Fallout Underwhelmed by Fallout :(

[laclongquan]

IIRC, Fallout 2 CHA check is for certain early game situation where speech is presumed to be low. Late game is all about skill check.

You can dump CHA skill, but in that case, unless you can tag speech and invest in them accordingly, you can forget most of diplomatic solution or bargains. Bad shopping also.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

It's a shame that Fo2 doesn't separate charisma and beauty.

 

[Lurker King]

Kinda funny how encountering Wasteland has suddenly turned the Fallout cult into skill system aesthetes who admire "elegance". Just the first step on the road to G*D, Roguey would say!

Guilty as charged, there is no excuse. The incredible process that made me come to this conclusion is the following: look at FO2 (not FO1!) character design (read: stats and skills) -> make comparisons to W2 in a desperate attempt to understand what went wrong -> conclude the obvious: W2 is a clusterfuck very confusing mix. Is true that both FO1 and FO2 have trash skills, and that FO2 is more balanced, but at least they didn’t made a mess all over the game in an attempt to make the trap skill more useful in FO2. And just to make myself clear, I was fully aware that both games have trash skills and a lot of skill books. I should have thought more carefully before posting. I think that I’m so disappointed with W2 that anything less convoluted seems like the epitome of elegance.

 

[Lurker King]

In the top ten list of trash stats of all time, “charisma” is in first place. In the top ten list of trash skills of all time, “Barter” is in the first place.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Sykar has already revealed himself as a dumbfuck, all he needs is the tag.

Funny thing is, I can see the argument that death animations & descriptions are sort of a superficial reason for liking combat more than it deserves on the (more "objective") merits of system, mechanics, encounter design etc. but I don't really care because they're so well done that they increase my enjoyment of Fallout's combat tremendously.

 

[Athelas]

How very popamole of you.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

How very popamole of you.

Well, in the end vast majority of cRPG combat is shit.
This one is shit with nice descriptions and animations.

 

[Perkel]

In the top ten list of trash stats of all time, “charisma” is in first place. In the top ten list of trash skills of all time, “Barter” is in the first place.

Not for FO2 though. High charisma is superb in that game and gives you whole plethora of available perks like color coding dialog choices and shit.

Luck is dump stat for most of games including f1 f2

 

[Darkzone]

Hmm, I've been taking a look at the formulas behind skills and I never realized how much improvements Fallout 2 makes to them. In Fallout 1, the effect that attributes had on your skills was practically non-existent, in Fallout 2 they've been beefed up significantly.

Compare:

Small Guns:
5 + 4 * AG [Fallout 2]
35 + AG [Fallout 1]


Speech:
5 * CH [Fallout 2]
25 + 2 * CH [Fallout 1]

More ammunition for the 'Fallout 2 is the better RPG' camp.
Though the small guns example is kinda useless since you have to be actively gimping your character to not be maxing Agility in either game. But pretty much every skill is more dependent on attributes in Fallout 2 compared to Fallout 1.

Athelas it is clear to everyone that FO:2 was superior in technical aspects to FO:1.

 

[Jick Magger]

Endurance's my dump stat in Fallout 2, because once you start getting good equioment and companions to soak up the damage, the only thing that'll kill you in combat is a random crit, and those'll fuck you up regardless of how much HP you have.

 

[zero29]

Not for FO2 though. High charisma is superb in that game and gives you whole plethora of available perks like color coding dialog choices and shit.
Luck is dump stat for most of games including f1 f2

you mean Empathy?

requirements
Level 6
Perception 7
Intelligence 5​

although i think you're right that charisma has it's uses in fo2, i wouldn't see luck as a dump stat in the sequel. quite some combat centric perks have it as a requirement and it determines the chance for a critical with the sniper perk.

 

[Commissar Draco]

They are many dialogues with checks for CHA, PE and INT and all of them are hidden but yes once you will free Sulik you can easily dump STR, END and Luck; Charisma will give you 5 companions (six with perk) and many ways to influence and solve quests not to mention its raises speech and barter much so unlike first part its not dump stat at all. Luck is only useful for combat centrics chars and in very few quests.

 

[Perkel]

They are many dialogues with checks for CHA, PE and INT and all of them are hidden but yes once you will free Sulik you can easily dump STR, END and Luck; Charisma will give you 5 companions (six with perk) and many ways to influence and solve quests not to mention its raises speech and barter much so unlike first part its not dump stat at all. Luck is only useful for combat centrics chars and in very few quests.

and when you take that shitty luck trait. If you choose that better to roll with something that is more than 7 otherwise it could end up badly.

