Fallout Underwhelmed by Fallout :(

[tuluse]

iirc if you make those merchants bring water to vault 13, it gets invaded and people dies. also i think it had something to do with mutants invading other towns as well.

It just speeds up when V13 gets invaded.

 

[hiver]

Didnt that get removed by some patch? I didnt have it in my game and i really tried to make it happen.

 

[Shadenuat]

Mutants conquering cities if you fail to stop Master was removed by patch, if I remember correctly (best C&C off cause players thought it wasn't "fair"). Not the Water Traders C&C.

 

[hiver]

Never happened to me. Went on long walks through the desert, slept for months... nothing.
maybe it was some weird bug... but i thought it was also one of those things that "fans" complained about.

 

[pippin]

I believe I played with a restored content patch. I went into the Necropolis sewers and everything was ok, but when I emerged everyone was dead. I also got the bad ending for Necropolis because of this.

 

[sgm]

I believe I played with a restored content patch. I went into the Necropolis sewers and everything was ok, but when I emerged everyone was dead. I also got the bad ending for Necropolis because of this.

Not necessarily. The Necropolis invasion was the only one left in game after the official patch. What you're describing sounds a bit like the map bug that TeamX fixed in v.1.3.5, where one Necropolis area map might have mutant invaders and another had survivors.

Wasteland Ghost made a patch a couple of years ago that restored the invasions to all the towns. There were a few more things she planned to add, but abandoned it. I believe Suidbek's FIXT mod contains some of her work from it, but you can still get her original patch at NMA's download area.

 

[pippin]

Not necessarily. The Necropolis invasion was the only one left in game after the official patch. What you're describing sounds a bit like the map bug that TeamX fixed in v.1.3.5, where one Necropolis area map might have mutant invaders and another had survivors.

Wasteland Ghost made a patch a couple of years ago that restored the invasions to all the towns. There were a few more things she planned to add, but abandoned it. I believe Suidbek's FIXT mod contains some of her work from it, but you can still get her original patch at NMA's download area.

I basically followed the guide provided in the GoG forums. I think the dead people thing happened in that map where Set is.

 

[Infinitron]

Mutants conquering cities if you fail to stop Master was removed by patch, if I remember correctly (best C&C off cause players thought it wasn't "fair"). Not the Water Traders C&C.

When you say "mutants conquering cities", there are actually two meanings for that.

1) Mutants actually occupying the cities in-game, which I think only ever happens in Necropolis, even before the patch (but I could be wrong about this?).
2) Being told that the cities were conquered by mutants in the endgame slides, which happens if you took too long to finish the game (not sure if the patch altered this)

The patch did definitely remove the final countdown of the mutants conquering Vault 13.

 

[laclongquan]

Also, F1 fans can not get over the fact that F2 do the nagging about MQ much better than F1. F1 you have the note on pipboy about out of water. F2 hit you out of blue with a dream sequence about bad things happen in your homeland. If you get anxious and return: true, things are getting from bad to worse there. You dont know when exactly the dreams start, and the content get very anxious.

If you are not antsy after those dreams, either you are a heartless monster (which many of you are) or you play too many F2 games (again, many of you are).

 

[Lurker King]

It's okay to throw away old things when they can be described as the least-worst at what they do.

But FO1 is not just very good for its time, it’s very good now. The players evolved over the years, become more mature and demanding, but the industry has fallen behind. As a matter of fact, even some of the developers evolved but they weren’t able to implement what they wanted. That’s why you see developers like your beloved Josh Sawyer complaining on YouTube about lack of historical time periods used more as settings within RPGs. When the subject is cRPGs, the game industry is still in the dark ages. The main culprit is the inevitable change towards causals, but the inertia, lack of imagination and incompetence of some devs didn’t help either. Notice that the same doesn’t apply to movie classics. Some of them have stupid cinematography and horrible production values that are laughable today.

 

[Lurker King]

I didn't play it all that long but didn't FNV have Roman larpers (as one of the major factions in the game no less), space ghouls, tranny supermutant and the option to make a robot into a town sheriff? I like FPS genre (and some noteworthy FPS/RPG hybrids like Deus Ex, Bloodlines, SS etc.) but FNV/Fallout 3 combat gameplay really doesn't do it for me (I never liked console shooters so there's that I guess), I also felt attributes/skills/perks didn't have enough effect on my character (you could take them out and I would barely notice the difference).


