Preview Tyranny Previews - Gameplay Footage and Conquest Mode Details

[Florian Gheorghe]

wonder if they fixed the loading problem.

 

[Kev Inkline]

Once again a bunch of aspies splitting hairs ITT...

Quick reminder : infodumps are every science-fiction and fantasy book's bane ; they're not CRPG's prerogative, and if there was a universal solution to them, it would be known, trust me.
And if you think you've found this game's writing's secret flaw, just fuck off, this system is not ideal, but it's fine. At least tooltips are more elegant than the "unnatural infodump dialog + external menu encyclopaedia" formula.

If you don't like footnotes the posts in this thread, don't read them.

 

[vortex]

wonder if they fixed the loading problem.

It's not a problem. This is how the engine works. Though, it could get better.

 

[Infinitron]

The load times in the Polygon video seem good, but who knows what sort of machine he's playing on. Also, it's the beginning of the game.

 

[Sizzle]

The load times in the Polygon video seem good, but who knows what he's playing on. Also, it's the beginning of the game.

Also, didn't they say that Tyranny is on the new version of the Unity engine, which has much better load times?

 

[Infinitron]

The load times in the Polygon video seem good, but who knows what he's playing on. Also, it's the beginning of the game.

Also, didn't they say that Tyranny is on the new version of the Unity engine, which has much better load times?

I tried asking once if they'd implemented the load time improvements planned for PoE2 in Tyranny, but I didn't get an answer.

 

[Haba]

I think you could argue that gaining information from footnotes is organic and natural to this game's setting. You could think of it as your Fatebinder consulting his notes.

During a conversation?



Not sure if you correctly understand the concept. I would be willing to accept that argument if the game would mechanically react to such, i.e. "By Kyros' balls, look at the aspie fatebinder freezing up in the middle of a conversation again... must be checking his internal wikipedia articles"

Quick reminder : infodumps are every science-fiction and fantasy book's bad writer's bane

Let me repeat: there is absolutely no need to dump information in fiction. Absolutely. No. Need. Show, don't tell.

The universal solution is not to explain things that don't need explaining. You as a writer do the world building and figure out how things work. 90% of that does not need to be explicitly explained. The things that do you can write in naturally, without going to the "good morning my childhood friend and next door neighbour friend, it is me Mary Sue!" -territory. It is just a little bit more effort.

The problem is that a lot of writers are so in love with all the brilliant lore they have made up (or technobabble in the case of sci-fi) that they absolutely feel that they must share all of it with their readers. After all, it is hard to let a lot of hard work "go to waste".

"Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass."

In the example I posted, the "lore tooltip" takes away the interpretation of small details from the player. Imagine if the next conversation option gave the option to confront the soldier "That sounded almost like praise. It seems that the traitor Cairn still held in high regard within <faction>...". With a few lines of dialogue, you could reveal the same information, while giving meaningful interaction options.

This is not splitting hairs, it is a tangible issue that leads to degenerate design throughout the game. Sure it can be ignored if the rest of the game is good, but Obsidian's strength was supposed to be the writing.

 

[Infinitron]

I think you could argue that gaining information from footnotes is organic and natural to this game's setting. You could think of it as your Fatebinder consulting his notes.

During a conversation?



Not sure if you correctly understand the concept. I would be willing to accept that argument if the game would mechanically react to such, i.e. "By Kyros' balls, look at the aspie fatebinder freezing up in the middle of a conversation again... must be checking his internal wikipedia articles"

O_o Look at that aspie Vault Dweller freezing up in the middle of combat again.

You're a Fatebinder and this is a short game that throws you right into the thick of things. IMO it can be excused for not spending an extended amount of time setting up a Valve-style "organic natural exposition".

 

[Haba]

You're a Fatebinder and this is a short game that throws you right into the thick of things. IMO it can be excused for not spending an extended amount of time setting up a Valve-style "organic natural exposition".

Great! Then cut out everything that doesn't deserve the time required for that.

 

[ArchAngel]

Suggesting to ignore the tooltips doesn't really solve anything that's inherently wrong with this approach.

I would say Haba has something of a point here: Gaining information should feel natural to the setting, organic even.

Actually in books you follow a character that already knows more than a reader, readers dont' need to know all that stuff, they just need to know enough to be able to follow the story and understand what is going on.

In game you play the character, you need to know all that character knows. You are asked questions and expected to make decisions.
It is completely false to compare writing in a RPG with reading a book. And we already know the way PoE did it was bad, the way Tyranny does it is way better. It is similar to using books like BG or Elder Scrolls or having a huge Civpedia like Civ games do it but more available to players playing the game.

 

[Schizophrenic monolog]

Anal rape could be good if performed gently. So what? It's a stressful mechanic that brings nothing positive to the game. The only reason they put it here is because Feargus said "No, Fuck You, I want replayability in my games" and they decided to do this fake gating through time pressure. It's sad how marketing still dictates design decisions in 2016. They learned nothing.

