Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Underrail vs Age of Decadence

kwanzabot

Cipher
Shitposter
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
597
somethings bugged me in underrail but i liked it alot

some things bugged me in aod but i didnt think it was bad, but i like underrail more :P
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Still the AI of Underrail is miles ahead of that of BG 2. Bg 2 AI was basically non existent, heck mages would hammer spells into you even if you had Protection from Magic up.
Bullshit. Compared to UR where enemies would use same weapon like bullets even if you are completely immune to bullets? Say that again when enemies in UR would learn to change weapons depending on type of your armor and energy shield.
 
Last edited:

Roqua

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
4,130
Location
YES!
I absolutely love them both and hope and pray for a million games more from each in hopefully a much shorter timeframe.

What I want from both is

1) at least a three member party that I create myself

2) If you keep it single player don't have crafting use the same character development resources as the combat, utility, and/or social abilities. I think this is something most MMOs get right.

3) More feats, more depth to the character development (like implants for UR and feats for AoD, and more feats for UR, etc). More diversity, more options, more everything.

4) Make games much faster. Higher teams to work on multiple games with your engine and resources.

5) I would love to see UR be the next rpgmaker. AoD not so much since it doesn't have a superior and civilized fixed camera. I told you when you switched from awesome 2d fixed perspective that going 3d was a really bad idea. Only fucking dimwitted idiots think wasting time fucking around with a camera to see if you missed a fucking bush or a door is fun. It is a hassle and a huge waste of time and adds nothing to the game but shit and annoying shitty timesink.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Still the AI of Underrail is miles ahead of that of BG 2. Bg 2 AI was basically non existent, heck mages would hammer spells into you even if you had Protection from Magic up.
Bullshit. Compared to UR where enemies would use same weapon like bullets even if you are completely immune to bullets? Say that again when enemies in UR would learn to change weapons depending on type of your armor and energy shield.

Yeah, UR is like most other RPGs in its braindead AI. If you run away and hide behind corners, or use incendiary grenades, you can see them do all kinds of dumb stuff - including plasma sentries who will set up then dismantle their power shot turn after turn, things that run away from the fire then stand and twiddle thumbs in your range, etc.

I just wish the fucking SMG wielders would burst you, instead of taking 20 seconds each turn firing eight single bullets at you..
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Still the AI of Underrail is miles ahead of that of BG 2. Bg 2 AI was basically non existent, heck mages would hammer spells into you even if you had Protection from Magic up.
Bullshit. Compared to UR where enemies would use same weapon like bullets even if you are completely immune to bullets? Say that again when enemies in UR would learn to change weapons depending on type of your armor and energy shield.

Most of these enemies simply do not have anything else besides that weapon and bullets so they have no options unlike BG 2 mages.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Most of these enemies simply do not have anything else besides that weapon and bullets so they have no options unlike BG 2 mages.
There are so many things wrong even with the idea of comparing UR to BG2 mages that I won't even bother answering that.

As for topic, Lord Andre summed up the difference in combat between UR and AoD fairly well. UR is more freeform but it's also full of trash mobs and it's easier to abuse AI. AoD encounters are hand made but you can't approach all of them how you want (although you can quite a few). That's also what makes AoD more difficult, since no abusing of running between locations.

Also I think both games make a mistake that many RPGs seem to make compared to tactical games - to effectively use some sort of secondary weapon, you need a build around it. In AoD you will suffer for leveling 2 weapons. In UR it's a lot easier to level up multiple weapon skills, but it is also not needed since you win anyway.
In comparison tactical games like Commandos or JA seem to make things like knives most silent and deadly weapons up close or make some other weapons more like special abilities that you have to use. I always thought RPGs could use some of that, so you wouldn't need 200% in super specialized weapon to change your approach to one particular encounter.
 

Brutan

Savant
Patron
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
127
Location
Romania
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Underrail is on a lower level than most of Jeff Vogel's games. Is nothing to be excited about and is one of the most overrated games here.
On the other hand, Age of Decadence is great: it has story, characters, politics etc.
IMO the only aspect Underrail does better is graphics.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
Still the AI of Underrail is miles ahead of that of BG 2. Bg 2 AI was basically non existent, heck mages would hammer spells into you even if you had Protection from Magic up.
Bullshit. Compared to UR where enemies would use same weapon like bullets even if you are completely immune to bullets? Say that again when enemies in UR would learn to change weapons depending on type of your armor and energy shield.
Not my quote.
 

Tito Anic

Arcane
Shitposter
Joined
Dec 27, 2015
Messages
1,679
Location
Magalan
Is nothing to be excited about and is one of the most overrated games here.

ErShpkz.jpg
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,882
Still the AI of Underrail is miles ahead of that of BG 2. Bg 2 AI was basically non existent, heck mages would hammer spells into you even if you had Protection from Magic up.
Bullshit. Compared to UR where enemies would use same weapon like bullets even if you are completely immune to bullets? Say that again when enemies in UR would learn to change weapons depending on type of your armor and energy shield.

Yeah, UR is like most other RPGs in its braindead AI. If you run away and hide behind corners, or use incendiary grenades, you can see them do all kinds of dumb stuff - including plasma sentries who will set up then dismantle their power shot turn after turn, things that run away from the fire then stand and twiddle thumbs in your range, etc.

I just wish the fucking SMG wielders would burst you, instead of taking 20 seconds each turn firing eight single bullets at you..
Plasma sentry set up so they can do more damage. If you run out of range or sight they need to disemble so they can move to position where they can fire again.
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
Is nothing to be excited about and is one of the most overrated games here.

ErShpkz.jpg

Well he kinda has a point. Underrail reminds me strongly on Jeff Vogel games. Though i wouldnt say Underrail is overrated, its more like Jeff Vogel games are underrated here nowadays.

