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Game News Tyranny Dev Diary #4: Meet the Archons

Kev Inkline

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I bet their abilities are highly exaggerated. Since this a deep dank dark setting similiar to game of thrones and a high fantasy one I'm sure a poison dart to the neck could instant gib one of these archons.
This. Think of all the propaganda (allegedly) spread in N-Korea about Supreme Leader's abilities and skills, and project that to bronze age.

I would actually like a game setting with no magic, but people just believing and seeing things. So instead playing a mage, you'd choose a charlatan or somesuch class, and most of the 'spells' cast would be actually elaborate tricks requiring sleight of hand to manipulate perceptions of the common folk.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Just can't get interested in this game after the betrayal of PoE. Fool me once obsidian...

Then why did you click on the thread?
Hope that Obsidian leaves her bland period and return making decent storyfag games with awful gameplay instead of bland storyfag games with awful gameplay.

Decent storyfag games like KOTOR2, with its Archons Sith Lords?

SION, SITH LORD OF PAIN.

NIHILUS, SITH LORD OF HUNGER.

We get it, you've gotten too old to find out-of-context fantasy lore exciting. The rest of the nerds out there still think it's cool, though. Updates like these are for them, not for you.
 

Sannom

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This. Think of all the propaganda (allegedly) spread in N-Korea about Supreme Leader's abilities and skills, and project that to bronze age.
Should we assume that the short stories are propaganda tools too? Because we got a hint of the Archon of War's Exarch power in one of those before we got a confirmation/explanation in this update.
 

Kev Inkline

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
This. Think of all the propaganda (allegedly) spread in N-Korea about Supreme Leader's abilities and skills, and project that to bronze age.
Should we assume that the short stories are propaganda tools too? Because we got a hint of the Archon of War's Exarch power in one of those before we got a confirmation/explanation in this update.
Could be only wishful thinking on my part , as I wish that Archons were not some super-duper humans.
 

ZagorTeNej

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Play Myth: The Fallen Lords and its sequel if you want to know what sort of vibe they're going for here.

(Actually you should just play Myth, period)

You absolutely can't achieve Myth's vibe in a game rife with combos, cooldowns and flashy abilities that slowly whittle down enemy health. In Myth magic is extremely rare and extremely powerful which makes it a grand sight to behold compared to mundane regular troops that can mostly just swing swords and shoot arrows, they're grounded in reality where magic is something completely alien to them, something that is as mysterious as it is deadly.

Myth feel/atmosphere/vibe isn't achievable with modern RPG design inspired by MMOs/MOBAs where everyone's essentially a mini-mage that litters the screen with rainbow colored visual effects, it's too low key in comparison.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth

DeepOcean

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I'm too old and jaded to like animu guys, guess I won't enjoy Obsidian's budget Dragon Age, I'm a sad human being and not a cool nerd anymore.
 

MRY

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Just can't get interested in this game after the betrayal of PoE. Fool me once obsidian...

Then why did you click on the thread?
Hope that Obsidian leaves her bland period and return making decent storyfag games with awful gameplay instead of bland storyfag games with awful gameplay.

Decent storyfag games like KOTOR2, with its Archons Sith Lords?

SION, SITH LORD OF PAIN.

NIHILUS, SITH LORD OF HUNGER.

We get it, you've gotten too old to find out-of-context fantasy lore exciting. The rest of the nerds out there still think it's cool, though. Updates like these are for them, not for you.

This gives me an opening to point out that Darth Sion always reminded me of Tessai from Ninja Scroll. It's anime all the way down. :(
latest

latest

Still, I think your comparison to KOTOR2 is perhaps even more misplaced than the comparison to Myth.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
MRY I'm not comparing KOTOR2 with Tyranny. I'm comparing a hypothetical KOTOR2 lore update for nerds who like lore released sometime in 2004 with this update.

I don't think there's anything you couldn't make look or sound banal to a jaded grognard. We've already seen that with Torment's companions, for instance. If you think that's wrong, feel free to explain.
 

Orobis

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Tessai from Ninja Scroll
Damn Ninja Scroll, that was the first Manga i ever saw when i was 12 years old. It came out in 1995 or 96 if memory serves.
I'l never forget that rape scene and ripping off the arms and drinking the dude's blood, fucking classic.

