Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by Infinitron, Mar 31, 2017.

  1. Dwarvophilegender: ⚧ Learned

    Dwarvophile
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    Yes, this teleporting mercenary or chaos spawn whatever thing right on your doorstep is stupid. Why not instead make a crusade systeml like in M2TW and let the players and AI set proper expeditions. Well, maybe because it would require the player to use his brain and the AI to actually have one????
     
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  2. Zboj Lamignatgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Zboj Lamignat
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    Agree 100%. The game also still has this infuriating strategic "AI" where one of your allies asks you to join war against some random beastmen herd and when you accept, the only stack of said herd immediately beelines for your nearest undefended settlement from across the entire map while ignoring and being ignored by everything else just to burn it and then starts playing cat and mouse with your armies for no fucking reason. The game has some quality of life improvements over TW1, but the "strategic" layer is yet again complete shambles that's in no way fun and just drags the entire game down.
     
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  3. Stavrophoregender: ⚧ Learned

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    You weren't tired of whackamole gameplay before? Fighting war with two enemies is just painful -you capture one city, and the other fall to another party. You chase them, they escape, only to return and occupy shit. And the fucking gay settlements have no option to build walls, only province capital can have walls...
     
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  4. Raghargender: ⚧ Arcane

    Raghar
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    70000 peak vs 100000 peak, looks like when they made first WH, people were jumping because they though WH finally. Now, it's only sequel, and while it has Skaven...
    Kinda wonder what would happen with users in third game 30000?
     
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  5. fantadomatgender: ⚧ Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    This sounds like some Attila bullshit to me.
     
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  6. Raghargender: ⚧ Arcane

    Raghar
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    You can rage quit and give me the key. I can try to hack it when they would release Tomb Kings.
     
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  7. Lone Wolfgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    You see that little sword next to the ritual progress bar? It's an intervention mechanic, where you pay money (three levels) to spawn armies of increasing quality so as to disrupt the opponent's ritual.

    Don't start a ritual, if you can't defend the site(s).

    Ulthuan is probably the most defensible part of the game world and you can field 3-4 elite stacks from its income, alone, once it's secured.

    I don't know how this would be simulated in a way that's not frustrating. I find the loyalty mechanic tiresome, even as the Dark Elves. Skaven are absolutely shit tier in most meaningful ways, making them even harder to play is going to reduce their player base to basically nothing. Lord Skrolk had only 5% of the player base even starting his campaign. Something like 30-35% of all players started with Tyrion. I suppose they could supercharge a sort of 'Fightiness' mechanic to simulate Skaven treachery and - at the same time - make them wildly unpredictable diplomatically. Not sure it would improve the base experience.

    Also, weren't Clan Mors and Clan Eshin supposed to be very 'loyal' for Skaven standards?

    Yeah, but it's added for everyone, not just the AI. It makes defending your own settlements a bit easier, too. Anything that slows the steamroller effect in any way is a good thing (in moderation).
     
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  8. Lone Wolfgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Just had a thought about HE vs Chaos... It will be interesting to see how HE players adapt to Chaos staples. I mean, you've got 115 armor Chosen (silver shield), who basically negate the HE player's most beloved tactic; Lothern Sea Guard, backed by artillery (in truth, even basic Chaos Warriors will badly damage the utility of the LSG). Against Chaos, HE players will have to shift tactics entirely, and rely on Phoenix Guard/Swordmasters/White Lions. Their cavalry has no AP to speak of, which means that Dragon Princes are wasted on Chaos infantry. Chaos can match the Elves, monster for monster...

    Hmm...

    Meanwhile, the DElves are in the background, cackling, with their AP Darkshards/Shades/Dark Riders (Handbows) and AP Cold Ones/Dreadknights.
     
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  9. Sloulgender: ⚧ Novice

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    I used some LSG against Phoenix guards. I was certain to loose the battle when I saw the 90 armors. My winning chances were pretty low, but in fact, I completely devastated the Phoenix guards.
    LSG seem to rampage anything. As I just got the game, I didn't check everything, but I guess LSG do have some damage piercing (I am actually pretty sure of it).