Vogel should make some postapocalyptic/cyberpunk games, maybe its the fresh air he needs to come across his creative lockout in regards of writing.
 

Jack Dandy

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
3,039
Location
Israel
Divinity: Original Sin 2
A thing Underrail has and Vogel's games doesn't is polish.

I just can't get beyond all those ... "Little things" in Vogel's games.
1-model enemies. Relatively mindless combat. No music. Caverns that don't feel dark. Awful animations, if any at all. No NPC portraits. Ridiculous-looking tilesets.

They may be trivial on their own, but when you add all of that up, it just gets too much to bear.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Most of these enemies simply do not have anything else besides that weapon and bullets so they have no options unlike BG 2 mages.
There are so many things wrong even with the idea of comparing UR to BG2 mages that I won't even bother answering that.

As for topic, Lord Andre summed up the difference in combat between UR and AoD fairly well. UR is more freeform but it's also full of trash mobs and it's easier to abuse AI. AoD encounters are hand made but you can't approach all of them how you want (although you can quite a few). That's also what makes AoD more difficult, since no abusing of running between locations.

Also I think both games make a mistake that many RPGs seem to make compared to tactical games - to effectively use some sort of secondary weapon, you need a build around it. In AoD you will suffer for leveling 2 weapons. In UR it's a lot easier to level up multiple weapon skills, but it is also not needed since you win anyway.
In comparison tactical games like Commandos or JA seem to make things like knives most silent and deadly weapons up close or make some other weapons more like special abilities that you have to use. I always thought RPGs could use some of that, so you wouldn't need 200% in super specialized weapon to change your approach to one particular encounter.

Besides mages and priests you only have couple of bosses who do more essentially than autoattack. Warriors just run and whack at you, they do not even have special attacks or buffs or debuffs or whatever. If they are lucky they have a potion or two but that is that. Rogues are even more worthless often nothing more than second rate fighters with shitty THAC0, AC and HP. Druids shapeshifting is worthless mostly and their spells overlap a lot with priests so not a big difference outside of Iron Skin.

UR AI is overall better especially for the grunts. At least they can use grenades without killing their own people on a regular basis and almost all of them have a special attack or two and more often than not adrenal shots and health hypos. BG 2 mages have no qualms throwing Delayed Blast Fireball and Skulltraps into their own ranks sometimes even kiling themselves.
Also they can use CC and Stealth better. Rogues in BG 2 oftren waste their backsabs into Stoneskin not being able to realize that that priest over there would be a one shot instead of that mage who is buffed to the max.

Also a lot of enemies can be quite deadly early on in UR and only become trash when you have good gear and level which in some ways is good since it gives you a sense of progress. Or would you like Oblivion level of derp with enemies scaled to your level + weapon quality etc even if it is just some lowly hobo? Face it, trash is neccesary to some degree otherwise there will be no sense of progression.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
Still the AI of Underrail is miles ahead of that of BG 2. Bg 2 AI was basically non existent, heck mages would hammer spells into you even if you had Protection from Magic up.

Bullshit. Compared to UR where enemies would use same weapon like bullets even if you are completely immune to bullets? Say that again when enemies in UR would learn to change weapons depending on type of your armor and energy shield.

The AI in Underrail is pretty bad. You can use kiting everytime you want to heal, come back to kill another one, etc. The enemies are completely dumb, clueless.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Still the AI of Underrail is miles ahead of that of BG 2. Bg 2 AI was basically non existent, heck mages would hammer spells into you even if you had Protection from Magic up.

Bullshit. Compared to UR where enemies would use same weapon like bullets even if you are completely immune to bullets? Say that again when enemies in UR would learn to change weapons depending on type of your armor and energy shield.

The AI in Underrail is pretty bad. You can use kiting everytime you want to heal, come back to kill another one, etc. The enemies are completely dumb, clueless.

Against that, sure. Then again you do not HAVE to abuse such weaknesses to the max but of course that would require a little restraint which is of course too much to ask.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
1,865,419
Guys, let’s be honest here. The AI in every cRPG is bad. Some of them are less bad than others, but overall they’re all pretty bad. When people start arguing that Underrail has great AI because it’s better than BG2, you know our standards are low. The AI of AoD is better than Underrail, but it is also bad. I think that developers don’t invest too much on the improvement of AI because it’s time consuming, comes really late in the design cycle, and most players don’t give a shit. The sad thing is that I don’t think this will ever change.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
And how do you know bad AI is to blame in a situation like this? Even with more than 90% accuracy my mage occasionally would throw a grenade (same with area of effect psi spells) in her face. I am not happy with Underrail's AI, but in a game in which throwing doesn't automatically hit, I would expect this to happen to an enemy too. Unless you prefer a game where throwing doesn't take any skill and always works?
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Because it's the guy who is shouting "BUUURNS" thrown grenade into me while he and his own 3 people were still alive. He killed himself, 2 of his own, and wounded 4th.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
Because it's the guy who is shouting "BUUURNS" thrown grenade into me while he and his own 3 people were still alive. He killed himself, 2 of his own, and wounded 4th.
But that's what my mage with 90% accuracy would do too. My question is: did the AI aim the grenade at the entire group, or did it aim at your character and fumble the throw?
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,882
And how do you know bad AI is to blame in a situation like this? Even with more than 90% accuracy my mage occasionally would throw a grenade (same with area of effect psi spells) in her face. I am not happy with Underrail's AI, but in a game in which throwing doesn't automatically hit, I would expect this to happen to an enemy too. Unless you prefer a game where throwing doesn't take any skill and always works?
Like WL2? :D
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom