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Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Blaine

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Saw myself mentioned from a namesearch ... it's very likely a lot more people on the Codex would hate it if I were championing it. :smug:

Not everything is about you; in fact, very little is about you. Your notion that the Codex's collective opinion of a game is somehow based upon your personal stances is pure egotistical delusion. You are side entertainment, nothing more.

Speaking of polish however, Underrail is far, far more polished than most games are at release, with the exception of the need for a few copyediting passes. That's pure grammar, though. The game itself is otherwise virtually flawless and seemingly bug-free, which is a whole lot more than can be said for certain other titles I won't mention. I've also actually played the game for 50+ hours, and can state authoritatively that there is nothing Sawyerian about it.

Guys, guys, chill!

This is par for the course here at the Codex. Now that Grunker and Roguey have turned their gazes on this thread like a couple of eyes of Sauron, the rest of the Kodex Killer Klown Krew can't be far behind.
 

Grunker

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After reading this thread and reading about the game for a couple of hours I caved and purchased my first ever Early Access game. Time to pleh and find out whether I wasted 8 euros or will hail this as the second coming. I really like what Blaine told me earlier (and tuluse seems to be stating during this thread) about the combination between Fallout and Deus Ex gameplay. Ultimately that's what really sold me. Though I like the first two Fallout games and recognize that they are objectively great, they were never really my favourites. However a mechanically tight version of them sounds like haevan.

also I have a dumbass teenage crush on psionics and few rpgs have them
All in all I'm looking forward to trying this.

This is par for the course here at the Codex. Now that Grunker

I didn't mention Sawyer. You did. Bringing that debate into the thread after which you start to flail your accusing arms around and yell bloody murder at everyone else is amusing if a bit hypocritical.
 
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Doctor Sbaitso

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Saw myself mentioned from a namesearch, a reminder that Underrail is extremely gamist and Sawyerist in its systems and it's very likely a lot more people on the Codex would hate it if I were championing it. :smug:

Of course I'll do no such thing until the full release plus months for polish, not going to have my heart broken by an indie.

It has been peaceful here, away from the din of truculent discourse you crave. Here, you find no pretext to revile or partner for sport. Go then, your audience awaits.
 

Blaine

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I didn't mention Sawyer. You did. Bringing that debate into the thread

Nope. Someone else accused me of "being Sawyerist" to begin with, thus dragging that debate into the thread. Up until that point, everyone had pretty much been discussing the game and not bickering. Your very first post, on the other hand, was a big flamboyant butthurt spoof of the MS Word paperclip delivering a lecture about how your hero isn't as foolish as everyone believes he is. If it hadn't been for you (way to set an example, Mr. Moderator) and Roguey, the little interruption would have died after two posts. Instead, you, a staff member, deliberately chose to contribute to derailing the Underrail thread.

Yours was also the first post mentioning Roguey, in big bold letters no less, thereby attracting it to the thread.

Don't try to put this on me. You're as guilty as Ted Bundy.

....after which you start to flail your accusing arms around and yell bloody murder at everyone else is amusing if a bit hypocritical.

The irony of this coming from you after your entry into the thread is just too precious... and if my posts seem that way to you, then you're a histrionic drama queen. If anything, my responses were dry and to the point.
 
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Roguey

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Underrail discussion moved out of the Underrail thread, dee-lightful.

Not everything is about you; in fact, very little is about you.
Well, I am vain.

Speaking of polish however, Underrail is far, far more polished than most games are at release, with the exception of the need for a few copyediting passes. That's pure grammar, though. The game itself is otherwise virtually flawless and seemingly bug-free, which is a whole lot more than can be said for certain other titles I won't mention.

Good to know. Interesting then how that other poster said there's no way it'll be released this year, Star Citizen Blaine.

