Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[MrMarbles]

Those screenshots are awesomesauce Great to see an RPG with entrances that look imposing and difficult to storm. Also love the staircase fading to black.

 

[Sykar]

Which exp method did you guys chose? I went with the combat gives no exp version, I so hate that crap by now.

 

[epeli]

Which exp method did you guys chose? I went with the combat gives no exp version, I so hate that crap by now.

I asked that a while ago on here and on underrail.com forums, here's the poll again http://strawpoll.me/2982385

Pope Amole II wrote an excellent post on xp systems, from a powergamer's point of view:

Oddity system is a much better one because it forces a more comfortable playstyle unto the player. Or, rather, it's the common experience one that drives you into specific behavior. See, it's all about the experience scaling - specifically, different kinds of experience scaling differently. Monster experience scales down (the higher you are in level, the less xp you receive), quest xp is constant, skill xp scales up. Therefore, it's much more beneficial for you to rush into combat first, killing as many foes asap there, and leave the quest stuff for the later. As an example to this, one of the ways to powerplay Underrail's early game was, instead of gaining that introductory level at the station, to rush straight into the caverns, slaughtering rathounds for that sweet 90 xp per body gain. And then you followed it through to that compound area, killing rats until you were almost level 3 (that's when they ended). If you did stuff this way then, at the end of introductory mission, you would be almost level 4. If not 4 already. Huge difference.

And so forth, and so forth. Of course, maybe I'm just a compulsive metagamer, but at the same time it always felt like the system was punishing you for not rushing into combat. Though, at the other hand, it also punished you for fighting the monsters too early - after all, there was a penalty for overleveling the monster but no reward for fighting it too early. So it also created this "Am I doing this right, am I not screwing myself here?" feeling. And let's not forget that combat can be pretty brutal in this game so screwing yourself is certainly not what you want.

Also, that system created lots of backtracking - oh, no, why would I finish this quest now when I could do it 5 levels later when the experience will be more precious than now? Oh, no, I won't open this cluster of 4 locks, I'll wait for some more so I'll gain an extra hundred xp out of this. Once again, you can blame personal habits here, but the game is hard enough to compel you into stuff like this. Whereas with oddities this is just cut off. More than that, you don't even feel the need to do some stupid stuff. Like, why would I bother to disarm these stupid mines when it's faster to blast them away? Or why would I open to pick that lock if it opens a route that I've already explored from the other side?

And one additional boon of the oddity system is that it creates different tempo for different characters (which isn't that strongly present in the average version). For example, upon arriving into a junkyard, a thief can steal both gangs' oddities, earning what, 6 points in the process? That's almost a level. Whereas the other classes will probably also gain those oddities, but not until much later into the game. It's a help to the stealth characters and, considering how much effort was put into creating a decent stealth system in this game, that's certainly appreciated.

 

[JoKa]

My thoughts on this:

Spoiler

Underrail! -

ARGHHHHH -

Everytime I start it up on Steam - Erection -
When I see a post by Styg on the 'Dex - Erection -
When I think of blood I think of love - Erection -
When I think of blood I think of love - Erection -
Oh, I got Erection -
Oh, I got Erection -
Oh, I got Erection -
Oh, I got Erection -

When I explore the Upper caves - Erection -
Once a rathound, now just a trophy - Erection -
When an enemy falls to the ground - Erection -
When I hear that industrial sound- Erection -
Oh, I got Erection -
Oh, I got Erection -
Oh, I got Erection -
Oh, I got Erection!

 

[StaticSpine]

Styg

Institute of Tchort. Is it about this guy?

I mean "tchort" is a Russian name for devil.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Styg

Institute of Tchort. Is it about this guy?



I mean "tchort" is a Russian name for devil.

I think you just blew up some suprise

 

[Styg]

Styg

Institute of Tchort. Is it about this guy?



I mean "tchort" is a Russian name for devil.

I think you just blew up some suprise

Dammit StaticSpine!

 

[Zewp]

Satanic agenda confirmed!

 

[imweasel]

I bought this on Steam the other day and was pleasantly surprised as to how good it is. :D

Keep up the good work, Styg.

 

[Sykar]

So far it's quite good in the first 2 hours.

 

[Sykar]

Any tips for a PSI focused character? I am already out of PSI and the only way to regenerate it are those horribly expensive PSI boosters and a perk which only works if I can find a Mindshroom. I can kill those rats with my pistol at the moment but since I didn't invest in gun skill it uses up quite a bit of ammo and constantly running back and forth to the doc feels a bit weird.

 

[Bubbles]

Any tips for a PSI focused character?

Wait for the next update.

 

[Sykar]

Any tips for a PSI focused character?

Wait for the next update.

Think I'll just invest a bit in a combat skill and hope it gets better later. If I can find a way to earn good cash it should be doable. Just do not know what to sell yet.