You had me at ANAL RAPE!!!

 

[Sizzle]

The question that remains is if these will contain any information you absolutely need to know if you want to proceed in the game (when playing for the first time, and if you, hypothetically, don't know anything about it), or if you can safely ignore having to read them.

 

[Neanderthal]

Info dumps, great when interrupting gobshiting, terrible when are gobshiting, who knew?

 

[entr0py]

Now, if someone could instead make a game where I can lead a mercenary band from a battle to another, low-magic, turn-based, budget-managing - that would be cool...

^^ Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

You are welcome

 

[Kev Inkline]

Now, if someone could instead make a game where I can lead a mercenary band from a battle to another, low-magic, turn-based, budget-managing - that would be cool...

^^ Shadowrun: Dragonfall - Director's Cut

You are welcome

Why, thank you! That is an answer I didn't know I was looking for. Something a true brother would give - a bro with whom I could go to any battle and be victorious.

 

[Lacrymas]

Haba is absolutely correct. Everything that is outside the narrative is by definition extraneous and unnecessary (in the best case, the worst case would be if it was necessary to understand the plot). This also goes back to the whole "omniscient UI" problem, but it's less severe in this case. We don't need to know absolutely everything, in most cases it's actually better that we don't because plot holes are more easily avoidable by the writer. People have been arguing that a game isn't like a book, while this is true, I haven't seen a lot of examples where games aren't treated like books. Obsidian sure have, the paragraphs upon paragraphs of explanations in PoE means they've completely neglected the visual aspect of games. Attaching appendices (the clicky words) to works is something more common in dissertations or science books, not games. Writers have to convince us that their writing is good and worth reading, it's not our job to "immerse ourselves" or "read the corresponding wiki articles for maximum information".

 

[adddeed]

wonder if they fixed the loading problem.

It's not a problem. This is how the engine works. Though, it could get better.

So fixing the problem would be changing the engine you dumbfuk. It is a problem. Engine bound or not. Bozo.

 

[jungl]

be cool if you can win one of your party members trust then rape them then put a edict on their ass that it will NEVER recover till they apologize to YOU.

 

[Fry]

Haba is absolutely correct. Everything that is outside the narrative is by definition extraneous and unnecessary (in the best case, the worst case would be if it was necessary to understand the plot). This also goes back to the whole "omniscient UI" problem, but it's less severe in this case. We don't need to know absolutely everything, in most cases it's actually better that we don't because plot holes are more easily avoidable by the writer. People have been arguing that a game isn't like a book, while this is true, I haven't seen a lot of examples where games aren't treated like books. Obsidian sure have, the paragraphs upon paragraphs of explanations in PoE means they've completely neglected the visual aspect of games. Attaching appendices (the clicky words) to works is something more common in dissertations or science books, not games. Writers have to convince us that their writing is good and worth reading, it's not our job to "immerse ourselves" or "read the corresponding wiki articles for maximum information".

I'm not exactly sure how you explain a complex political scenario visually. It's certainly not something movie or TV writers do well. Perhaps you could provide some examples.

For video games, I think an in-game encyclopedia is probably the least worst option. Put things the player absolutely needs to know in dialog, and let them dig for the rest if they care.

 

[vortex]

So fixing the problem would be changing the engine you dumbfuk. It is a problem. Engine bound or not. Bozo.

Seamless level loading or instant level load is not a problem, it's engine feature. If you code this in the engine, great. But, I wonder how system requirements would change after this implementation.

 

[Seari]

Art direction in this game is fucking abysmal, it looks so fucking bad.

 

[Lacrymas]

Fry, nobody has said to explain complex political scenarios visually, only those which are appropriate to do so and a lot of them are. The writer has to decide what we need to know, not populate the UI with pointless information after pointless information (literally, since it's not "needed for the narrative" and we don't need environment descriptions in gaming because visual medium) for us to "dig if we care". He has to make us care and then show us what he wants to show us, that may be done in in-game books as well, if deemed appropriate. Like I said, it's not our job to force ourselves to care.

 

[Bester]

Look at the codex's top 75 RPGs? Most of those games explained their entire setting without a single infodump. And they didn't always use the amnesia exploit, so it's just doable. End of story.

Obsidian realized that they can't write and gave up on the idea of trying to intertwine setting explanations with the story and the dialogues naturally. Gave up. They now know their place and how shit they are. "Fuck improving and fuck you. Eat our shit."

 

[Fry]

Prologues count as an infodump.

 

[Neanderthal]

I liked way Anarchists were presented in mortuary wi Vaxis, settin up factions, their opposition an intrigues, as well as reinforcin your alignment through just talkin to im. An you'd already been introduced to Dusties, their roles an beliefs through experiencin em, an could become more involved or less as you wanted. Even Xaositects got a fairly good intro wi Barkin Wilder showin faction power an Starved Dogs Barking quest from Sev'Tai.