I've also actually played the game for 50+ hours, and can state authoritatively that there is nothing Sawyerian about it.
Aspects of Underrail that I believe are Josh Sawyer-approved:

All guns and energy weapons are folded into one skill
Melee and unarmed are folded into one skill
Guns, Crossbows, and melee seem to be viable combat paths, with throwing being specifically noted as a support-skill
Deterministic stealth and pickpocketing
Lockpicking and hacking use up consumables
Dual xp system: one traditional, one where xp is rewarded only through quests and finding items (whether through combat or stealth)
There is no stat that determines how much AP you have. There's a stat that changes movement points, and one that decreases the AP cost for specific weapons, but this is still more balanced than what dummies usually do (e.g. D:OS, Wasteland 2).
Likewise there's no stat that determines the number of skillpoints you get
Damage is reduced by either %-DR or flat-DT and both are separate from dodge/evasion.
Cooldowns for more balance
 
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Note that underrail provides a lot of choice, the xp system for example. Also it is possible to screw up your build in underrail. These two are clearly against Josh Sawyer's biggest Principles. Also Underrail has fun gameplay, while josh has failed to provide that in every project he ahs worked so far.
 

Roguey

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Balancing two different xp systems is outside of PoE's scope. Indies get a bit more freedom regarding certain things.

You can max out 8 skills and there are caps on how much you can put in at any given level, so if you somehow fuck that up, well, that's likely your fault.
 

epeli

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Edit: butthurt mod moved this from the underrail thread, which is why it makes little sense.

:lol: and I was wondering why the hell some posts disappeared. I guess I'm not demented after all

Speaking of polish however, Underrail is far, far more polished than most games are at release, with the exception of the need for a few copyediting passes. That's pure grammar, though. The game itself is otherwise virtually flawless and seemingly bug-free, which is a whole lot more than can be said for certain other titles I won't mention.

Good to know. Interesting then how that other poster said there's no way it'll be released this year, Star Citizen Blaine.

The core gameplay mechanics and existing content are indeed nicely polished and bug-free. But there's still a lot of content to be made, each update smoothly expands the game world.
 

Roguey

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Nice, PoE and Underrail are truly two fine ar-pegs to which to look forward.
 

Blaine

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I'm now up to a value of 338,380, or 11,279 Charons. This is in addition to large piles of every repair kit (except Advanced Electronic), piles of combat drugs, stims, and bandages, 50+ of each battery in stock, thousands of rounds of ammo (hundreds of JHP and W2C) for the firearms I plan to use in two levels when my skill is high enough not to miss 90% of the time, piles of MkIV HE, MkIV frag, and flashbang grenades, a truly ridiculous shield emitter which I'm about to craft, and badass Spiked TiChrome armor and hammer. My private quarters are full of high-end crafting materials waiting to be used.

I have yet to find any vendor selling a Chimera frame of higher than quality 72. In fact, that was the only time I ever saw a Chimera frame. I suspect there might be another "global vendor upgrade" later on down the main storyline, although if so, the skill requirements to craft modulated shield emitters with even higher-end components (almost everything tops out at quality 89 right now, though I once saw a q. 101 steel plate and have found q. 90-92 gun frames) must be insane.

dc83732b66.png


I didn't mention Sawyer. You did. Bringing that debate into the thread

Since you apparently got butthurt and moved your off-topic nonsense back into this thread while leaving mine in the containment thread, I'll just link to my retort there, setting the record straight:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...e-grognards-thread.94135/page-32#post-3537437
 

epeli

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I'm now up to a value of 338,380, or 11,279 Charons. This is in addition to large piles of every repair kit (except Advanced Electronic), piles of combat drugs, stims, and bandages, 50+ of each battery in stock, thousands of rounds of ammo (hundreds of JHP and W2C) for the firearms I plan to use in two levels when my skill is high enough not to miss 90% of the time, piles of MkIV HE, MkIV frag, and flashbang grenades, a truly ridiculous shield emitter which I'm about to craft, and badass Spiked TiChrome armor and hammer. My private quarters are full of high-end crafting materials waiting to be used.