    Just as a note this entry is, imo, of much better quality than the previous one.
     
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  10. LizardWizardgender: ⚧ Savant

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    Who the fuck has time to fight every trash battle?

    Minor settlements can build walls
     
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  11. bonescrapergender: ⚧ Guest

    bonescraper
    I can defend the sites. But teleporting armies? That's simply shit mechanics.
     
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  12. Lone Wolfgender: ⚧ Arcane

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    Sloul, LSG, like most units, have some AP, but they're only able to go toe to toe vs vanilla heavies or by doubling/tripling up. Once units in that upper tier get teched up and red skill treed, LSG take a back seat from front line duty. You wouldn't want them banging with Swordmasters, Executioners, Corsairs, Shades or any iteration of Saurus. Anything with a sword and shield is going to be an issue.

    That said, LSG are awesome and a HE staple. Great utility. DElves still have a better roster, overall, sadly. Silver Helms are highly disappointing for melee cav. Fairly certain even Empire Knights would see them off... They just have so little resilience. Dragon Princes have little AP and would get shredded by Cold Ones in any prolonged fight. Dark Shards shit all over anything with that AP black magic. Shades are godly and can get up to 200+ range with Names of Power.
     
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  13. Raghargender: ⚧ Arcane

    Raghar
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    That was in first WH as well. Do you remember about quest battles? You were not forced to ask for access or sneak and fight through whole Brettonia territory.
     
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  14. Fedora Mastergender: ⚧ Learned

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    Interventions are pretty shit, especially when multiple races start one. I've never seen them succeed no matter the money thrown at the problem.
     
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  15. fantadomatgender: ⚧ Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    Is this shit only on steam?If it is them it is doing very poorly.Its max player count is 70,165.It seems that a lot of people didn't like the first that much.Also their ripoff tactics didn't help much.They should have made this game a stand alone 40 bucks expansion.
     
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  16. Raghargender: ⚧ Arcane

    Raghar
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    Its previous peak was about 100000 concurent players. Which if you know number of sales of WH 1 in first three months, you can recalculate into expected sales of WH 2. As I wrote it's about 7/10 of previous sales, and I said it's likely because previous WH was more popular because it was first implementation of WH as larger strategy game, thus fans jumped on it. Now fans had already theirs share of warhammer, and getting it only for Skaven, or HE at full price wasn't something they would be too eager to do.

    Which has some implication for WH3, which doesn't have that many juicy factions anymore, and I estimated number of concurrent players to 30000. Which would be VERY bad for SEGA. It will be no longer money racking enterprise, and there might be possibly even cancellation of WH 3.
     
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  17. Seethegender: ⚧ Learned

    Seethe
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    Don't kid yourself. Your estimations are shit and have no real basis.


    Yeah, they are useless for the player, and extremely annoying against them. I will still prefer the OG sandbox experience, can't wait for the Mortal Campaign to arrive in 1-2 months or so
     
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  18. Maculogender: ⚧ Liturgist

    Maculo
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    Chaos Dwarves?
    Show Spoiler
    [​IMG]


    I disagree that the money racket is running out of steam. I do not think it is just about adding more factions. Instead, I would argue that CA/SEGA could just add another campaign/Vortex mechanic, with minor renovations to older factions (Empire, Dwarves, etc). In fact, I believe I read that CA plans to revisit older factions at some point, and you damn well know it will be behind a paywall. In addition, you have factions such Nagash, Ogre Kingdoms, and Chaos God aligned daemon armies, plus a dozen other obscure armies such as Dogs of War, Pirate Coast, Araby, and Cathay. Provided that CA does not completely drop the ball, I do not think the Total Warhammer installments are in jeopardy.
     
