KickStarter Tortured Hearts - successor to NWN module series

[LeStryfe79]

Update 7!

 

[SubBassman]

It's all right, really. Everybody is entitled to his opinion.
Just please, let's talk like gentlemen.

Also, I still say you should have waited longer until jumping on the kickstarter bandwagon, and not so closely to the kickstarters of Wasteland 2 and Banner Saga.
Waited until you had more to show - which you now are gradually getting (why couldn't you have waited till now? It's better to start when you already have something to show) and until people had money again to spend, which they all threw at Wasteland 2 and Banner Saga.

This wasn't a good point of time to go kickstarter. A month later would have been better.

We still have 30 days and a game could be founded in a week or so, if people make up their minds.
I hope you like the presentation which shows our good intentions.

 

[SubBassman]

Please check out Update 6:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1424869054/tortured-hearts-or-how-i-saved-the-universe-again

Thank you

Wow, that was overkill, showing all the 200 areas....but I gotta say I enjoyed the looks of some very much, especially the non-linear dungeons and huge cities that already look coll on NWN models. I would really like to see them spring to life on a cartoony world like the tech-demo. I really want this project to succeed.

And just how big is this? You said BG2-level, but just the ammout of big cities I saw was crazy, this is a massive world, on par with Skyrim, can you really do that with just 300k?

Thank you for your support.

As a matter of fact, it's on par with... any game out there. (RPGwise)

See? Suddenly. 300 k doesn't sound that much.

 

[SubBassman]

Hi guys

Please check out update 7

(plot and convo examples)

Zoltan

 

[SubBassman]

Why is it these indie guys always argue with anyone who comes along?

No, you should like it! Is not going to change anyone's opinion. How about showing people more, different, better instead?

What else would you like to see? (keep in mind what we can do at the moment)

 

[SubBassman]

Here's another topic of interest:
http://af.gog.com/en/forum/general/tortured_hearts_new_kickstarter_rpg?as=1649904300

 

[Burning Bridges]

And when I thought the kickstarter bandwagon couldn't get any more retarded... Also 300 000 for this ? No screenshots or anything, the dev doesn't have a team and can't even program or do shit on his own other than write dialogs in the nwn editor ? I really hope this whole kickstarter massive retardation dies out and quickly.

I am actually less concerned about this than I was a week ago.

Laughable pledges are an indication that people already recognize which projects are genuine and which are dreams and experiments.

I was initially surprised to see that crowdfunding seems to be working, but I am beginning to like the idea. There is a small budget that I plan to put into a few carefully selected projects in 2012. But I made up my mind that I am not going to put money into any new kickstarters right now, and definitely not this one. That's because, after a few convincing projects came and rolled in huge amounts of money, there now simply had to be a wave of tomfools and have-nots, trying to turn their lousy tripe into fantastic budgets. Hopefully they will all fall flat on the face.

Until the market has settled, I'll rather savor the lulz and try to learn as much as I can.

Of course, in a perfect world I would wish every one would get the money he needs to fullful his personal dream.

But as it is, there is only so much money, and every dollar put into such projects is a dollar too much.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Just to clarify. I think Zoltan is a nice guy, and he seems to have some genuine ideas about game design. It just doesn't mean I will be any less opposed to over-funding such rather humble projects by a factor of 30 or more.

He also has to learn a few things, about software development first of all, but also about the Codex. You cannot come to a community that spent years to recruit an elite of frustrated gamers, and expect to talk them into such a poorly conceived plan, with such lousy arguments.

But once he has teamed up with programmers and artists and puts up a convincing prototype of a game, it could change my mind. It's never too late to make a new beginning ..

 

[SubBassman]

But once he has teamed up with programmers and artists and puts up a convincing prototype of a game

In order to make a "convincing" prototype of a game, you'll have to actually make the game without the content. (even if you are not aware of this) And players like you always want something else. Say, we create a demo level where you can walk around and talk with NPCs, then you'll want to see the combat and so on. Without money, it's impossible for indies.
That's why kickstarter may actually work. You like the idea, you pledge 10 dollars (the price of a pizza), you don't like it, you go elsewhere.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Sorry BRO! And call me "players like you" as much as you want ..

I've offered you enough free rides by now, but you turning in circles doesn't make what you say any less wrong. The problem is quite simply that you seem to have very little idea what is really going on in the world of software.