"Piss off, can't you see i'm busy?"

Too bad they don't make animu like that anymore.

Edit: Nope i was wrong 1993
 

DeepOcean

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MRY I'm not comparing KOTOR2 with Tyranny. I'm comparing a hypothetical KOTOR2 lore update for nerds who like lore released sometime in 2004 with this update.

I don't think there's anything you couldn't make look or sound banal to a jaded grognard. We've already seen that with Torment's companions, for instance. If you think that's wrong, feel free to explain.
The trouble is that we are speaking of Obsidian without Avellone, the same company that made PoE, the game which Not DnD lore bored me to death on how poorly used it was. There is no guarantee that there is more to those archon guys than what is written on the page and even if there is, there is no guarantee it is more than fluff lore and mean anything on the game. Obsidian's competence unfortunately isn't proven on those updates, if Avellone announced tomorrow he is working on a new game where he is the lead writer and even if he made bland as shit updates like this, I would be far more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than Obsidian by reputation alone.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
MRY I'm not comparing KOTOR2 with Tyranny. I'm comparing a hypothetical KOTOR2 lore update for nerds who like lore released sometime in 2004 with this update.

I don't think there's anything you couldn't make look or sound banal to a jaded grognard. We've already seen that with Torment's companions, for instance. If you think that's wrong, feel free to explain.
The trouble is that we are speaking of Obsidian without Avellone, the same company that made PoE, the game which Not DnD lore bored me to death on how poorly used it was. There is no guarantee that there is more to those archon guys than what is written on the page and even if there is, there is no guarantee it is more than fluff lore and mean anything on the game. Obsidian's competence unfortunately isn't proven on those updates, if Avellone announced tomorrow he is working on a new game where he is the lead writer and even if he made bland as shit updates like this, I would be far more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt than Obsidian by reputation alone.

Well, that's a problem. You see, the majority of people buying these games want to be immersed in what you consider banal lore.

That's right, the RPG renaissance has actually increased the influence of the banal lore lovers. When Obsidian made AAA RPGs, they also had to cater to bros, so they couldn't stuff in too much wordy cliches and terminology. Now 90% of their audience is people who think Wheel of Time is great literature. :cool:

It's hard life being a self-aware post-geek
 

MRY

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If you think that's wrong, feel free to explain.
Let me begin with a few disclaimers. (1) Promotional material doesn't always or even often reflect the game. For example, Dave marketed Primordia in a video that contains every single explosion in the game, with the tagline "What Happened to the Humans?" Primordia is not primarily a game about explosions or finding out what happened to humanity. So I am sensitive to the mismatch that can go on. (2) I really want Tyrrany to be great, not just because I like to watch people succeed and like to see the RPG genre flourish, but also because a short, systems-lite, C&C-heavy RPG is exactly the kind of thing I might actually be able to muster the time and will to play.

But still, I don't like your method.

It may well be true that "there's [no]thing you couldn't make look or sound banal to a jaded grognard," but it's silly to therefore conclude that one shouldn't criticize marketing material. If one isn't going to engage critically with marketing material, one shouldn't engage with it at all -- otherwise you are just letting yourself be sold a product, and one shouldn't submit to such blandishments without at least getting a free lunch out of it. Even aside from the standpoint of the proper dignity in the face of salesmanship, a critical reaction to marketing material helps the developer understand what the customers like and don't. It may be too late to turn the ship, but it might not be. Why not provide what feedback you can given the material you're offered to opine upon? The most useful thing the Codex does for the RPG industry is not the few thousands it throws at Kickstarter projects, but the intense analysis and criticism it generates.

In this specific context, I think your comparisons are inapt for a variety of reasons. As Excidium II notes, one comes to Star Wars with certain expectations. The name "Darth Nihilus" is ridiculous but it's almost compulsory within the established property (see, e.g., the insidious Darth Sidious, the revenant Darth Revan, the pestilential Darth Plagueis, etc., not to mention the lacivious Salacious Crumb, the acquisitive Greedo, the solitary everyman Han Solo, etc.). Thus, you can't put much stock into those names.

