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Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

jagged-jimmy

Prophet
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Freeside
Codex 2012
Hopper quest is rather easy with stealth since you do not need to entangle them, you can just run up to them and use the box with 100% success.
You can use the boxes directly on hoppers, no need to entange or anything, as already been pointed out a couple of posts back.

Nope, but knives don't need poisons to defeat tin cans. Expose Weakness works wonders.
Oh wow, nice killer feat. But a stealthy knife build already has so many. It will be hard to fit it in.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Hey epeli , this weekend I noticed you missed a section of map on yr wiki re: Forsaken Island. You aware of this and just not posting 'cuz "Spoilers"?
 

Alfons

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Messages
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Extremely high scores in one stat isn't really my style and requires sacrifices of some kind or another.
Do you mean that you allocate stats in a way that allows you to get the feats you want or do you mean that you want to grab a bunch of different skills?
 

ST'Ranger

Augur
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
306
No, the nonsensical part was your assessment on the importance of packing the highest possible caliber and the reasoning for it: "the most benefit out of the game mechanics (raw penetration power vs. mechanical/kevlar) relative to other firearms"

You're disagreeing with a point that I'm not making, so I suppose I'll concede. It's best to focus on the spirit of my post rather than specific phrases because I don't qualify every clause like a lawyer. In that very sentence you're quoting from, the first thing I do is agree with Alfons. Afterwards he disagrees again, interpreting my statements as an analysis rather than an illustration. I explain that point as well, in a later part of the conversation, ending "I chose to frame [ARs and SMGs] in juxtaposition rather than demonstrate the full range of their capabilities and highlight possible similarities."

I had the choice when writing my preview to put whatever build ideas into it I could imagine. Since it would be unwieldy and impractical to post all possible build ideas, I decided to go with those most different from non-AR options in the game. You could consider at an aesthetic or "textural" choice, but there's nothing in there that should be conflated with optimization.

epeli said:
Not sure what you meant with Steel Cats. Why would an AR character want one? Hornets have higher damage, less damage spread, higher magazine capacity and better burst accuracy than Steel Cats of comparable quality/caliber. Lower AP cost as well if you've invested in str instead of dex. Not to mention Concentrated Fire doesn't work with SMGs.

That was an off-hand comment that I wouldn't normally bother to follow up on except that it's been misinterpreted rather strongly. For the sake of clarity, I was talking about two different characters - one optimized to use the Steel Cat, and another optimized for AR bullet hosing.
 

Styg

Stygian Software
Developer
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Aug 18, 2010
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742
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Serbia
Also Styg I've been quite impressed with how well the new stairs work (the ones that replaced the old blue in-zone transitions). I was sure I could bug them out if I tried hard enough, but I haven't managed yet.
Courtesy of our level designer/graphics artist, Mac. He's doing impressive work in level design, especially when you consider the engine limitations.
 
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epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Hey epeli , this weekend I noticed you missed a section of map on yr wiki re: Forsaken Island. You aware of this and just not posting 'cuz "Spoilers"?
No, that just means I missed it. :P I know there's a bunch of other things I've missed as well. Including, but not limited to, an entire map in Core City. Plus probably a lot of stuff that I don't even know about.

To be honest, I haven't even thought of any spoiler policy yet. I've tried to apply the mythical superpower known as Common Sense when it comes to spoilers in the wiki. So far the only spoilers I've deliberately avoided are things like Ezra's true identity.

And talking about the wiki, just a few hours ago Styg and I implemented a simple captcha and re-opened user registration. Anyone who wants to contribute to the wiki can now do so easily.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
And talking about the wiki, just a few hours ago Styg and I implemented a simple captcha and re-opened user registration. Anyone who wants to contribute to the wiki can now do so easily.

Cool, I'll probably start doing that soon! In the meantime though...you should go back to Forsaken Island. You missed something pretty cool. ;)
 

AetherVagrant

Cipher
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I've got to scrap my build and start over. On the oddities system, psi character, im already level 7 at junkyard but i bungled my build by spreading points around in things im not actually using much. Like crossbow when i dont need it now that psi points regenerate, trying to go for both hacking and lockpicking, ... i keep getting myself into situations i cant get out that id be able to if i narrowed focus a bit.
this time pure psi, melee as the only weapon cat so i can use the psi punch effectively, go for lockpicking over hacking, high stealth, persuasion, skip crafting. I always liked the burgle-mage.
 

TwinkieGorilla

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, I would always recommend only one "weapon" and one main branch of craft focus to invest points into.
 

Alfons

Prophet
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Jul 25, 2014
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1,031
epeli Do the guys in the arena carry unique variants of the gear they use? on the wiki it says that...
...Stygian Exorcist carries a robe, but it doesn't say anywhere in the wiki that his robe reduces the cooldown on bilocation by 9 turns. :retarded:
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
719
epeli Do the guys in the arena carry unique variants of the gear they use? on the wiki it says that...
...Stygian Exorcist carries a robe, but it doesn't say anywhere in the wiki that his robe reduces the cooldown on bilocation by 9 turns. :retarded:
The wiki is not infallible :P Looks like this particular case was changed after I tested it. Thanks for letting me know.
 