I have yet to find any vendor selling a Chimera frame of higher than quality 72. In fact, that was the only time I ever saw a Chimera frame. I suspect there might be another "global vendor upgrade" later on down the main storyline, although if so, the skill requirements to craft modulated shield emitters with even higher-end components (almost everything tops out at quality 89 right now, though I once saw a q. 101 steel plate and have found q. 90-92 gun frames) must be insane.

dc83732b66.png
Has more batteries than he can carry... still uses 3 different haxors to occasionally save a tiny bit of electricity. I salute you, fellow min-maxer! :salute:

Vendors are quite random, but I think Oskar in Core City is the only one selling Chimera frames atm, unless you found someone else. The quality is also random, of course. Most shops indeed max out around QL90 atm, but you can get some higher quality components here and there, for example
the faceless group near Foundry reward you with a ~QL110 plasma core if you help them.
 

Machocruz

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Just got around to trying the demo. Man, the interface is a work of art. So elegant, so clean, no-fuss no muss. It's pretty much the ultimate :smug: to all the clown developers with millions of dollars and hundreds of workers at their disposal, who try to convince the plebs that you can't "refine" or "streamline" or modernize without sacrificing on the mechanics/systems front, without throwing the baby out with the bath water. And they still fail at providing UI refinement anyway. It's like this Styg guy is operating in an alternate timeline where man is a learning animal.

I've only killed rats so far, but is there (or going to be) Fallout-esque gore in the full game?
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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I resisted for a long while and now have picked up the alpha again. I'm playing through the GMS compound, which is bringing back very fond memories - I am getting strong flavours of System Shock and Fallout but with deeper, more polished systems and better combat. Yes, I said deeper and better.
 

Blaine

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Has more batteries than he can carry... still uses 3 different haxors to occasionally save a tiny bit of electricity. I salute you, fellow min-maxer! :salute:

Actually, the real reason I carry the haxxors now (besides just-in-case) is because they complete my "gadget bar." :lol:

ee29593c12.png


Three grades of lockpick, three grades of Haxxor, Omni-Tool, NVGs, compass, and the button to manually recharge the weapon and shield are already included in the shift menu (truly, Styg is excellent at UI design).

Unfortunately, I pumped my Lockpicking and Hacking skills a little bit higher than I suspect I really needed to (to 90 including the Jackknife, so that I could open difficulty 100 doors/containers with the MkIII tools if they exist, but then I raised INT again). I also pumped far more points into Biology than needed (it's at 96 after my recent INT raise), and probably a bit more than I needed in Chemistry as well since I'm happy with MkIV grenades. Hexogen is too rare to use two per grenade anyway.

If I'd known in advance exactly how many points I needed, I could have max Throwing, max Guns, max Melee, every crafting skill as high as I need to have it to make almost everything with top-quality components, both Lockpicking and Hacking as high as needed to occasionally need MkII or MkIII tools, and then also a fair bit in something else. I'm thinking Stealth, since the ability to craft Cloaking Devices and stealthy suits, shoes, and balaclavas actually gets my stealth to around 90ish, even with 0 base skill in stealth. :lol:

Vendors are quite random, but I think Oskar in Core City is the only one selling Chimera frames atm, unless you found someone else.

Nope, and in a dozen trips to his shop since I've been shopping for a Chimera frame, I've only seen the q. 72 as I said. It's good to hear the shops don't upgrade again in this release, since that means my investment in Guns won't come back to bite me in the form of even more amazing shield emitters I don't have the skill to craft.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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Sounds like your build is pretty powerful at this point. Hopefully things don't get easy?
 

Blaine

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Sounds like your build is pretty powerful at this point. Hopefully things don't get easy?