Just have a look at the Ogre3d showcase area http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewforum.php?f=11&sid=519e0ae6831a771128b225f1823ef5b0 and you will be surprised what people are actually doing that you think is impossible, just for fun in their spare time.

If you look really hard you will even find a project that I have put up myself, just me, without any financial interest. http://www.christian-wendt.org/ORIONARM/index.html

You will find thousands of similar projects in various stages for hundreds of other engines. I also already gave you a link to the Codex Workshop forum where you can find several un-finished games with working prototypes. And I am sure you spent some time there to catch up on things in the world of garage developement. Right?

So, please don't tell me it's impossible to present a working prototype of your software before you are given at least 300.000$. You are just making yourself look incredibly silly.

Instead, simply enthuse some young talented programmer for your idea (I am sure there are hundreds of such bright guys running around in a Budapest university, just put it on some bill boards and wait a month), and come back when you have something more to a show than just levels.

Now we've met I would actually like to see you get on with it, but your original plan is a dead end, believe me.

 

[SubBassman]

Burning Bridges


Sorry to say but you have a very little idea what it takes to make an RPG (particularly of this scope). Seriously.
Let's correct myself: You have no idea. At all.

How many RPGs have you done in your life?
How many hours do you think I have already invested?
Do you expect 15 people working for free? (Even for a month)
How effective is a team where the members work 8 hours somewhere else (to make a living you know), then go home
and work 1-2 hours for me, if ever.

It's not working, dude.

People have families and other commitments. I have no family, that's why I could do this. But it's just one man, see?

 

[Excommunicator]

At the start of your other thread I was going to give you some advice about how you shouldn't engage Codexers but I am actually very surprised at how civil everyone is being at this point. Especially Burning Bridges.

You though, are still digging a hole for yourself. Think twice about that SubBassman

 

[SubBassman]

At the start of your other thread I was going to give you some advice about how you shouldn't engage Codexers but I am actually very surprised at how civil everyone is being at this point. Especially Burning Bridges.

You though, are still digging a hole for yourself. Think twice about that SubBassman

I didn't attack anyone.
I was attacked by a few people.
I'm trying to bring forth my points with all honesty.

 

[Jack]

Where do you think we are?

 

[udm]

Mate, I think your heart's in the right place, but I gotta say, I'm not impressed by everything shown so far. I'm not pledging firstly because of the reward tiers, and secondly because the project just doesn't inspire enough confidence for me to put my money on the table. I know next to nothing about the game other than how it's going to be old-school and satirical, and while you have some experience on your belt in working in the gaming industry, I'm still not convinced that I want to put my money down on this project.

About the Codex, everyone's being pretty calm already, and I can tell you the feedback is more constructive than you'll find in places like this. Even if it's not all positive, (most) posters here are not spewing random, irrelevant drivel in an attempt to try and be edgy or cool. You can't be forced to like and follow everyone's feedback, since this is your project after all, but all I'm saying is, it's better to have harsh but relevant comments, than to have some fucking moron try to make himself look cool with snide remarks that don't add any value to the discussion.

 

[SubBassman]

udm

The tiers: for a small company it's hard to come up with spectacular tangibles. The ones we offer already cost a nice amount at the expense of the budget. The magic potions are given to you at the start. If you don't want to use them, you'll destroy them.

The game: we presented the areas, some of the storyline, convo examples, a demo of the graphics, the resume of the makers, a vision of how it's supposed to be realized.
For some it's enough, for some it isn't. No biggie.

If we are lucky, we'll be able to present a character too, a bit later.

Codex: I think the conversation is fair enough. I've been dealing with mod feedbackers for 10 years (in the other topic for instance, there's someone who obviously tries to make everyone believe I'm promoting myself with money. With a fake account.)

 

[udm]

If there are any projects like that out there.

Like Charles's game? I'm really looking forward to playing S&S Underworld with the new assets.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Codex: I think the conversation is fair enough. I've been dealing with mod feedbackers for 10 years (in the other topic for instance, there's someone who obviously tries to make everyone believe I'm promoting myself with money. With a fake account.)

That's a codex tradition. We had our share of bots etc, and there are also certain people who get banned and come back with alts. Don't take it personal.