Alfons

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The wiki is not infallible :P Looks like this particular case was changed after I tested it. Thanks for letting me know.
No problem. ;)

I've got to scrap my build and start over. On the oddities system, psi character, im already level 7 at junkyard but i bungled my build by spreading points around in things im not actually using much. Like crossbow when i dont need it now that psi points regenerate, trying to go for both hacking and lockpicking, ... i keep getting myself into situations i cant get out that id be able to if i narrowed focus a bit.
this time pure psi, melee as the only weapon cat so i can use the psi punch effectively, go for lockpicking over hacking, high stealth, persuasion, skip crafting. I always liked the burgle-mage.
I went with a pure psi user and I can max out hacking, lockpicking, 3 crafting skills, and all the psi skills. I'm level 14 now and I beat like 2 quests in a minor location after the game opened up, I spend most of my time just exploring.

It might change later, but the more I play the more I wish I took persuasion and intimidate for this char over lockpicking and hacking. It got me around 4-10 exp that I wouldn't have gotten without them, but for the most part they just give me access to items and money I don't need. It might be important to note that I quickload merchants in order to get the components I need. For someone that isn't willing to do that having access to more loot might be beneficial, but it's still a complete shit show.

Intimidate is nice because of yell, though I can't vouch for how good it is. Persuasion is nice because it would allow me to skip prerequisites for certain quests. I encountered 2 npcs that had quests, but they tell me to go fuck myself because I can't persuade or intimidate them. I'm certain you can do both of these quests if you did something else first but if you like to fuck about the world and discover stuff out of order being able to actually do the shit you discover is convenient.

Yeah, I would always recommend only one "weapon" and one main branch of craft focus to invest points into.
I strongly disagree with the latter. Obviously this advice depends on the build but lets look at crafting skills on their own.

Biology has a defined upper limit, meaning once you reach a certain number you should leave it. The most basic products it provides are plentiful and inexpensive. If any of the more powerful concoctions can be easily obtained late game I'm not sure about its effectiveness. You need to dabble in chemistry and mechanics to get some items.

Chemistry looks to be the same as biology.

Electronics creates custom psi headbands, shield emitters, cloaking devices, and tasers. To create headbands you need a modest biology investment.

Tailoring is required if you want to create your own armor and boots. It doesn't matter if it's metal or leather all of them have components that require tailoring.

Mechanics creates guns, many types of armors, and some components require mechanics.

Taking all of the above into consideration taking more than one crafting skill is extremely beneficial because there is so much overlap. Depending on what you want to make it's outright required. For example if you want to make armor that isn't leather you pretty much have to take tailoring and mechanics.
 

TwinkieGorilla

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Well, yes that's true. But I still would recommend choosing one as the focus with auxiliary investments as needed.
 

Alfons

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I read either here or on the Underrail forum that some guys are having trouble in the arena against some opponents. The gist seems to be that if the opponent goes first you lose. Whether this is an issue with the older versions or not I don't know, but if you are having this problem just try repeatedly pressing Enter while the announcements are going on.
 

TwinkieGorilla

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
The final fight always goes that way for me. I can't get a single turn if I don't go first.
 

jagged-jimmy

Prophet
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Freeside
Codex 2012
The final fight always goes that way for me. I can't get a single turn if I don't go first.
I played recently with stealth knife dude - true, go first or die. But if build properly, this should depend on normal ini roll.
For tank characters there is no problem. I had 800 hp in a good metal armor. Could survive/kill all opponents going first vs. me.

Edit: But yea, one should plan for the arena. Not all characters can do it.
 

Alfons

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My dude has 3 dex and 3 agi and I always went first.

I wasn't waiting for initiative, I took the initiative. :smug:
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
The interdependency of crafting skills is both good and bad, in my opinion.

Crafting ultimately produces items that are leagues better than the very best looted or store-bought goods—and they are made to order, perfectly suited to your character's build. What's more, recycling items and converting the scraps into repair kits is insanely lucrative. You can repair your gear with them, repair your loot with them to vastly increase the resale value, and even sell the kits themselves for quite a nice profit. You'll never run out of them, as you can trade various merchants for huge quantities of cheap balaclavas, knives, tabi boots, leather (which can then be crafted into basic armor and recycled), and black cloth (this becomes more balaclavas and boots to recycle) in addition to recycling low-quality loot. Furthermore, being able to recycle cheap weapons, armor, components, plants, and animal organs in the field ultimately allows you to carry far more weight before needing to drop off your loot.

Hell, you can craft random components you've looted into items to sell for far more than the components themselves would be worth, but that's just really the icing on the cake.

If you could invest in just one or two of the crafting skills and receive the best crafting benefits for a specific build (no secondary and tertiary requirements, in other words), that would be too overpowered, so in that sense, the interdependency is a good thing. The exception to this is probably a pure psionicist, who can fairly easily get away with just Electronics and some Biology without worrying too much about the rest.

