Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Blaine]

Wow, that guy is obsessed.

Look, Immortal: There will already be 200 hours' worth of content in the game, and that's just for a single playthrough. Styg wants to implement player housing, and some players enjoy tinkering with player housing.

Do you have an actual argument against, other than a long-winded diatribe about how Styg's implementation doesn't meet your personal, highly specific, and largely subjective criteria for inclusion in the game?

Sometimes it's all right just to say, "I don't like it, and I wish you wouldn't include it," and perhaps offer your reasoning without also having to be the only one who's correct.

 

[Immortal]

do you have an actual argument against, other than a long-winded diatribe about how Styg's implementation doesn't meet your personal, highly specific, and largely subjective criteria for inclusion in the game?

I stated that doing housing upgrades this way is bad - objectively just bad, it goes against what a game should be - a feedback loop for player agency..
Then you asked me why.
I explained why.

If there's no time to implement it better then fine, I would probably say spend your dev time elsewhere or change the method in which you upgrade your house to quest flags or achievements over dumping cash into it.

Sorry I have an opinion you don't like sunshine. Next time don't ask me why if you didn't want to hear why.

 

[Sykar]

do you have an actual argument against, other than a long-winded diatribe about how Styg's implementation doesn't meet your personal, highly specific, and largely subjective criteria for inclusion in the game?

I stated that doing housing upgrades this way is bad - objectively just bad, it goes against what a game should be - a feedback loop for player agency..
Then you asked me why.
I explained why.

If there's no time to implement it better then fine, I would probably say spend your dev time elsewhere or change the method in which you upgrade your house to quest flags or achievements over dumping cash into it.

Sorry I have an opinion you don't like sunshine. Next time don't ask me why if you didn't want to hear why.

Objectively it is just a bit of fluff, the rest is just pure conjecture on your part. It's like complaining that the ice cream guy hands out a bit of extra chocolate topping for free even though you did not order it. It's still purely optional, and doesn't really affect the enjoyment of your ice cream.

 

[Immortal]

Objectively it is just a bit of fluff, the rest is just pure conjecture on your part. It's like complaining that the ice cream guy hands out a bit of extra chocolate topping for free even though you did not order it. It's still purely optional, and doesn't really affect the enjoyment of your ice cream.

I said it was a poor way of doing player homes.. I was asked why and explained my point.

This is like the ice cream man throwing ice cream at people and I say "Wow that's a poor method of ice cream delivery" then someone asks me to explain why I think so.
Then a small troll crawls out from under the ice cream truck and explains that it's nice to just have ice cream in the first place and I shouldn't complain because the ice cream truck is very beautiful.

 

[darthaegis]

So, I just noticed Underrail has got 94% positive reviews on Steam, giving it a "Very Positive" rating. I hereby ask of my fellow codexians to write some positive reviews, so the percentage goes up to 95%, which would give it an "Overwhelmingly Positive" rating on Steam, which may get some more people to buy this amazing game!

 

[Blaine]

So, I just noticed Underrail has got 94% positive reviews on Steam, giving it a "Very Positive" rating. I hereby ask of my fellow codexians to write some positive reviews, so the percentage goes up to 95%, which would give it an "Overwhelmingly Positive" rating on Steam, which may get some more people to buy this amazing game!

Careful, now. There are certain Codexers of the Age of Decadence persuasion who are just as likely to shit on the score as they are to bolster it.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Wait, why don't you want to buy my stuff?

Styg decided to go with the "oh people only want to buy certain things" aspect of Skyrim. Yeah, that makes sense in a location with a working economy maybe, but Skyrim at least gave you a person who would buy anything, and in Fallout, pretty much anyone will take any item if it has value.

Let me put it this way, you're in a desolate world, you're a trader, and some idiot has offered you an item you know you could sell for double the price. Well you obviously won't take it because you're a gun dealer, and this person is offering you gold pressed latnum[sic].

Now a lot of you reading this might be saying "Hey Hans, these are game mechanics, they're not based in reality."
Well, in response to that I have to say it's an immersion breaker to have the game pick the most frustrating game mechanics every time.

In a nutshell, this game is overly complicated.

Buy the amazing modern classic Underrail* today!

*All characters appearing in this work are fictional. Any resemblance to actual steamtards, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

 

[gestalt11]

Wait, why don't you want to buy my stuff?

Styg decided to go with the "oh people only want to buy certain things" aspect of Skyrim. Yeah, that makes sense in a location with a working economy maybe, but Skyrim at least gave you a person who would buy anything, and in Fallout, pretty much anyone will take any item if it has value.

Let me put it this way, you're in a desolate world, you're a trader, and some idiot has offered you an item you know you could sell for double the price. Well you obviously won't take it because you're a gun dealer, and this person is offering you gold pressed latnum[sic].

Now a lot of you reading this might be saying "Hey Hans, these are game mechanics, they're not based in reality."
Well, in response to that I have to say it's an immersion breaker to have the game pick the most frustrating game mechanics every time.

