Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[ST'Ranger]

"I like Classic XP more because... anyway there's no differences between Classic and Oddity so let me just choose Classic"

A moment of silence for our fallen brothers.

 

[Goblino]

Why can't we just appreciate the variety? Even at this stage it doesn't ruin the game for either mode, and has potential benefits to different play styles. Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with accommodating the casual sensibilities, so long as the hardcore audience is getting the treatment it wants. This sort of variety is how you get the babby audience interested without pandering and gurgling to communicate with them.

 

[Daedalos]

That's my problem. That was discussed already, possibly a dozen of times, but more than that - ST'Ranger scrupulously discribe all that matter about exp vs oddity just before your post, and you completely didn't got it.

I read his post. I just disagreed with it? I'm just saying, the difference between the two systems are not so great as some make it out to be, currently.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be multiple choices.. I'm all for different paths of leveling.

 

[Daedalos]

This XP system discussion just keep popping up again and again... maybe I should make a standard-issue copypasta response with Styg's original explanation of the oddity system, Pope Amole II's post about it and some additional stuff.

Intinium and in a previous version classic was the faster one. That's not an argument for one XP system or another. Keep in mind that we're still talking about alpha versions here. The devs haven't had time to playtest the entire game in years. However, I can say that you're pretty close to the intended XP curve. Depot A has been roughly level 10-12 affair for as long as it has existed. If you're considerably behind on classic, that's probably partially due to your playstyle - classic is much more sensitive to that sort of thing and it takes metagaming to maximize your XP gains.

You're right about the game being easy, 0.1.14 is the easiest Underrail has ever been. It had huge crafting changes, the first iteration of a new psi system, loads of new items and feats, level cap increase, all mostly to the player's benefit. Some of the issues from current live version have already been fixed in development builds, but proper testing and final tweaking of all systems will happen in beta.

That sounds really great. Thanks for the clarifications

I assume you're part of the development team, awesome! Any ETA on the next patch?

 

[Zdzisiu]

That sounds really great. Thanks for the clarifications

I assume you're part of the development team, awesome! Any ETA on the next patch?

Yeah epeli, you are part of the team whether you like it or not, and Styg doesn't even have to pay you, deal with it!

 

[Fenix]

I'm just saying, the difference between the two systems are not so great as some make it out to be, currently.

You are wrong, because I'll never ever play Underrail in Classic Exp, it mean you just don't feel difference sadly.
That difference is very relaxing for me, and in shitty stupid 100-points or 100% rating system this Oddity stuff alone add +15-20% to final review rating.

Sometimes I feel like Styg has long white beard and his true name start from M. )

 

[Lhynn]

Just started playing this. Is the feat Nimble working as intended?

I mean, i have -15% armor penalty from it, and im wearing a light armor with armor penalty 15, which brings my armor penalty back to 0, but im not getting the bonus to dodge it says i should. I mean, maybe its poorly worded.

 

[Fenix]

Where did you check numbers? On S you woudn't get all right info, true statistic on C.

 

[Alfons]

Just started playing this. Is the feat Nimble working as intended?

I mean, i have -15% armor penalty from it, and im wearing a light armor with armor penalty 15, which brings my armor penalty back to 0, but im not getting the bonus to dodge it says i should. I mean, maybe its poorly worded.

I noticed that not all 0 armor penalty is the same when using Nimble. The 0 from a 15% armor leaves you with less movement points than a 0 from a 5% penalty armor. I wouldn't be surprised if dodge/evade are affected by this as well.

 

[Lhynn]

Without armor i get my 15% to dodge and evasion.

Spoiler

With armor i dont get it, even if i still have armor penalty 0

Spoiler

 

[Alfons]

The 0 you get from nimble is not actually 0. Whether it's a bug or not I don't know but that's the way it currently works. If you put a 5% armor on it still wont be the same as no armor.

 

[epeli]

Oh no, Nimble is broken again?

Lhynn you're right, it's a bug. I can't pinpoint exactly what's broken this time, but if Nimble drops your armor penalty to 0%, the displayed armor penalty doesn't match actual armor penalty (you still get some penalty to stealth, dodge, evasion and movement points)

Oh and hey, thanks a lot for posting this! If you guys find anything that feels even remotely off, don't hesitate to post about it. New bugs like this are easy to miss, since Styg changes a lot of things around every version.

 

[Zdzisiu]

Oh no, Nimble is broken again?

Lhynn you're right, it's a bug. I can't pinpoint exactly what's broken this time, but if Nimble drops your armor penalty to 0%, the displayed armor penalty doesn't match actual armor penalty (you still get some penalty to stealth, dodge, evasion and movement points)

Oh and hey, thanks a lot for posting this! If you guys find anything that feels even remotely off, don't hesitate to post about it. New bugs like this are easy to miss, since Styg changes a lot of things around every version.

I wonder if nimble will ever work as it is supposed to, that thing is a constant source of problems.

 

[Fenix]

that thing is a constant source of problems

But it is my favorite feat!

 

[epeli]

I wonder if nimble will ever work as it is supposed to, that thing is a constant source of problems.

