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Underrail [PRE-RELEASE THREAD, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
7,428
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Villainville
MCA
This shot makes me think that it would be awesome to play a grid-based game where a characters occupied four squares but could as little as one square in any direction.

console.gif
 

Styg

Stygian Software
Developer
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
742
Location
Serbia
Weapon Ammo

Ranged weapons now use ammo - bullets, energy (recharged from energy cells like other rechargeable items) and bolts for firearms, energy weapons and crossbows respectively.

First two also have limited magazines (depending on the weapon) so once you're out of bullets (or used up all the energy in case of energy weapons) you'll have to reload. The crossbows do not need manual reloading as you're effectively reloading it after every shot.

I've added magazine indicator to help you keep an eye on when you need to reload.

MagazineIndicator.gif


When the firearms are concerned you'll only be able to load the bullets of matching caliber into a gun, of course. There's also specialized ammo types such as armor-piercing and anti-personnel rounds.

5mmJHP.gif
5mmW2C.gif


This will effect the gameplay in two ways.

First, it will allow more tactical options of what ammo type to use against which opponents. For example, you'll want to use anti-personnel ammo against various critters and unarmored humans, while using armor piercing rounds to more easily destroy sentry bots and turrets. And because you're allowed a primary and a secondary weapon, you can load different types of ammo into each if you're facing a mixed crowd. Also, when out of combat, you'll be able to load your firearm bullet by bullet, setting up your magazine just right for the coming fight.

Secondly, because ammo is another resource you have to manage now, you'll be required to use it more sparingly and more intelligently. For example, you might not want to kill off each rat with your high caliber sniper rifle if whacking it with a crowbar can do the job. Remember, bullets will both cost money (or equivalent value goods) and be in limited supplies.
 

Styg

Stygian Software
Developer
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
742
Location
Serbia
Radial Menu

The different loading options for weapons (full magazine, single bullet) resulted in a need for items to have multiple 'capabilities' as I call them. This in turn required some sort of context menu to appear when using these items from your inventory, so I created a radial menu control.

RadialMenuOnItems.gif


You can also use this control to set the active 'capability' on the item you've dragged onto the action bar. An icon representing the currently assigned capability will appear alongside the item icon in the lower left corner as well.

In the process of doing this I also fixed a number of interface bugs and tweaked a few things I meant to for a while.

Making changes to UI and producing new types of controls is one of my favorite stuff to do. Perhaps because it's easy and I get to see the results quickly, owing to the solid and versatile UI framework I wrote as the part of the game engine way back at the beginning of this project. I can't remember exactly anymore, but I think I wrote it even before I set the foundations for the isometric rendering component. It's likely because the rendering component is a UI control itself (that is, it derives from the base control class).

Anyway, in some future iteration I intend to implement the radial menu as the context menu of usable objects for invoking alternative actions. So you'll be able to, say, right click the door and choose between opening them (default action), locking them and picking the lock, instead of having to invoke these stuff first and then target the door.

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Click if you'd prefer to keep an eye on Underrail dev log through an RSS feed.
 

Styg

Stygian Software
Developer
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
742
Location
Serbia
Turn Based Combat Mode

I wasn't happy with how the combat was working out, so I was playing around with damage to health scaling, combat speed and other parameters. But I couldn't strike the comfortable middle between too quick and hectic (narrow corridors, obscuring walls and other isometric stuff didn't help much here) and too dragged out and unnatural. So last week I set down and implemented a turn based combat mode.

I considered doing this before but I was reluctant due to some real-time dependent (not necessarily combat) features I have planned. But I gave it another thought and I think I can still manage it despite the combat being turn based.

TurnBasedCombatPreview.gif


So about the combat: Not all skills and abilities are implemented to work with turn based combat yet, but it's coming along nicely. The system I'm currently using is action point based with separation between action (all purpose) points and movement points (green and yellow on the interface respectively). I'm still deciding on how much of each a character should have and what stats should influence them.

In the following week I'll be mapping the rest of the stuff to work in turn based combat as well. As for the future of the real time combat in the game, it will still stay for battles that don't include the player character, but the player combat will probably be exclusively turn based as I don't want to have to balance all the encounters for both. Have too much stuff to do as it is.