In a nutshell, this game is overly complicated.

Buy the amazing modern classic Underrail* today!

*All characters appearing in this work are fictional. Any resemblance to actual steamtards, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

I don't think this critique holds any water at all. Its kind of ironic that someone can have their immersion broken by not understanding real world economics. Something is only as "valuable" as what someone is willing to pay for it. If the merchant tells you he is not buying any leather armor because everyone he knows has plenty then it simply doesn't matter if your super leather rathound overcoat of awesomeness has a "value" stat if 50,000 its not worth jack to that merchant and he isn't gonna just sit on his inventory forever.

If the merchant could in fact "sell it for double the price" then he would be saying "I will buy 2 leather armor". When he isn't saying that then he can't actually sell it, even if the market at some future date will in fact would pay "double the price". Since they have gauged the market and determined that demand for leather armor is currently low then he will not actually be able to sell it for "double the price" until demand once again picks up.

Merchants don't just buy everything that walks through the door. They stock up an inventory and then move that inventory. They stop buying when their inventory is full. Once could possibly argue that a few rare items are so awesome that they are always saleable. But this would not be generic items.

If I have a Glock 9mm it is simply not the case that any particular Gun Dealer will buy it. The Glock 9mm is an extremely popular gun, if the store has plenty, which is highly likely, they won't buy it from except at an extremely low price. Granted since its popular there is likely some real liquidity in the market for that particular item, but since its so common it also going to have a huge difference between Bid and Ask. Similarly an item that is rare is extremely hard to move and while you might make better margins on it many merchants are simply not in the business of sitting on things forever.

There are tons of reasonable explanations for the system in Underrail at the moment. It may or may not be a good system game mechanics wise, its certainly not particularly simulation-y. But claiming its "immersion breaking" holds no water, there are plenty of reason a merchant will only buy a certain set of things, or will only buy them are stupidly low prices (which in game terms basically translates into not buying since its a gigantic pain in the ass the model the actual mechanics of merchant operating with such a wide Bid Ask when item can generate infiitely the low margins do not do what they should and drive people away).

 

[AetherVagrant]

once you get used to it (said the slave owners) it gets more and more palatable.

at first i hated the economy, then i realized most of the vendors are clustered reasonably close together, its not that big of a deal to visit them all, and they WILL take currency and certain items...
at first i thought it annoying, then i realized its not diablo and i dont NEED to hit up tyhe vendor after every single battle because there might be a +1.8 sword now instead of a +1.7

 

[Blaine]

i dont NEED to hit up tyhe vendor after every single battle because there might be a +1.8 sword now instead of a +1.7

Let's be real here: That is actually true in Underrail, especially if your character uses crafting skills. Some of the merchants even "level up" once or twice after you reach certain storyline milestones. That one high-quality medium frequency shield modulator you need, a certain high-quality gun frame, plasma cells for crafting shock bolts, Napalm C, hexogen, rare ammunition... you do have to wait an hour or so before merchant inventories reset, though.

My first character months ago ended up with around 37,000 charons; my current character has around 44,000 charons. That's without any Mercantile skill at all. I may have a problem....

 

[Atchodas]

What is newest trend on AR specialists ? I build them with Heaviest armor or it was nerfed at some point ?

 

[ST'Ranger]

What is newest trend on AR specialists ? I build them with Heaviest armor or it was nerfed at some point ?

Any of the three big defensive options works fine. I've tried all 3 in the latest patch, and each is an enjoyable and capable character. Strength requires less planning than the other two.

Taking Strength up to 9 is popular because it is efficient in terms of attribute distribution. You already need 7 to use most ARs, 9 only costs the two extra points. Heavy armor is still amazing, particularly if you are down with metallurgy. The real benefit here is the amount of additional points available to put into other secondary supporting attributes.

Pumping CON and using medium armor is also a strong option. The newest flak-based armors can be unbelievably strong (easily blocking 99% of bullets entirely), and high CON makes things like grenades, poisons, and psi attacks much less impactful on your health. The only real threat to this character's health is something like high-skilled energy weapons and maybe high-skilled snipers. CON also comes with some nice feat support if there's room in your character plan.

Stealth-dodge-evasion is still a strong option for just about any character because of the (hard-to-quantify) strength of initiation and preparation. It hasn't received any significant "upgrades" in the latest round of patches like the other two options, but it still works. On paper, the raw power of the other options is superior, but a stealthy character has a lot of qualitative benefits that make comparisons difficult.

 

[Atchodas]

Thanx for detailed post , i think i will go 9 Str 10 Per and then either 5 DEX 7 INT or 6/6
Picking these skills :
Guns , Throwing , Hacking , Lockpicking , Traps , Mechanics , Electronics ,Chemistry ,
which would be better 5 dex 7 int or both even ? or maybe 5 INT 7 dex?
Also i guess i dont need tailoring if i go for heavy armors ?
Also wondering if i can add Biology to my skills on the way ( will i have enough skill points trough the game to sustain this many skills ? )
and if so if i would better put 7 points in INT so i get more skill points ?