I always wanted this trait to influence game more. Like for instance in Gecko reactor where you would melt cores because of bad luch and nuke whole thing. That would be cool.

 

[Gnidrologist]

F2 is combat centric whether you diplo or not, so no, luck is definitely useful. I still don't get where do you get info on how CHA (and other stats) influence dialogues if what is said about speech being the main governing stat be true. Fallout wiki?

 

[Perkel]

F2 is combat centric whether you diplo or not, so no, luck is definitely useful. I still don't get where do you get info on how CHA (and other stats) influence dialogues if what is said about speech being the main governing stat be true. Fallout wiki?

depends really if you invest in stealth or not and you have knowledge of game. Remember that almost all quest in game are skip able and most of them have "peacefull" sollutions.

I was surprised how stealth worked in F2. In F1 i tried stealth but it didn't work well but in F2 it was quite awesome. I mean take for example first temple. With stealth you can basically skip it without much of a problem. Same for most quest though understanding of quest naturally is important.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Never used stealth, but there are still a lot of random encounters and abandoned tech vaults that i don't think are very viable in stealth unless you miss out stuff. I guess if combined with science most of those turrets and robots can be disabled though. Also, do you have to play solo to effectively stealth?

 

[hiver]

Luck is dump stat for most of games including f1 f2

Not if you want to see some great random encounters. And there are some other smaller benefits.

Also, do you have to play solo to effectively stealth?

Yup. There is also the "stay here" command for companions. F2 only i think.

generally speaking, you can sort of do it, but it wasnt fully supported and fleshed out.

 

[Sykar]

Never used stealth, but there are still a lot of random encounters and abandoned tech vaults that i don't think are very viable in stealth unless you miss out stuff. I guess if combined with science most of those turrets and robots can be disabled though. Also, do you have to play solo to effectively stealth?

From my limited experience, never made a full stealth play through, yes, you have to either go solo or constantly tell your companions to wait somewhere safe.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

and the game ends... which was not a good decision but something made to shorten the development and push the game out.

Not true. At GDC 2012 Tim Cain stated that the time limit for the water chip quest was controversial within the team from its inception all the way until they shipped and that's why they eventfully patched it out. Nothing to do with the schedule. And I still disagree with their decision as any player with experience with the game knows that a high Survival skill and Pathfinder perks lets you finish the game well bellow the time limit without having to play the locations "out of order" (i.e. destroying Mariposa first). Hell I finished the game under 80 days with a Survival build and even went to the Glow. I don't understand this need to experience everything in one playthrough. I like playing Fallout as a loner-moron that everybody hates and makes fun of. I like playing as a pacifist that tries his best not to get blood on his hands even though an insane mutant wants to dip my whole vault-family in a tub of green goop. And I like the urgency of knowing that if I don't hurry, my vault will die and my game is over.

I think I liked the time limit too. At first I thought I wouldn't meet it, but I did find a way to extend it. As far as I remember, I don't remember any other problems with the time limit, despite grinding levels in a futile effort to stop the crits.

In JA2 there's also a time limit, at least I think there was. If you fail to make progress, you get emails from the boss telling you to pick it up. If I recall right, I did fail one time. Maybe it was just a fake threat, sort of like in Fallout, but it felt real enough.

 

[Davaris]

I liked the time limit as well, as it made me play the game aggressively, which was quite enjoyable.

 

[hiver]

I didnt mind it. But there was no need to end the game because of it.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

What are you guys talking about? The Water Chip time limit is in the game, patched or not. It's the other time limit (Mutant invasion after 500 days if you don't finish the game?) that was patched out.

 

[hiver]

I was talking about mutants not invading the vault after i made that deal with water traders.
That was patched out.

I merely said i wish that the game was not over because of not finding water chip in time, although the Vault would be destroyed.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I know about companions, but that's it? That's really a discovery for me. I wouldn't put a single point in CHA, if i knew it, ever. Why would you, when you can just tag and rise your speech. Given that game doesn't show you if skill/stat check is being made like in modern ones, where do you find info on them?

Search through this. He also has one on Fallout 2. Fallout 1 apparently has 13 Charisma checks, though they all seem minor and most aren't exclusively tied to Charisma.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Ah, Per's guide. How could i forget.