Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[Lujo]

What? The first town in Numenera really does remind of the opening of BG:II with the laboratory you have to ecape from and then you find yourself in some kind of overly light fair with those tents where stuff looks like an all-over-the-place pastiche of uninvolving stuff somewhere between fantasy and sf but all done in a rather mainstream, not very imaginative way. Coming off of Planescape Torment, it all just looked so generic and uninvolving to me. I get the same exact feeling from this game.

That's part of the problem - I didn't like BG II, and if someone slaps "Torment" on something and I buy it, I don't really expect to load it up and be reminded of BG II quite a bit, and not reminded of PST at all. When you get down to it PST and the planescape setting in general were a parody of stock fantasy, they weren't stock fantasy painted to look more like sf. I mean, the non-Tolkinean literature influences on the Planescape setting were often literal parodies of Tolkinean fantasy, like, dudes like Moorcock wrote them with the exact purpose of taking a bitter stab at "stock fantasy". This is all over the place in PST which took it to a whole new level. Ignus from PST is a straight faced joke and trolling of your basic Infinity game Fireball chucking "wizard", etc etc. That game was a satire.

It was a good satire, too, and if you're trying to make a faithful "Torment" game you want to get as far away from "infinity game" as you can. That's what the original game was rather obsessively doing and it worked really well.

 

[Tom Selleck]

Every time this thread is updated, it just reminds me:

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

I loved TTON. I loved the writing in TTON. Great game. I would play it again.

Not a troll. Genuine opinion.

 

[KK1001]

You knew it was fucked from jump street when they made all the characters boring humans with X twist to them.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

I loved TTON. I loved the writing in TTON. Great game. I would play it again.

Not a troll. Genuine opinion.

OMG guyz I'm being super-cereal.

No really.....I really love that game. Please disown me.

 

[Prime Junta]

I loved TTON. I loved the writing in TTON. Great game. I would play it again.

Not a troll. Genuine opinion.

OMG guyz I'm being super-cereal.

No really.....I really love that game. Please disown me.

Which drugs were you on?

Not a troll. Genuine question.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Which drugs were you on?

Doctor-prescribed strictly medical marijuana.......you know...for my back.

 

[Prime Junta]

Which drugs were you on?

Doctor-prescribed strictly medical marijuana.......you know...for my back.

Huh, would've thought you'd need something stronger than that.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Huh, would've thought you'd need something stronger than that.

I really didn't need much. I played the game not long (maybe a month) after I played PS:T.

I prefer PS:T overall but not because of the writing as brilliant as it is.

I've read Darth Roxor's diatribe on shitty RPG writing and I agree with the flaws he points out in TTON, but overall I believe that the philosophical themes of free-will in TTON are handled in a much more mature way than I've ever encountered in any "game" before. I believe there is a real depth of philosophical questioning that one must come to terms with in TTON like I've never seen in any other game.

I won't brag or bore you with my philosophy credentials, but it's my field of academic study....and accomplishment. (beyond a simple bachelor's program).

And I won't try to convince you that TTON has answers....it's the opposite that charms me. It doesn't pretend to have answers......it challenges the player to think ultimate types of questions through to their logical conclusions. Does it do it as well as a collegiate-level course on philosophy of mind & will? Of course not....but it asks the right kinds of intriquing questions that could lead a novice down that path.

Any game that can involve players' minds in such a way is laudable for its ambition and scope, if not it's execution.

Nonetheless....I also found the art and writing to be quite beautiful compared to most of the AAA copy-cutter, and amateurish dreck that abounds in the gaming word.

For all the time and money constraints, the developer managed to deliver something visually arresting (to my eyes....not on the same level as PS:T) especially within The Bloom which I thought was a mini-masterpiece.


And yes, quite often I am an over-bearing, drunken asshole....

 

[fantadomat]

I loved TTON. I loved the writing in TTON. Great game. I would play it again.

Not a troll. Genuine opinion.

Aren't you the faggot that spams Deadfire thread with how better the game is than any classic rpg? Geee i always thought of you as a misguided Obsidian dev,but it turns out that you are genuinely retarded.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Aren't you the faggot that spams Deadfire thread with how better the game is than any classic rpg? Geee i always thought of you as a misguided Obsidian dev,but it turns out that you are genuinely retarded.

You either got your Merkins or your Swampies mixed up pal. I tried to play Pillows 1 and got bored with the RTwP...will probably try again some day...but I am definitely not a blind Obsidian or Pillows fan-boy.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Huh, would've thought you'd need something stronger than that.

I really didn't need much. I played the game not long (maybe a month) after I played PS:T.

I prefer PS:T overall but not because of the writing as brilliant as it is.

I've read Darth Roxor's diatribe on shitty RPG writing and I agree with the flaws he points out in TTON, but overall I believe that the philosophical themes of free-will in TTON are handled in a much more mature way than I've ever encountered in any "game" before. I believe there is a real depth of philosophical questioning that one must come to terms with in TTON like I've never seen in any other game.

I won't brag or bore you with my philosophy credentials, but it's my field of academic study....and accomplishment. (beyond a simple bachelor's program).

And I won't try to convince you that TTON has answers....it's the opposite that charms me. It doesn't pretend to have answers......it challenges the player to think ultimate types of questions through to their logical conclusions. Does it do it as well as a collegiate-level course on philosophy of mind & will? Of course not....but it asks the right kinds of intriquing questions that could lead a novice down that path.