I Chose Suppressive Fire and Aimed shot as starting feats

i am skipping on all the Stealth , PSI , and Intimidation skills for different characters and playtroughs

 

[GarfunkeL]

Finally got off my ass and bought this at GamersGate.

 

[da_rays]

So, I just noticed Underrail has got 94% positive reviews on Steam, giving it a "Very Positive" rating. I hereby ask of my fellow codexians to write some positive reviews, so the percentage goes up to 95%, which would give it an "Overwhelmingly Positive" rating on Steam, which may get some more people to buy this amazing game!

I was gonna wait on full release to voice my opinion / give a steam review , but you just sealed the deal. gonna get on this when I arrive back from work. I rarely voice my opinion on forum/steam , but this little gem deserve it, im gonna put a bit of charcoal in the engine of that hype train. I wonder If i should make my review in french or english. Might go with my native langage rather than english , maybe ill get some more frenchie to board the train :D

 

[Ulminati]

Did my patriotic MtnDew™ty.



Also, came across this. I know we're probably too late in development to redo the UI, but me likey lots

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

You know, it really has to be said, but the one thing I find so admirable about this game and development is it's complete ignorance to modern trends and the accompanied tech race. Styg just keeps steadily tucking along with it's development with an unshaken belief and perseverance that makes Underrail undeaniably stick out among the vast ocean of "Me too" indie projects. Not to mention it's actual superb quality content.

 

[Blaine]

I know we're probably too late in development to redo the UI, but me likey lots

And thank God, because that huge gaudy crap can fuck right off out of Underrail.

I've begun to think lately that, in some cases, UI overhauls are nothing more than an expression of "the grass must surely be greener on the other side" or simply nothing more than someone's very specific personal preferences.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

Yeah. Not only does it completely NOT fit the Underrail aesthetic, it's generic/cliche/dime-a-dozen as fuck. Sorry, 'luminati (not sorry).

 

[Kem0sabe]

I know we're probably too late in development to redo the UI, but me likey lots

And thank God, because that huge gaudy crap can fuck right off out of Underrail.

I've begun to think lately that, in some cases, UI overhauls are nothing more than an expression of "the grass must surely be greener on the other side" or simply nothing more than someone's very specific personal preferences.

 

[Atchodas]

and then there is skyrim and SkyUI

 

[Sykar]

and then there is skyrim and SkyUI

Skyrim's UI is an abomination. Whoever designed it should be banned from game development for eternity.

 

[Ulminati]

Eh, I think the orange is a wee bit too bright and burns my eyes. Especially in darker areas. So I liked the icons. I guess there's no accounting for taste.

 

[old numbers]

Been playing a bit, but I see that the Oddity xp system seems to be preferred. Time to restart I suppose.

 

[ST'Ranger]

Eh, I think the orange is a wee bit too bright and burns my eyes. Especially in darker areas. So I liked the icons. I guess there's no accounting for taste.

It's a known quantity in visual aesthetics that rich colors and (visually) deep textures and anti-symmetric geometry "pop out" and are eye-catching. These traits make things appeal to portions of our brain over which no intellectual master rules. So it's no surprise that in a screenshot of Underrail + new-interesting-rich-color-interface, you'd feel drawn to the interface. However, there is an important consideration to be made.

The interface (apart from the quick bar) is all but invisible. Its dull presentation fades gently away from the (generally) beautifully-colored environments. It's something that is present but downplayed, it is the background to the foreground of the game world. The world objects are similarly downplayed. You usually recognize an actor or object in the world from their geometry because the coloring is all too subtle. Having everything colored subtly serves two purposes. First, it becomes easy to accentuate important items and locations by giving them slightly richer colors. Second, it creates an effect where the eye is not naturally drawn to any particular portion of the screen but rather takes in the entirety of the view. Whether this effect is an intentional leveraging of the downplayed color scheme is not clear, but it is clear that it is desirable. The effect of all these subtle colors together is greater than their sum. Underrail screenshot thumbnails are generally very eye-catching and have the appearance of hand-drawn paintings. A lot of that is due to geometrically interesting environments, but color plays a large part in it as well.

Brain-candy additions like the interface you showed are all a slippery slope. It's an endorphin-inducing distraction from the rest of the screen, rewarding you for mousing over it and clicking it by displaying its rich colors and deep textures and asymmetric geometries. To balance out this effect, you'd have to do similar to the quickbar. And then the chat window. And then interactable objects in the game world. Making these "additions" to the game ultimately hinders, downplays, or destroys the carefully crafted visual style therein. Interfaces like the one posted are not simply a distraction, they are a departure from the singular aesthetic appeal of Underrail. But it's hardly any surprise that someone who draws interface buttons (or similar) for a living would draw eye-magnets like that - they want their work to stand on its own and what better way than to make it stand out.