It used to work just fine! Then someone found an edge case rounding error -> Styg fixed that -> it kept happening -> different fix -> it broke in new and exciting ways -> changed again -> it's still fucked up.

Technically it shouldn't be hard to fix at all, yet somehow the problem has gotten worse every time someone has touched it. I guess Styg needs to stop applying more hacks to the poor little feat and take the time to sort it out properly.

 

[Fenix]

I guess we can return to first version, and just give it 16% armour penalty reduction, while in description it will be the same 15%.
No edge case rounding error. )

 

[Sykar]

It used to work just fine! Then someone found an edge case rounding error -> Styg fixed that -> it kept happening -> different fix -> it broke in new and exciting ways -> changed again -> it's still fucked up.

Technically it shouldn't be hard to fix at all, yet somehow the problem has gotten worse every time someone has touched it. I guess Styg needs to stop applying more hacks to the poor little feat and take the time to sort it out properly.

He should just let it add some extra dodge and/or evasion. Like 20 points maybe or a percentage. Forget about that armor penalty multiplier, it's more of a headache than it is worth. Or remove it altogether.

 

[ST'Ranger]

If the feat didn't reduce armor penalty, no one versed in the game mechanics would ever take it. As it is now, it is one of the more powerful feats in the game and enables Agility-based characters to have a strong power curve throughout the game.

 

[Sykar]

If the feat didn't reduce armor penalty, no one versed in the game mechanics would ever take it. As it is now, it is one of the more powerful feats in the game and enables Agility-based characters to have a strong power curve throughout the game.

That is beside my point. My point is that no feat is important enough to waste major time on it. If he does not get it bug free he should either make a simpler version which is less prone to be buggy or outright remove it.

 

[Alfons]

If the feat didn't reduce armor penalty, no one versed in the game mechanics would ever take it. As it is now, it is one of the more powerful feats in the game and enables Agility-based characters to have a strong power curve throughout the game.

Or just have 95% mechanical resist at 23% penalty.

 

[Lhynn]

I guess we can return to first version, and just give it 16% armour penalty reduction, while in description it will be the same 15%.
No edge case rounding error. )

So far this is the easiest solution.

On other news, im going for a rifle specialist with heavy armor. Any ideas for it?

 

[epeli]

True, armor penalty reduction is Nimble's main attraction. The defense skill bonus is there just to make it better for those who already prefer very light armor and agility.

My point is that no feat is important enough to waste major time on it. If he does not get it bug free he should either make a simpler version which is less prone to be buggy or outright remove it.

Styg doesn't care about time, only quality. But I want to clarify that this shouldn't be a major issue. Nimble is a very simple feat in the context of Underrail's systems (in contrast to some others that had to be slightly redesigned). I honestly have no clue how this keeps happening. I can only assume it's a chain of coincidences brought on by fixing bugs hastily and not testing the fixes.

Or just have 95% mechanical resist at 23% penalty.

For now! Metal armor being too good was noticed soon after 0.1.14 was released and the 95% resistance limit was added as a stopgap measure. The latest devlog had tweaks for metal armor.

I guess we can return to first version, and just give it 16% armour penalty reduction, while in description it will be the same 15%.
No edge case rounding error. )

So far this is the easiest solution.

I'm afraid it's not a solution. The rounding error really was a rare edge case, it only happened with some armor combinations totaling 15%. You ended up with red 0% on armor penalty and didn't thus get the bonus to defense skills.


By the way guys, there was some talk about flexible nimble on the underrail forums just recently. The core idea was to make its armor penalty reduction scale with agility. The concepts thrown around were 10 + agility, 12 + agility, 2 x agility and 15 + 1 per agility point above 5. Thoughts?

 

[Fenix]

It should be such that at Agi 3 I can get the same bonus as now (for my pistoleros build), I don't care for anything else. :D

12+Agi feel fine for that, but something should be done to reward high Agi builds.
Maybe something like 12+Agi=3+Agi x 2 if A
feverish formula, I suck terrible in math haha
I mean,your Agi till 3 add x1, any Agi higher than that counts x2.
So for build Agi=3 you'll get 15% armour reduction-bonus for defence, for Agi=10 you'll get 29% reduction-bonus to defence.

 

[Styg]

It used to work just fine! Then someone found an edge case rounding error -> Styg fixed that -> it kept happening -> different fix -> it broke in new and exciting ways -> changed again -> it's still fucked up.

Technically it shouldn't be hard to fix at all, yet somehow the problem has gotten worse every time someone has touched it. I guess Styg needs to stop applying more hacks to the poor little feat and take the time to sort it out properly.

I think I fixed it a few weeks ago for good. Maybe.

I guess we can return to first version, and just give it 16% armour penalty reduction, while in description it will be the same 15%.
No edge case rounding error. )

I would rather remove it than commit this blasphemy!

 

[Lhynn]

Well, i installed the game yesterday so its fully patched and everything, so the bug is there.
Also i was wondering, there seems to be too few feats, are you planning on implementing more?