-------
Click if you'd prefer to keep an eye on Underrail dev log through an RSS feed.
 

curry

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
4,010
Location
Cooking in the lab
I wasn't happy with how the combat was working out, so I was playing around with damage to health scaling, combat speed and other parameters. But I couldn't strike the comfortable middle between too quick and hectic (narrow corridors, obscuring walls and other isometric stuff didn't help much here) and too dragged out and unnatural. So last week I set down and implemented a turn based combat mode.

I considered doing this before but I was reluctant due to some real-time dependent (not necessarily combat) features I have planned. But I gave it another thought and I think I can still manage it despite the combat being turn based.

So about the combat: Not all skills and abilities are implemented to work with turn based combat yet, but it's coming along nicely. The system I'm currently using is action point based with separation between action (all purpose) points and movement points (green and yellow on the interface respectively). I'm still deciding on how much of each a character should have and what stats should influence them.

In the following week I'll be mapping the rest of the stuff to work in turn based combat as well. As for the future of the real time combat in the game, it will still stay for battles that don't include the player character, but the player combat will probably be exclusively turn based as I don't want to have to balance all the encounters for both. Have too much stuff to do as it is.

I'm glad you took my advice :salute:
 
Joined
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FUCK YEAHR!
:bro::yeah:

Just out of curiosity, what exactly didn't work in real time? Wouldn't it work with RTwP with conditional pauses? Perhaps you could also try phase-based or simultaneous single action turns?
 

Styg

Stygian Software
Developer
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
742
Location
Serbia
Thanks for the support, guys.

Now if you could just add just one or two followers then it would up it even more.
I might implement some sort of controllable pets at some point, though it's a feature low on priority list. Other than that the game is meant to be played with a single character that can only utilize certain (though potentially wide) set of skills the player decides to develop.

Not sure how much loading a single bullet matters, though. Just have everything in clips and load whole clips and leave an extra clip if there's leftovers. Too minute of a detail to load bullet by bullet.
Well it was easy enough to implement and it's completely optional. The default action is to reload the entire magazine with the chosen bullet type.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly didn't work in real time? Wouldn't it work with RTwP with conditional pauses?
As I said, it was hard to set up a good 'tempo' of combat. I thought about conditional pauses, but I'm not too fond of them.

I think that RTwP works best when the playing field is wide and open, the unit movement speed is low to moderate and when you get to set up orders for multiple units and watch them carry them out. The situation in this game is quite the opposite. I found myself having to pause the game too often and repositioning was usually impossible outside of using crowd control abilities on the enemies.

Perhaps you could also try phase-based or simultaneous single action turns?
I prefer turn-based to those. Also, those would be harder to (properly) implement in retrospect.
 

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
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May 14, 2004
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37,241
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA
SO happy to see you come around to TB combat Styg. You are now a BRO.

Keep us updated, looking forward to this!
 

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,487
Location
casting coach
What kind of turn-based are you exactly looking at, at the moment? For a single character game, I think the usual roguelike might be the best choice - every single action is inputted on its own, and enemies move between that action and your next one if they're fast enough (different actions take different amounts of time, also your characters speed affects the time). It also should translate well to switching between real-time (noncombat) and turnbased (combat) modes.

If you didn't properly understand how the system works, here's quoting ADOM manual:

Speed
-----
Actions in real life rarely are synchronous. Beings rather act
individually, move with different speed and are either slower or
faster than others. ADOM simulates this by using a 'speed system'.
The core notion of this system is that every character and monster has
to collect a certain amount of energy to be able to act. Some beings
are able to gather this energy faster and thus can act at higher
speed, others gain this energy more slowly and thus act in a slower
way.
To be able to act once in ADOM your character needs to
accumulate at least 1000 energy points. Every acting being has a
'speed rating' (SR) and a current energy rating (CER). ADOM divides
each player turn into a number of segments. In each segment every
being on the current level adds its speed rating to its current
energy. Each being that passes the '1000 energy minimum' with its
current energy rating is allowed to act. Afterwards the CER is
reduced by 1000 (in most cases).
All Player Characters start with a basic speed rating of 100
which basically means that they can act once every 10 segments. This
rating can be modified by class (monks and beastfighters get faster
with more experience), dexterity (a score of 17 or higher can be
helpful), encumbrance level (the more you are encumbered the slower
you get), alcohol level (being drunk is not a good idea in all cases),
satiation level (a full stomach makes you move slower... starving
doesn't help either), your Athletics skill, and special items. Being
born under the sign of the Raven also helps.
Your energy can never be lower than 1 (although this spells
certain doom) and is not limited by any value. The only limit is that
you can act only once per segment (even speed scores of 2000+ can't
help in this respect... although they are impossible to attain in any
case).
Most monsters also have a base speed rating of 100, although
there are exceptions. Be prepared to face changing speed
monstrosities occasionally.
Finally you need to understand that some items don't increase
your overall speed score but might limit the energy costs for certain
actions (e.g. seven league boots could require you to expend but 500
energy points to be able to move -- thus you could move faster, but all
other actions would be carried out at normal speed).
This is also true for weapon skills which are able to reduce the
amount of energy required to stage an attack (see the section on
weapon skills for details).

SPECIAL NOTE: If you are setting your tactics level to 'coward' and
then simply move around without attacking anything, such a move only
costs 800 energy points *if* your hitpoints are reduced to one-third
their starting value or below (panic does that to you -- and since
ADOM basically is a heroic game we'll ignore other wound effects).
Remember this when you try to run away!
Thouggh that might be pretty confusing to just read too, if you haven't played roguelikes before.
 

Styg

Stygian Software
Developer
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
742
Location
Serbia
What kind of turn-based are you exactly looking at, at the moment? For a single character game, I think the usual roguelike might be the best choice - every single action is inputted on its own, and enemies move between that action and your next one if they're fast enough (different actions take different amounts of time, also your characters speed affects the time). It also should translate well to switching between real-time (noncombat) and turnbased (combat) modes.

If you didn't properly understand how the system works, here's quoting ADOM manual:

Thouggh that might be pretty confusing to just read too, if you haven't played roguelikes before.

It's going to be action point based, similar to Fallout and Arcanum.

I understand the system you're describing, but it wouldn't fit well as the game just does not have (and is not meant to have) the mechanics of a roguelike.
 

Johannes

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
10,487
Location
casting coach
What exactly would the roguelike mechanics be that make that system viable (and are lacking here)? I'm curious because it is, in most aspects, the closest thing to real-time mechanics after all.
 

Styg

Stygian Software
Developer
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
742
Location
Serbia
What exactly would the roguelike mechanics be that make that system viable (and are lacking here)? I'm curious because it is, in most aspects, the closest thing to real-time mechanics after all.
Well, movement for example.

In roguelikes you only occupy a single tile on the grid and can only move one tile in any direction, and you do so instantaneously (when your turn comes).

Conversely, though my engine is also tile based, the movement is not restricted in such a way, the movement is also animated, and you also move by choosing the end location and then have the path calculated, rather then moving manually step by step there.

I guess what you have in mind is something alike the system in Eschalon games. I'm not saying it couldn't work, but that's not something I intend to do with this game.
 

Styg

Stygian Software
Developer
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
742
Location
Serbia
Progress on TB Combat Conversion

I'm finished with changing stuff to work with turn based combat for now. I converted most of the abilities, psi powers, items and feats. The change was usually straightforward with the exception of stuff that affected movement and attack speed which sometimes required redesigning.

The only thing that I haven't touched yet is the stealth system and related abilities, feats, etc. I have some idea of how detection will work in turn based mode but it's going to be a bit tricky to implement. There's also some other AI related stuff that doesn't work as reliably as it should yet. I'll deal with these things later, as they are not critical to this iteration.

TbcMovementEstimation.gif


I also added a few more features to the turn based mode UI. When you want to move to a another tile a path will be visualized for you. The color of the path segments will tell you how far you can get with only using movement points and how far you can go if you use action points as well. Also, the points you'd spend on this action will be highlighted on the action point bar. And for those situations when you need to micromanage your action points, there's also a numerical display on how many points you currently have, how many you'll spend on this movement and how many will you have left.

If you don't like some of these features and think they're clogging up the interface, don't worry, you'll be able to turn them on/off individually in the final game.

These features only work with movement action for now, but they'll work with all actions in the end.
 

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