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  19. Seethegender: ⚧ Learned

    Seethe
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    Attila had 20k players at most. Warhammer isn't going anywhere, and the third game definitely won't have 30k players at most. Once the combined map is released, Warhammer 1 will become obsolete, and the players will move to Warhammer 2.
     
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  20. fantadomatgender: ⚧ Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck Edgy

    fantadomat
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    I agree for most of it with you.I think 7/10 is far too optimistic prediction.I am leaning more for 5/10 or 6/10.Most people are burned by the first and the overpriced expansion looks the same and have some retarded new mechanic.Also the modern marked is becoming jaded fast.For this game i personally didn't even bothered to give her a bad rating.I didn't even knew that it is coming despite seeing it in upcoming.After all those 70,000 represent the hardcore fans like Seethe.
    For Warhammer III,well i am not very optimistic about it.Even if it come out it will be very bad and only hardcores like Seethe will play it.
     
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  21. Andnjordgender: ⚧ Cipher

    Andnjord
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    Playing as Teclis here, and I just finished the second to last ritual. The chaos incursions are becoming really strong, about 4 full stacks of elite chaos plus two elite stacks of skaven. At this point LSG have become support units replacing archers in my frontline stacks. My best army (the one that gets sent straight up against Chaos) is formed of 4 LGS (to replace squishy archers), 4 phoenix guards, 4 swordmasters, 2 dragon princes, 2 ballistas, 1 dragon, one lord on dragon, one loremaster of Hoeth and one horse riding noble. AP damage or not, a rear charge by dragon princes combined with the terror inducing dragon will send any combination of chosen or chaos warriors fleeing for their lives. Meanwhile, phoenix guards and swordmasters are perfectly capable of going toe to toe against chosen warriors with halberds and come out on top, and that's before you account for the loremaster supporting them.

    EDIT: regarding changing tactics, I just finished in my campaign training up a full cavalry/ flyers stack, though I haven't been able to unleash it on anything yet.

    EDIT 2: Just remembered that both the lord and the loremaster have traits that give significant bonuses to phoenix guards, so that might be why they were eating Chosen Warriors for breakfast
     
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  22. GrainWetskigender: ⚧ Arcane

    GrainWetski
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    Unless mods like SFO will automatically work, it won't be until they do.
     
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  23. Seethegender: ⚧ Learned

    Seethe
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    Stop spreading obvious false bullshit dude. Just because you make a statement, it won't make it a true fact. You should've learned this past the age of 7. You are just rambling nonsense.
     
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  24. Fedora Mastergender: ⚧ Learned

    Fedora Master
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    [​IMG]

    That is a Druchii lord leading a bunch of Chaos Chosen, Cold One Riders and a Black Dragon and that is terrifying.
     
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  25. Lone Wolfgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Lone Wolf
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    Yeah, but as you mention your troops are getting bonuses from the LL and techs, while their Chaos counterparts aren't. This is more in terms of the multiplayer landscape, where the field is leveled (when it comes to campaign bonuses).

    No issue with Swordmasters beating Chosen (Halberds), though. They really should, as any halberd unit is really more an anti-large tool, than anything else. Especially since halberd units still suffer from that annoyingly low attack interval. It would be interesting to see how they trade with the shielded/great weapon Chosen, though. On the face of it, Chosen should walk that fight. I mean, compare:

    [​IMG]

    vs

    [​IMG]

    SOH are more Chaos Warrior (Great Weapons) tier than Chosen (though I feel they'd beat CW reasonably well). Yes, they get a bump from that Martial Proficiency, but it's not big enough to make up that difference in armor and health (68 per model for SOH vs 108 for Chosen) and melee attack, especially.

    And then there's this:

    [​IMG]

    vs (on the right)

    [​IMG]

    Chosen should definitely win out in both scenarios, all things being equal. Especially once their HE counterparts fall below 50% strength and lose Martial Proficiency.

    All in all, seems to me like Chaos should be a tough match-up for HE. A good player will make up for the HE deficiencies, certaintly, but there you go.
     
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