Transistor - sci-fi action-RPG from the makers of Bastion

[ZoddGuts]

Also got bored of Bastion pretty quick. Didn't finish it, just made me want to replay one of the Ys games for my ARPG fix.

 

[Roguey]

So is play acting in the park, but calling it playing an RPG would be missing the point.

A game with role playing is obviously a role playing game.

 

[Xenich]

So is play acting in the park, but calling it playing an RPG would be missing the point.

A game with role playing is obviously a role playing game.

Meaningless and vague classification which is why I made my point in the very beginning. If your definition is confusing and offers no meaningful classification, then it is simply words without purpose which is no different than babbling incoherently.

 

[Roguey]

Meaningless and vague classification which is why I made my point in the very beginning. If your definition is confusing and offers no meaningful classification, then it is simply words without purpose which is no different than babbling incoherently.

No, that's a very specific definition.

 

[Xenich]

Meaningless and vague classification which is why I made my point in the very beginning. If your definition is confusing and offers no meaningful classification, then it is simply words without purpose which is no different than babbling incoherently.

No, that's a very specific definition.

What is the difference between an adventure game and an RPG?

 

[Roguey]

What is the difference between an adventure game and an RPG?

Answer the following questions:

* Does the game allow you to develop and use tactics?
* Does the game allow you to develop and deploy a strategy?
* Does the game allow you to resolve conflicts in multiple ways?

If you answered "no" to all of the above, you're playing a "pure" adventure/puzzle game. If you answered "yes" to one or more of the above, it may be another sort of game, one that is still currently made.

 

[Infinitron]

What is the difference between an adventure game and an RPG?

Answer the following questions:

* Does the game allow you to develop and use tactics?
* Does the game allow you to develop and deploy a strategy?
* Does the game allow you to resolve conflicts in multiple ways?

If you answered "no" to all of the above, you're playing a "pure" adventure/puzzle game. If you answered "yes" to one or more of the above, it may be another sort of game, one that is still currently made.

Come on, are you passing off Sawyer quotes as your own now? That's disrespectful.

http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24191

 

[Roguey]

I'm using the JES definition of games with role playing so why not?

 

[Xenich]

What is the difference between an adventure game and an RPG?

Answer the following questions:

* Does the game allow you to develop and use tactics?
* Does the game allow you to develop and deploy a strategy?
* Does the game allow you to resolve conflicts in multiple ways?

If you answered "no" to all of the above, you're playing a "pure" adventure/puzzle game. If you answered "yes" to one or more of the above, it may be another sort of game, one that is still currently made.

Wait, you stated:

If you can make choices through your character that affect the narrative it's role playing. I have no idea, I'm barely following this.

So now you are moving the goal post?

As for:

I'm using the JES definition of games with role playing so why not?

I have a lot of issues with his reasoning, but I am not going to argue it with one of his groupies.

 

[Copper]

What is the difference between an adventure game and an RPG?

Answer the following questions:

* Does the game allow you to develop and use tactics?
* Does the game allow you to develop and deploy a strategy?
* Does the game allow you to resolve conflicts in multiple ways?

If you answered "no" to all of the above, you're playing a "pure" adventure/puzzle game. If you answered "yes" to one or more of the above, it may be another sort of game, one that is still currently made.

Wait, what? There's a hell of a lot more games being made where you can answer no to all three questions than those in the yes camp - just look at Daedelic's output, if you don't want to count all those hidden-object games and pure puzzle games. Bit out of touch there as a criteria for anything.

 

[Roguey]

So now you are moving the goal post?

No. In most adventure games, you don't make choices through your character that affect the narrative. Some adventure games do have very light role-playing, but they tend to have a very small supported range of expression. The more meaningful ways there are to express your character's personality, the better the role playing.

 

[Xenich]

So now you are moving the goal post?

No. In most adventure games, you don't make choices through your character that affect the narrative. Some adventure games do have very light role-playing, but they tend to have a very small supported range of expression. The more meaningful ways there are to express your character's personality, the better the role playing.

Most, some, etc... Vague and meaningless. My point stands.

It's like attending undergrad non-science classes where meaning is a subjective issue dependent on whoever holds the podium.

 

[Copper]

It looks good but, why is this an RPG ?

The combination system looks interesting.

Didn't you hear? RPG these days means a game where you play a role! So naturally that encompasses everything. /sarc

This point? Not really. The point Roguey's trying to make is that 'playing a role' means you actually have choices in terms of HOW your character behaves in a way that has an impact on the game's narrative and allows you to express a personality. It doesn't matter if the plot is linear or if you have a fixed character/role, or even if many of your choices are ultimately 'false'. Ultimately it's all very limited 'lite' role-play, because you're just picking pre-scripted dialogue choices or unlocking hidden options through character stat advancement.

So yeah, play-acting, improvisation, even flirting and bluffing are all aspects of role-play. They're just generally not games, or at least not ones with formal rules.