I think it's overrated around here if anything due to Codex love for Obsidian writing, C&C, hiking simulators and surprisingly high tolerance for Bethesduh gameplay/engine.

As for NV being mature hahaohwow.jpg. It has more wacky stuff than even F2 and i'm not probably not even 1/3d into the game.

Ghoulish sect led by glowing ghoul named Bright (hurr durr), where they have a human, who think he's a ghoul and speaks in grumpy ghoulish voice.

Not to mention you help fueling their rockets with uranium or some shit found in toy rockets at the silly DIno Dinky shopkeeper.

Silly robots pretending to be cowboys, one of which you can make a sheriff of a town.

A gang who dress and act like elvises, with their leader being genuine incarnation of The King himself.

A weirdo high society club dabbling in cannibalism.

Gang larping ancient romans and a gang larping mongols.

The whole Nypton saga seemed immature and forced with the only goal to get reaction out of the player by making the remaining townspeople such a caricaturic hyperbola of decadent degenerates that was obviously aimed to make you ''damn, they had it coming to them'' and even feel stupid if you killed Vulpes in righteous rage.

Convincing female cowboy ghoul to become a prostitute. Making a sexbot and ''How are you today? Santiago is fabulous!''.


And i'm fine with all that. I think serious themes and humor is balanced well in NV. It only lacks better writing. It surely isn't more mature than F2 though.

I disagree with you two on this one. The combat is not good, but the attributes, skills and perks provides a lot of role-playing possibilities. If you didn’t realize that, you are missing all the fun. True, FNV has some wacky stuff too (Fawkes, the cowboy ghoul and the guy who thinks he is a ghoul are comic characters), but both the main quest and side quests are more believable, and the setting is more consistent. Obviously, I won’t list every single quest that is not comic, the game is huge. But Caesar's Legion is perfectly fine. I don't think that ghoulish sect and the rocket stuff is that crazy either. The robot that you can turn in a sheriff fits since it was programmed in a western thematic casino. The Elvis gang and the cannibalistic society are realistic representations of how much people in general is stupid and fragile. Let’s take the Elvis gang, for instance. The humankind had created whole cultures using stupid idols and most people is completed determined by its culture. You will find many gangs in real life that look more stereotyped than the Elvis gang. You realize that the Elvis gang is not just another thematic park when you have the quest to convince the King to cease hostilities with the NCR. If you try to solve this diplomatically, you can fail the quest in a lot of ways. If you are rude to him, he and his gang will open fire. There is not Bethesda bullshit level here, it’s serious writing. Codex love for Obsidian writing and C&C is one of the main remaining bastions of incline.

 

[sgm]

Also, F1 fans can not get over the fact that F2 do the nagging about MQ much better than F1. F1 you have the note on pipboy about out of water. F2 hit you out of blue with a dream sequence about bad things happen in your homeland. If you get anxious and return: true, things are getting from bad to worse there. You dont know when exactly the dreams start, and the content get very anxious.

If you are not antsy after those dreams, either you are a heartless monster (which many of you are) or you play too many F2 games (again, many of you are).

Where do you think the idea for those nagging screens came from in the quest for the GECK? Fallout did this first with the water chip quest. You get two of them before time completely runs out. Also, if you return to the vault sometime after the start you can see the problems happening already and they are quest related. I'm not sure if the second game had anything for you to do if you returned before finding the GECK. I never did.

 

[laclongquan]

Read it again, chap~ I said "better" not first. being first never count for much in my book.

F1, if you wait a bit in the cave you can get back into the Vault. Face it, you are being thrown out into the cold dark cave, it's natural for you to wait a bit to get right back in, right? And once you get back in you get a few nice quest to help you on the starting equipment and shits. After that... zip. Nothing else until you complete the 1st stage of MQ.