 

[epeli]

Sykar that experience will be completely different in the next version

But for now, you will run out of psi boosters in the very early game if you try to handle it with psionics alone. The free pistol and crossbow you get are useful against those rats even without any skills, they should help you conserve that precious psi early on. Don't be afraid to buy loads of psiboosters, there isn't much else you need money for. Also try to get your hands on the psi booster blueprint ASAP.

You will find yourself with a steady supply of psi hypos pretty soon. Usually right after the outposts mission for me, but your mileage may vary. After all, money becomes plentiful pretty quickly and psi hypos are the only thing a psionic needs to keep going. Don't let the beginning discourage you, a psi-focsed character in the current version will become an unstoppable powerhouse once you have most of your psi abilities and a couple of must-have feats.


The most important tips I have for you is not related to psionics, but general gameplay:
Always fight smart. For example, no reason to let those pesky rats in the outposts area even touch you when the area is full of fences and those dumb animals certainly can't open gates.
Also, try stealth if you already haven't. It's fun to play with, the stealth mechanics in Underrail are excellent. It helps you get into good positions and you can practically avoid all fights altogether if you specialize in it.
And even without stealth, remember that you can (and should!) always initiate combat mode, like it says on the interface help. Judging from few LPs I've watched, people don't seem to do this. But it's really helpful, especially so if your character doesn't have high initiative.

 

[Sheepherder]

Also, try stealth if you already haven't. It's fun to play with, the stealth mechanics in Underrail are excellent. It helps you get into good positions and you can practically avoid all fights altogether if you specialize in it.
And even without stealth, remember that you can (and should!) always initiate combat mode, like it says on the interface help. Judging from few LPs I've watched, people don't seem to do this. But it's really helpful, especially so if your character doesn't have high initiative.

Never managed to get stealth characters to work. Is there a way to restealth during combat?
Also, dodge and evasion seem to be inferior to heavy armor in terms of protection. Am I doing something wrong? Because even with Evasive Maneuvers activated and evasion over 500 I still get shot.

 

[epeli]

Never managed to get stealth characters to work. Is there a way to restealth during combat?
Also, dodge and evasion seem to be inferior to heavy armor in terms of protection. Am I doing something wrong? Because even with Evasive Maneuvers activated and evasion over 500 I still get shot.

Well, stealth is mostly about avoiding combat altogether or getting into vantage points and doing quick assassinations while infiltrating hostile territory. Or breaking into people's homes and stealing their stuff.

Restealthing during combat is hard, but doable. Incapacitated enemies don't see you (but stunned enemies do - not sure if bug or intended), so flashbangs are a fairly good option for restealthing from multiple enemies. Also, if you do manage to incapacitate all hostiles, you don't even need to enter stealth mode - just hide outside their line of sight before they recover and combat will end.


I could talk about dodge and evasion for days! Yes, they are indeed inferior to heavy armor in terms of pure damage mitigation. The key point is: you can not get a reliable chance to avoid damage on dodge/evasion alone, so don't try to rely on them alone for your defense. Ninjas and tanks have different playstyles.

The relevant game mechanics work like this. Chance to hit with direct attacks is based on attacker's weapon skill vs. defenders defense skill, but defense skills have a hard cap: When defender's effective dodge/evasion is twice the enemy's effective weapon skill, it will lower the chance of hitting by 60%. Other factors (distance, darkness, close quarters or move&shoot penalty, weapon condition, extremely low weapon skill, etc) can lower chance to hit further. Keep in mind that these mechanics are perfectly bilateral, so what works for you also works for your enemies and vice versa. That hard cap makes Evasive Maneuvers somewhat counter-intuitive: it may seem like a great choice for a character who has maxed evasion, but you usually get the same benefit from it with only mediocre investment in evasion.

As far as defensive archetypes go, the agile ninja will always be more vulnerable in direct combat (and especially vulnerable against all debuffs that drop defense skills to zero) than the slow, hulking tank wearing tons of metal plates. But thanks to no armor penalty, light armor bonuses and high agility, builds speccing in evasion/dodge will also have high movement points, initiative and potential for stealth on their side so they can avoid getting hit with other means, unlike better armored builds. Before energy shields were introduced, light armor builds were really squishy, but now they're pretty much equal with others in terms of overall survivability. Medium armor builds are generally somewhere between the two extremes: Not quite as forgiving as heavy armor, but nowhere near as fragile as light armor yet they retain some move points and stealth potential to (imho) make combat more interesting.

IMO lightly armored characters are hardest to play but also most rewarding, since they rely much more on tactics and in-depth knowledge of game mechanics. Or maybe that's just because I always use constitution as their dump stat. Hmm...