 

[Xenich]

It looks good but, why is this an RPG ?

The combination system looks interesting.

Didn't you hear? RPG these days means a game where you play a role! So naturally that encompasses everything. /sarc

This point? Not really. The point Roguey's trying to make is that 'playing a role' means you actually have choices in terms of HOW your character behaves in a way that has an impact on the game's narrative and allows you to express a personality. It doesn't matter if the plot is linear or if you have a fixed character/role, or even if many of your choices are ultimately 'false'. Ultimately it's all very limited 'lite' role-play, because you're just picking pre-scripted dialogue choices or unlocking hidden options through character stat advancement.

So yeah, play-acting, improvisation, even flirting and bluffing are all aspects of role-play. They're just generally not games, or at least not ones with formal rules.

Which encompasses so many different genres that it is meaningless.

 

[Copper]

Not really. If I decide to deliberately murder a Mechanist in, say Thief II because I think they're cocks, sure, I'm making a choice about how my character behaves and expressing their personality - but it's what (I think) the Codex decries as LARPing - self-imposed role-play outside the game's mechanics. Deus Ex, on the other hand, makes a case for shooting the terrorists, or using non-lethal takedowns, and different characters acknowledge your approach, despite it having no real impact on the game.

 

[Xenich]

Not really. If I decide to deliberately murder a Mechanist in, say Thief II because I think they're cocks, sure, I'm making a choice about how my character behaves and expressing their personality - but it's what (I think) the Codex decries as LARPing - self-imposed role-play outside the game's mechanics. Deus Ex, on the other hand, makes a case for shooting the terrorists, or using non-lethal takedowns, and different characters acknowledge your approach, despite it having no real impact on the game.

Choose your own adventure books allow the player to make specific choices that affect the narrative and they were never termed as RPG books. This is a common theme with many adventure games as well offering multiple endings to which the player can choose paths that affect the stories outcome which are obviously not some self-imposed outside mechanic (ie Monkey Island, Myst, etc...).

 

[CyberWhale]

pls die.

 

[Copper]

Choose your own adventure books allow the player to make specific choices that affect the narrative and they were never termed as RPG books.

Wrong, that's exactly what Fighting Fantasy books are commonly called, although that's more down to their primitive stats & dice mechanics.

 

[Xenich]

Choose your own adventure books allow the player to make specific choices that affect the narrative and they were never termed as RPG books.

Wrong, that's exactly what Fighting Fantasy books are commonly called, although that's more down to their primitive stats & dice mechanics.

Most of the early choose your own adventure books were the Bantam books from 1979+ and they did not contain statistical features (those RPG books came out later), rather they were simple decision trees.

You didn't seem to respond to my comments about adventure games either (ie the fact that Monkey Island and even Myst to an extent, have decisions by the character that affects the narrative yet contain no statistical elements or development)?

 

[Copper]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about, to be honest - I never noticed any branching in the Monkey Island games. But it's probably irrelevant - if all you're choosing as what to do, which fork in the road to go down, you're not playing a role. You're gambling/using meta-knowledge to predict which route leads to the best ending, and which route leads to sudden death / hidden secret.

 

[Xenich]

I'm not really sure what you're talking about, to be honest - I never noticed any branching in the Monkey Island games. But it's probably irrelevant - if all you're choosing as what to do, which fork in the road to go down, you're not playing a role. You're gambling/using meta-knowledge to predict which route leads to the best ending, and which route leads to sudden death / hidden secret.

Like Roguey, you seem to be moving the goal posts. Roguey stated, to which you affirmed:

If you can make choices through your character that affect the narrative it's role playing.

I contested this as being vague and encompassing many games, conflicting heavily with Adventure games. I gave examples and could give many many more, but it seems that you too keep moving the goal post with each error shown in the premise. The fact that this is being done establishes my point that Roguey's definition of an RPG is vague and meaningless.

 

[Copper]

Yeah, you seem to have trouble comprehending what making choice through your character actually means. It's a lot more precise than you're willing to admit. Anyway, I'm done with this derail into 'what can change the nature of a game'.

 

[Xenich]

Yeah, you seem to have trouble comprehending what making choice through your character actually means. It's a lot more precise than you're willing to admit. Anyway, I'm done with this derail into 'what can change the nature of a game'.

Derail? That quote was from what Roguey stated you fucking twit!

If you can make choices through your character that affect the narrative it's role playing. I have no idea, I'm barely following this.

See, it wasn't my claim, it was hers.


It was the original premise! You thought you would enter into a discussion and comment on it without knowing what the discussion was? Are you stupid or just fucking lazy?

 

[Perkel]

Never got into Bastion. Found it boring.

This doesn't look any different.

 

[Decado]

The RPS review is pretty much what you'd expect.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/05/20/transistor-pc-review/#more-207651