They do get a lot easier, unless I'm fighting anyone with a knife, especially if there are other enemies with things like nets, flashbangs, Kneecap Shot, etc. Absolutely every knife-wielding enemy in the entire game, with no exceptions, knows Crippling Strike. Thanks, Styg! One knife user can bring me to my knees, forcing me to ejaculate grenades and flee for the exit because they get to use Crippling Strike every turn and it stacks three times. There is no counter to Crippling Strike except to switch weapons, and even with knives my accuracy is severely reduced by the lost Strength since I have 4 DEX. One Crippling Strike is okay, two is dangerous, three means I'd better be on my way to the exit.

This is why I'm cross-training into Guns.

There are other dangerous fights to be had too, though they're almost always against human enemies. Psi is especially dangerous, since Bilocation is still hideously overpowered (or if not OP, then just "extremely powerful"). Pop on by a certain gang's hideout in a certain city and enjoy getting hit for 20-40 damage per hit, several hits in a row each, from two Bilocation doppelgangers. Psi beetles are still potentially dangerous to me in groups, since Chilled stacks force me to either use a grenade before I can't act, or flee.

Nah, I wouldn't say things "got easy." There are still fights that have me slamming my fists on the desk and cursing. All it takes is a knife user and a net user working in tandem.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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Sounds like your build is pretty powerful at this point. Hopefully things don't get easy?

They do get a lot easier, unless I'm fighting anyone with a knife, especially if there are other enemies with things like nets, flashbangs, Kneecap Shot, etc. Absolutely every knife-wielding enemy in the entire game, with no exceptions, knows Crippling Strike. Thanks, Styg! One knife user can bring me to my knees, forcing me to ejaculate grenades and flee for the exit because they get to use Crippling Strike every turn and it stacks three times. There is no counter to Crippling Strike except to switch weapons, and even with knives my accuracy is severely reduced by the lost Strength since I have 4 DEX. One Crippling Strike is okay, two is dangerous, three means I'd better be on my way to the exit.

This is why I'm cross-training into Guns.

There are other dangerous fights to be had too, though they're almost always against human enemies. Psi is especially dangerous, since Bilocation is still hideously overpowered (or if not OP, then just "extremely powerful"). Pop on by a certain gang's hideout in a certain city and enjoy getting hit for 20-40 damage per hit, several hits in a row each, from two Bilocation doppelgangers. Psi beetles are still potentially dangerous to me in groups, since Chilled stacks force me to either use a grenade before I can't act, or flee.

Nah, I wouldn't say things "got easy." There are still fights that have me slamming my fists on the desk and cursing. All it takes is a knife user and a net user working in tandem.

That warms my heart. :love:
 

Blaine

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I also had to reload after a fight with some Faceless not long ago. Let me tell you, Crawler Poison Caltrops are extremely useful items, at least until the fight is over and you have no choice but to walk all over the remnants to get to the loot. I still not infrequently have to use nearly every tool at my disposal in order to survive certain difficult fights. Crafting-focused, heavily-armored melee is probably the easiest combination to play as overall, but it still has its weaknesses.

Even during fights I'm almost guaranteed to win, conserving resources is an interesting enough challenge. I've developed lightning-quick reflexes to hit the Enter key when I hear siphoners hop out of the water.
 

polo

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Same thing with siphoners lol. After the first 2 killing me easily, waking close to water had me in a state of constant awareness.
 

polo

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AHA, i see what you did there.
Shame i cant brofist yet, but here, take my useless brofist:
:bro:
 

Doctor Sbaitso

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Mr Pope Amole II care to bring some insight to Blaine's? I'm not near as far along but I did watch your Underrail build guide and I'm curious to know your take on Blaine's observations.
 

Pope Amole II

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To be honest, I'm not really reading his posts because I haven't been playing the beta past the early spring's version (i.e., junkyard and some surrounding areas) as I don't want to spoil the game too much for myself. More than I already did, anyways - it's probably gonna be the best RPG of a decade and so I want to enjoy it as much as possible.
 

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