F2, once you travel a bit, you get hit with dream sequence, the next one sound worse than the last. It will get you antsy (unless you are a monster, as I said) and you get back to check: Viola~ It's actually worse. very anxious and depress. To the point that later runs, I just dont come back. I know what's been happening. My early game for the GECK is very optimized, no shits for wandering around. The Den-> Modoc -> The Den --> Redding -->VC -->Gecko --> NCR (scouting run)-> V13. Another version is Redding -->New Reno -->NCR (caravan run).

After I get the Geck and a final revisit to homeland did I start to relax a bit and finish New Reno, Broken HIll, V15, NCR...

 

[sgm]

Read it again, chap~ I said "better" not first. being first never count for much in my book.

F1, if you wait a bit in the cave you can get back into the Vault. Face it, you are being thrown out into the cold dark cave, it's natural for you to wait a bit to get right back in, right? And once you get back in you get a few nice quest to help you on the starting equipment and shits. After that... zip. Nothing else until you complete the 1st stage of MQ.

F2, once you travel a bit, you get hit with dream sequence, the next one sound worse than the last. It will get you antsy (unless you are a monster, as I said) and you get back to check: Viola~ It's actually worse. very anxious and depress. To the point that later runs, I just dont come back. I know what's been happening. My early game for the GECK is very optimized, no shits for wandering around. The Den-> Modoc -> The Den --> Redding -->VC -->Gecko --> NCR (scouting run)-> V13. Another version is Redding -->New Reno -->NCR (caravan run).

After I get the Geck and a final revisit to homeland did I start to relax a bit and finish New Reno, Broken HIll, V15, NCR...

Sorry. I thought you were implying that there was only the countdown to the water running out and no nagging screens. Still, the nag screen in the second game doesn't matter once you realize there's no threat. Arroyo suffering doesn't end the game, nor does it change the outcome, but Vault 13 dies unless you get the water chip in 150 days. There's more player investment in finding that chip than making sure Hakunin isn't a sad panda. That's why I think the nag screen fails to be effective in Fallout 2. It only works the first time you play, but even with metaknowledge there is still urgency to complete the water chip quest.

 

[hiver]

The patch did definitely remove the final countdown of the mutants conquering Vault 13.

There you go... any patch restores all that back?

Vault 13 dies unless you get the water chip in 150 days.

and the game ends... which was not a good decision but something made to shorten the development and push the game out.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I disagree with you two on this one. The combat is not good, but the attributes, skills and perks provides a lot of role-playing possibilities. If you didn’t realize that, you are missing all the fun. True, FNV has some wacky stuff too (Fawkes, the cowboy ghoul and the guy who thinks he is a ghoul are comic characters), but both the main quest and side quests are more believable, and the setting is more consistent. Obviously, I won’t list every single quest that is not comic, the game is huge. But Caesar's Legion is perfectly fine. I don't think that ghoulish sect and the rocket stuff is that crazy either. The robot that you can turn in a sheriff fits since it was programmed in a western thematic casino. The Elvis gang and the cannibalistic society are realistic representations of how much people in general is stupid and fragile. Let’s take the Elvis gang, for instance. The humankind had created whole cultures using stupid idols and most people is completed determined by its culture. You will find many gangs in real life that look more stereotyped than the Elvis gang. You realize that the Elvis gang is not just another thematic park when you have the quest to convince the King to cease hostilities with the NCR. If you try to solve this diplomatically, you can fail the quest in a lot of ways. If you are rude to him, he and his gang will open fire. There is not Bethesda bullshit level here, it’s serious writing. Codex love for Obsidian writing and C&C is one of the main remaining bastions of incline.

I didn't compare it to Bethesda level of stupid, just that it's on par with F2 in terms of lulz. If you think Kings and casinos are perfectly fine than you should have even less problems with tommy gun bouncers, who were also just an artificial signboard in front of what was actually fairly well fleshed out crime gangs. Otherwise it's just finding arbitrary excuses for wacky shit in one game, while cooking up equally arbitrary criticism for ones in another just to confirm a prior bias.

Btw, i haven't played much of Obsidian games, but writing in NV although competent, is very very bland. For most characters anyway. There is no reason to cringe about it like it would with Beth, but it's kinda boring. Also too much wiki stuff that i only push forward not to miss some quest or important marker. Hardly anyone has any personality in this game so i basically push ''next line'' without reading/listening most of the time. Both early Fallouts were miles above in this respect.

