educated
Joined
Oct 21, 2016
Messages
39
Location
Northern Darkness
My favourite game...I loved it when I played in 2000...
The multiplayer was great with the mods and custom maps :)
 
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