It is true that The Black Company and Myth names like the names in Tyranny, and that Tyranny appears on some level to be following those IPs. I would say that those names are pretty ridiculous in those settings, too, but they work for a fundamental reason that I don't think is true here, which is that they distance the superpowerful demigods from the ordinary humans whose perspective and experiences form the substance of the story. That doesn't seem to be true here for a variety of reasons: (1) the P.C. is almost certainly an exarch; (2) some of the archons do not track the Black Company naming system for the Taken (e.g., Graven Ashe or Bleden Mark); (3) non-archons themselves have extraordinary magical powers, blurring the distinction that seemed more accute in TBC and Myth.

Anyway, I don't think people are exclusively riffing off the names, but the setting, etc., etc.

Still, I'm reasonably optimistic about things. You're certainly right that a bad marketer could've made Myth look horrific if, say, they focused on the goofy dwarves, Saturday-morning cartoon cinematics, etc.
 

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It may well be true that "there's [no]thing you couldn't make look or sound banal to a jaded grognard," but it's silly to therefore conclude that one shouldn't criticize marketing material. If one isn't going to engage critically with marketing material, one shouldn't engage with it at all -- otherwise you are just letting yourself be sold a product, and one shouldn't submit to such blandishments without at least getting a free lunch out of it. Even aside from the standpoint of the proper dignity in the face of salesmanship, a critical reaction to marketing material helps the developer understand what the customers like and don't. It may be too late to turn the ship, but it might not be. Why not provide what feedback you can given the material you're offered to opine upon? The most useful thing the Codex does for the RPG industry is not the few thousands it throws at Kickstarter projects, but the intense analysis and criticism it generates.

You can criticize, but you also need to realize what you're looking at. It's a list of awesome dudes. It's like, I don't know, those fighting game character dossiers that list Blood Type and Favorite Color for some reason? Nerdy stuff for people to use in their fan fiction.

That said:

non-archons themselves have extraordinary magical powers, blurring the distinction that seemed more accute in TBC and Myth.

Hmmm, warlocks? I don't think we know enough about magic use in this setting yet to talk about this.
 

Roguey

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This gives me an opening to point out that Darth Sion always reminded me of Tessai from Ninja Scroll. It's anime all the way down

That's intentional. :)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-31-fear-is-the-path-to-the-dark-side

Darth Sion, Lord of Pain, took much longer to get right. Typically Brian Menze didn't have time to dilly-dally because he was modelling the characters as well, so he usually sketched them quickly and roughly. But he couldn't get Sion - a corroding immortal whose excruciating pain was caused by the very anger and hatred holding him together - to Avellone's liking (Avellone having been inspired by a stone demon dying in anime Ninja Scroll). The pair had "a great many" conversations about how to get him right.

In some ancient interview, Avellone said Ninja Scroll was one of his favorite anime films. :M
 

MRY

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Ha! That's awesome. Ninja Scroll is in many ways the platonic ideal of an adolescent boy's anime movie. Definitely "problematic," though, by contemporary standards (and also probably by the standards of the time).

Sometime later, Genma is inexplicably able to reincarnate himself, and over the next five years, becomes leader of a demon ninja group known as the Devils of Kimon, who in turn work for the mysterious Shogun of the Dark (really the lord of the House of Toyotomi), which holds a grudge against the current government, the Tokugawa shogunate, and wants to overthrow it.
Glad to know the plot hasn't gotten any clearer since 1994.
 

Mozg

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I haven't read Glen Cook nor played Myth and I personally assumed this was generic fantasy for/from a younger generation that had stuff like WoW and Avatar/Korra (which I also don't know well, but which seems vaguely reminiscent of this stuff - particularly in getting further and further from any core of medievalism).

That's not me saying I'm right in any way, but it was my first conclusion.
 

Orobis

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Ninja Scroll is the best anime film ever made. Akira, Ghost in the shell and Vampire Hunter D bloodlust are up there as well.
 

oscar

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So far seems like a lamer Black Company rip off unfortunately. I'm beginning to suspect there's something quite seriously wrong with Obsidian's writing, like it's close or has the potential to be good but in execution always ends up tripping over itself (might just be personal, I found some of the New Vegas expansions atrociously written though there seems a general consensus of PoE's style).

Far too many cool sounding buzzwords and superhero esque powers (and names..) in this update for my liking.
 

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