As for skills and attributes i also wind them underwhelming. They sure don't influence combat in any meaningful way, because VATS is useless and real time stuff is 100% player skill based. I'm now disappointed that i even invested any perks and skill points in guns. Should had all science/lockpick/speech and all crafting skills (they give you access to stuff as well as skill check success in many dialogues) and ignore anything else. Not balanced at all. I can't hit a guy with a sniper rifle as close as 20 meters with 100% guns skill.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

How does even the nagging screen in Fo2 work? Wasn't nagging screen in Fo1 put in by the overseer?

 

[Roguey]

But FO1 is not just very good for its time, it’s very good now.

It's not good enough for good when it comes to systems, dialogue, and inventory UI.

 

[Lurker King]

But FO1 is not just very good for its time, it’s very good now.

It's not good enough for good when it comes to systems, dialogue, and inventory UI.

 

[shihonage]

But FO1 is not just very good for its time, it’s very good now.

It's not good enough for good when it comes to systems, dialogue, and inventory UI.

I've been playing a little F1 on Steam recently. The UI feels like part of the world, writing is compact and descriptive, combat is punchy, it's great! Inventory may not be the best, but this game isn't nearly as obsessed with trash items as a Bethesda game, so it's ok.

 

[Sykar]

Funny, people bash SRR combat which is miles deeper than Fallout, just less visually gratifying, but what do you do in Fallout? Trying to stay out of the enemies optimal range and hope you hit your shots and have enough stimpacks.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Funny, people bash SRR combat which is miles deeper than Fallout, just less visually gratifying, but what do you do in Fallout? Trying to stay out of the enemies optimal range and hope you hit your shots and have enough stimpacks.

Well, when it comes to sub-JA2 firearm combat in the end it's a question of gimmics. And Fo did gimmicks very well.
Too bad they didn't keep GURPS, though :/ .

 

[tuluse]

Funny, people bash SRR combat which is miles deeper than Fallout, just less visually gratifying, but what do you do in Fallout? Trying to stay out of the enemies optimal range and hope you hit your shots and have enough stimpacks.

We complain about Fallout combat plenty. I imagine a quite a few codexers have dreamed of Fallout with good combat.

However, a key difference here is that SRR is basically all combat. Fallout has so much more to it, we can overlook a flaw like that.

 

[Sykar]

Funny, people bash SRR combat which is miles deeper than Fallout, just less visually gratifying, but what do you do in Fallout? Trying to stay out of the enemies optimal range and hope you hit your shots and have enough stimpacks.

Well, when it comes to sub-JA2 firearm combat in the end it's a question of gimmics. And Fo did gimmicks very well.
Too bad they didn't keep GURPS, though :/ .

Which gimmicks? The death scenes? Get old fast. Really fast. What else? The "I punch once with my Sledgehammer and guy flies across the entire screen" gimmick? Annoying at best.

Funny, people bash SRR combat which is miles deeper than Fallout, just less visually gratifying, but what do you do in Fallout? Trying to stay out of the enemies optimal range and hope you hit your shots and have enough stimpacks.

We complain about Fallout combat plenty. I imagine a quite a few codexers have dreamed of Fallout with good combat.

However, a key difference here is that SRR is basically all combat. Fallout has so much more to it, we can overlook a flaw like that.

SRR was build on less resources relatively speaking with primary focus on the editor. The campaign was a goodie, nothing else, and that's how most of the backers wanted it.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Funny, people bash SRR combat which is miles deeper than Fallout, just less visually gratifying, but what do you do in Fallout? Trying to stay out of the enemies optimal range and hope you hit your shots and have enough stimpacks.

Well, when it comes to sub-JA2 firearm combat in the end it's a question of gimmics. And Fo did gimmicks very well.
Too bad they didn't keep GURPS, though :/ .

Which gimmicks? The death scenes? Get old fast. Really fast. What else? The "I punch once with my Sledgehammer and guy flies across the entire screen" gimmick? Annoying at best.

Gore and critical descriptions.