The downside to all of this is that crafting skills are basically indispensable. You will have no access to any of the best equipment or consumables in the game unless you invest in not one, not two, but most likely a minimum of several of them. You will either be weighed down with tons of loot that's not terribly useful to you in the first place, or just leave it behind. Crafting skills can also serve as newbie traps when newcomers eventually discover there's no use (yet) for very high Chemistry or Biology scores, or that they need Tailoring to make metal armor that isn't shit.
 
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AetherVagrant

Cipher
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Now you've made me rethink trying to skip crafting entirely. I usually hate it, even when it's when it's done well, but some electronics and biology are looking mighty attractive, especially if i skip intimidate, hacking, weapons except for a little melee so my hakugenpunches can land, a little throwing is tempting for an opening assault into large crowds...

I have a couple night shifts coming up with little to do but stay awake, and since i found itll run okay on my ancient laptop im stoked i wont be playing snes roms for hours.
Speaking of which, is it possible to just transfer save files between computers, or do i need some kind of utility for it? (on steam version)
 

Abelian

Somebody's Alt
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
2,289
Speaking of which, is it possible to just transfer save files between computers, or do i need some kind of utility for it? (on steam version)
I didn't try transferring savegames for Underrail, but it worked for Crusader Kings 2. The default location is Documents\My Games\Underrail\Saves in your user directory.
 

AetherVagrant

Cipher
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Cool. Id heard some steam games aren't as simple as transferring the save files themselves. If I like this build tonight I want to keep him around.
 

Alfons

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Jul 25, 2014
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Now you've made me rethink trying to skip crafting entirely. I usually hate it, even when it's when it's done well, but some electronics and biology are looking mighty attractive, especially if i skip intimidate, hacking, weapons except for a little melee so my hakugenpunches can land, a little throwing is tempting for an opening assault into large crowds...
It's a simple question of what you want to use and whether or not you want to use a better/specific variation of that gear.

Did anyone beat the gauntlet? This is the first time I'm having trouble, it's such a pain in the ass I'm not sure I'm going to bother with it. I never understood the idea of having sections in RPGs where you are stripped of all your gear or abilities. Just looks fucking stupid to me, "Hey, remember all that cool gear you spent all that time acquiring? FUCK THAT! Here, have some other shit. Have fun asshole!" At least it's just a sidequest.
 

TwinkieGorilla

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Did anyone beat the gauntlet?

In my previous build, yes. Didn't bother with a lot of stuff I'd already done this time around since I mainly wanted to get to the newer stuff. That said, there is a part in this latest area that has had me stuck for the second day in a row now! Gah! Loving the challenge though. Almost got there tonight!
 

Alfons

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Did you actually beat it? I finished it, but I essentially won by a combination of being the shittiest competitor and dumb luck. What happened to me on the last level was that by the time I reached the second room I had just enough time to clear it and a couple of seconds later the electrical current ran across the floor. To be honest, I had no idea wtf was happening which is my fault but the way I got past it makes me unsure if it was a bug or intentional design. I essentially stood in a doorway while the current was running across the floor and I didn't get hit by it. The other guys were tied so they killed each other. Do you have any idea if the doorway part is intentional?
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Biology is indeed the only crafting skill with a defined upper limit (70). But the more powerful drugs are crafting-only and poisons are another reason to dabble into biology. And the release version will have more uses for biology.

Chemistry is different from biology although the two share some low-level uses and have a synergy. It's kind of a niche skill. Going for very high chemistry (100+) is totally useless for many characters, but very useful for some niches: chemical pistols/traps and high level explosives.

And indeed, there is a lot of overlap in crafting skills. On top of the obvious overlaps already mentioned, you might need biology or chemistry to craft special armor. Or electronics to add tacticool junk into your otherwise mechanical guns. Putting some points into all crafting skills is indeed very handy, just to deal with all the junk loot you get.

The downside to all of this is that crafting skills are basically indispensable. You will have no access to any of the best equipment or consumables in the game unless you invest in not one, not two, but most likely a minimum of several of them. You will either be weighed down with tons of loot that's not terribly useful to you in the first place, or just leave it behind.
It's a funny thing, isn't it? Some people on the Underrail forums just kept bitching how crafting is useless. This is where that got us. Crafting always was the way to get the highest level equipment and the intelligent way to deal with your loot. But now? All the best equipment is crafting-only. Hell, almost any useful equipment is crafting-only. (I really want to see enemies use some of the new stuff against you...) All the best consumables are crafting-only. Crafting requirements have been lowered so much that you can craft nearly everything even with 3 int. Crafting went from great to mandatory.

Did anyone beat the gauntlet? This is the first time I'm having trouble, it's such a pain in the ass I'm not sure I'm going to bother with it. I never understood the idea of having sections in RPGs where you are stripped of all your gear or abilities.
Heh, your character must've been very gear-dependent. Running the gauntlet is very easy for characters who are good at, well, running. Stealth is a huge advantage in some of the challenges. Other than that, you just need speed. I don't necessarily mean movement speed, but a fast way to get through the challenges, one way or another. If you take more time than the other two contestants, you will die. Only the fastest runner will get out alive.

The gauntlet also has a nice amount of replayability, since you get a random set of challenges each time.
 

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