Any game that can involve players' minds in such a way is laudable for its ambition and scope, if not it's execution.

Nonetheless....I also found the art and writing to be quite beautiful compared to most of the AAA copy-cutter, and amateurish dreck that abounds in the gaming word.

For all the time and money constraints, the developer managed to deliver something visually arresting (to my eyes....not on the same level as PS:T) especially within The Bloom which I thought was a mini-masterpiece.


And yes, quite often I am an over-bearing, drunken asshole....

So, to summarize, you liked it because it had:

a) High-school level philosophical academical credentials.

&

b) Pretty graphics.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

So, to summarize, you liked it because it had:

a) High-school level philosophical academical credentials.

&

b) Pretty graphics.

Yes. And that's a helluva lot more than most modern games have going for them.

Higher than high school....quite honestly. The subject of free-will is something that most American (even state-funded) universities are not willing to touch. They think it makes their students evil. No...really.

There's a study....that purportedly demonstrates that college-level individuals are more likely to engage in cheating after reading texts by scientists and philosophers that question free will.

Hence they won't even broach the subject. To see a game tackle it is at least somewhat refreshing to a cynical academic like me.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

I mean yes....there was purple prose.

But I found some of it quite inventive....they were trying to describe synesthesia-like events without the benefit of having experienced them.

I have low standards for RPG writing....not just CRPG writing but fantasy writing in general.

I've only read the "classics"...you know Shakespeare and Bronte and Tolstoy/Dostoyevsky......moderns like Nabokov.....

But mostly I'm just a philosophy nerd that reads a shit-ton of philosophers.

I apply the soft-bigotry of low expectations to my RPGs, and I'm rarely disappointed.

Games like PS:T and TToN are the rare exceptions when I'm genuinely surprised by the depth of questioning.

But really....don't any of you think that PS:T's endless shallow descriptions of D&D's endless shallow alignment system is a little fucking sophomoric?

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

I suppose you're too Chaotic Neutral to answer the question....edgelords.

 

[FeelTheRads]

PST... descriptions of the D&D alignments... wat?

 

[Prime Junta]

But really....don't any of you think that PS:T's endless shallow descriptions of D&D's endless shallow alignment system is a little fucking sophomoric?

No.

I suppose you're too Chaotic Neutral to answer the question....edgelords.

You seem upset.

 

[fantadomat]

Aren't you the faggot that spams Deadfire thread with how better the game is than any classic rpg? Geee i always thought of you as a misguided Obsidian dev,but it turns out that you are genuinely retarded.

You either got your Merkins or your Swampies mixed up pal. I tried to play Pillows 1 and got bored with the RTwP...will probably try again some day...but I am definitely not a blind Obsidian or Pillows fan-boy.

Ok,apologies mate,must have mixed you with another guy . Still bad taste for liking numanuma.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

PST... descriptions of the D&D alignments... wat?

Apparently we did not play the same version of Planescape: Torment.

Half of the descriptive text I remember was parsing out some tract of extra-dimensional space-time and how it was in accordance with D&D's convoluted alignment system that bears no semblance of a resemblance to the way actual people's behavior defines itself over time.

 

[FeelTheRads]

It's probably better to lay off the juice.

To that extent, half of the descriptive text in TTON I remember is describing how someone's smile looked like a moon on the sky full of brilliant but musty stars or some shit.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

It's probably better to lay off the juice.

To that extent, half of the descriptive text in TTON I remember is describing how someone's smile looked like a moon on the sky full of brilliant but musty stars or some shit.

It's fair to question my degree of .... Highness.... when I played the game. I question it myself. But I really don't think you delved into the nuance of the text the way it could have been delved into....and obviously I'm not the only one. Maybe around these parts I am, but certainly not among reviewers who saw the same level of depth.

I was pretty goddamned straight when I played PS:T...I distinctly remember....and I distinctly remember a whole helluva lot of discussion about and around the planes that were around and how they aligned with the different alignments.

And the alignments are pretty fucking dumb really....I say this as a lifelong AD&D guy.

 

[FeelTheRads]

So? That's part of the Planescape setting, but "endless" or "half of the descriptive" text? Fuck off.

Yeah, you totally delved so deep into it, nobody here played this game several times or analyzed the text before. Thank fuck for a newfag wannabe philosopher who learned how "people behave" on Twitter.

And what's a "lifelong D&D guy"? I thought you didn't really play the classic RPGs and in the other thread you mentioned Marvel Super Heroes and Gamma World for PnP.

So... then... perhaps stop pretending to be knowledgeable about stuff you are actually clueless about?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I was pretty goddamned straight

But playing Numa-numa made a faggot outta you.

 

[Prime Junta]

Sounds like somebody completely missed what PS:T is about.

hint: it's not the alignment system

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

who learned how "people behave" on Twitter.

When did i make this claim? That I learned how people behaved on Twitter? (I've never used it).

I've already said that I think the writing in PS:T was better, that the game was better overall. I'm sorry that I exaggerated the extent of the musings on the various plane alignments....but it's a large chunk of what I remember from it...and I found that aspect inane.

I'm not going to recount all of the things I loved about PS:T because you already know them....and they have been recounted numerous times before on this site. I love Planescape: Torment soooooo much....ok?