 

[Dormir Con Las Arañas]

I went ahead and bought the game, partly because of this thread (thanks guys, I gues?), Early Access be damned. And I'm happy to report that I'm liking it so far! Out of curiosity: just how much content is there in the game right now? I'm just wondering how much time you can spend with this thing during a single playthrough.

I guess (a very rough guess) between %70-80.

Playthroughs probably range between 30-60 hours depending on your playstyle and character build. (30 hours need either some experience with the game or skipping some areas)

Will saves be deleted on release like Divinity: OS? And if so are there multiple paths through the game to justify getting EA anyway like with AoD?

 

[epeli]

Will saves be deleted on release like Divinity: OS? And if so are there multiple paths through the game to justify getting EA anyway like with AoD?

Yes and yes.

 

[Lhynn]

Alright, bought the game, keep up the good work. Ill wait till is finished to play it.

 

[naossano]

Why wait? There's apparently a ton of content already in the game. I'm 15 hours in with no noteworthy bugs, and barely scratched the surface of the content.

Because the "first time you play something" is a special time. Can't speak for him, but if I play it now, I will have to wait for the final version when I reach the end of the current content. And since there may be changes, I want to have the full meal at once. I got to play other games on Early Access and I can say that it sucks when you need to stop halfway and wait for the game to be completed. You lose the momentum, and when you return to the game, you don't remember exactly where you was or what you were doing. And more than that, nothing you see is as interesting as the first time - no matter how good the content. So if you decide to start from the beggining again, it's a waste of a good and 'complete' experience; you already know the content.

Now that I figured it out, I will not burn my first experience with an incomplete work anymore. (At least in the case of RPGs, competitive or sandbox games are another story.)

Hard to say. It depends if you want a complete playthrough on first attempt or if you do an incomplete playthrough, then a deeper one of the second playthrough. It is back and forth for me. I became more and more tempted to do complete playthrough over the years, but some RPG that i tried recently, were way too long for my taste (like FoNV). I made a complete playthrough in order to not touch it again, but being that long, i don't think i'll do a complete playthrough on some future rpg (like TW3). But i think i'll try that on the RPG i like the most, unless i get tired at some point. Or end up finishing up the game early, by mistake. (like i did on Fo1 first playthough. I finished by escaping the unity HQs, without meeting the Master, without joining the BOS, without fully explore Necropolis questlines). In that case, i might need to replay the game again to get it all. It might also be interesting to do an additionnal playthrough, thinking outside the box. For instance, on my next DragonFall playthrough (didn't try the Director's cut, yet), i think i will try to waste as much money as possible, to check how the game react if i can't pay Alice.

 

[Sykar]

Sykar that experience will be completely different in the next version

But for now, you will run out of psi boosters in the very early game if you try to handle it with psionics alone. The free pistol and crossbow you get are useful against those rats even without any skills, they should help you conserve that precious psi early on. Don't be afraid to buy loads of psiboosters, there isn't much else you need money for. Also try to get your hands on the psi booster blueprint ASAP.

You will find yourself with a steady supply of psi hypos pretty soon. Usually right after the outposts mission for me, but your mileage may vary. After all, money becomes plentiful pretty quickly and psi hypos are the only thing a psionic needs to keep going. Don't let the beginning discourage you, a psi-focsed character in the current version will become an unstoppable powerhouse once you have most of your psi abilities and a couple of must-have feats.


The most important tips I have for you is not related to psionics, but general gameplay:
Always fight smart. For example, no reason to let those pesky rats in the outposts area even touch you when the area is full of fences and those dumb animals certainly can't open gates.
Also, try stealth if you already haven't. It's fun to play with, the stealth mechanics in Underrail are excellent. It helps you get into good positions and you can practically avoid all fights altogether if you specialize in it.
And even without stealth, remember that you can (and should!) always initiate combat mode, like it says on the interface help. Judging from few LPs I've watched, people don't seem to do this. But it's really helpful, especially so if your character doesn't have high initiative.

How come?

 

[epeli]

How come?

The psi system is getting a major change that will make the early game easier for PSI focused characters. Read Styg's devlog post on the previous page.

 

[Sykar]

How come?

The psi system is getting a major change that will make the early game easier for PSI focused characters. Read Styg's devlog post on the previous page.

Mh, massively smaller pool but with inbuild regeneration. Could get interesting.

 

[agris]

excellent

one thing thought

that pool table in the pics seems way overscale

maybe its a post apocalyptic giant pool game maybe

That is a huge fucking pool table. The sticks are larger than the people.

Also, the flammable gas cylinders are ~ 7ft tall. You couldn't work the regulator on the top of them!

 

[Bubbles]

That is a huge fucking pool table. The sticks are larger than the people.

Also, the flammable gas cylinders are ~ 7ft tall. You couldn't work the regulator on the top of them!

It's science fiction, not reality. "What if we lived in a dystopian future in which the pool tables were much larger?" is a perfectly valid story hook.