About the Codex, everyone's being pretty calm already, and I can tell you the feedback is more constructive than you'll find in places like this. Even if it's not all positive, (most) posters here are not spewing random, irrelevant drivel in an attempt to try and be edgy or cool. You can't be forced to like and follow everyone's feedback, since this is your project after all, but all I'm saying is, it's better to have harsh but relevant comments, than to have some fucking moron try to make himself look cool with snide remarks that don't add any value to the discussion.

To be fair, I think he's already able to deal with it. Which is not easy since he's been in the corner from the start. It's just that he's clinging too much to his delusions.
He should come back better prepared and it'll be alright.

And it seems people are good at spotting vaporware anyway, seemingly everyone but the people making it.

This.

 

[SubBassman]

Ok, let's elaborate things: what is your definition of vaporware?

Seems you two have a fixed idea we haven't done anything, just trying to bum money for new cars and boats. Is that it?

 

[Lumpy]

Burning Bridges


Sorry to say but you have a very little idea what it takes to make an RPG (particularly of this scope). Seriously.
Let's correct myself: You have no idea. At all.

How many RPGs have you done in your life?
How many hours do you think I have already invested?
Do you expect 15 people working for free? (Even for a month)
How effective is a team where the members work 8 hours somewhere else (to make a living you know), then go home
and work 1-2 hours for me, if ever.

It's not working, dude.

People have families and other commitments. I have no family, that's why I could do this. But it's just one man, see?

Aw come on dude, you're being such an awful cunt. Seriously.

I'm sorry to say, but projects like yours are dime-a-dozen. So you've got an idea for a really old school game with an unique setting. Well good for you, mate, go to Codex Workshop and you'll find that every single poster here has one. You know what few posters here actually have? A programmer. Is your work better than the average tripe a random RPG nerd can churn out? Then it shouldn't be hard to find a programmer willing to offer you his skills.

Vault Dweller managed it. The thing is, he didn't write 1000 pages of text, only to whine afterwards that turning 1000 pages into a game is hard work. He spent time on the forums, detailing his design philosophy and such, until he managed to persuade a bunch of people that yes, he is better than the average bloke, and yes, working with him would be worth it. And the gang have been working for free for, what, 6 years now?

But if you can't persuade any programmer, who could invest the time to read through dozens of pages, that your work is worth spending time on, why would you assume you could persuade the average donor, who will probably spend 10 minutes looking into a project?

 

[SubBassman]

Lumpy

The average 40+ developer is not keen on jumping on the idea to work for free even if you think I'm such an awful cunt. Seriously.
Maybe I'm living in the wrong country. (which is actually true)

 

[Lumpy]

Lumpy

The average 40+ developer is not keen on jumping on the idea to work for free even if you think I'm such an awful cunt. Seriously.
Maybe I'm living in the wrong country. (which is actually true)

Why a 40+ developer? I don't really get it, why wouldn't a 25 year old do? Or am I missing something?

And it's not for free - he'd get paid as soon as the Kickstarter succeeded. I doubt it'd be hard to convince someone to work and get paid in two months' time. Oh, you can't convince anyone the Kickstarter will succeed? Well...

 

[Burning Bridges]

I'd be more interested to see how this works out for projects that have a lot done for coding but the artwork is mostly crap. Like a programmer or two who made a game and then needs to get art somehow, who maybe has a little combat demo and design doc. If there are any projects like that out there.

1000s of such projects exist, but mostly in early stages. Most programmers don't intend to turn every concept into a full game. They just play around for some time, because they know how hard it is, and that it would eat them up.
That's why I posted the link to Ogre3d. There are many coders there who release small bits, some of them absolutely unbelievable. But they are honest people and too smart to turn to unrealistic goals.
The mindset is a completely different one. Every one's just improving their skills bit by bit, and shares it with the rest (most coders are very generous, not at all like artists). Which probably leads to many results in the big picture.

Which is to say this should stay as it is. As long as someone hasn't got a realistic vision of how to turn his project into a game - I mean by himself if necessary - pumping money into it will only lead to massive butthurt.

And as to modders who haven't even got the software development process rolling. You get the picture ..

 

[SubBassman]

Lumpy

Because the people I know and trust and have the same taste are 40+ with a tremendous game industry experience.

 

[Lumpy]

Lumpy

Because the people I know and trust and have the same taste are 40+ with a tremendous game industry experience.

This is wrong on so many levels.