Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

[Azarkon]

Planescape Torment didn't sell well at the time, but its classic status was obvious. Despite the many complaints about the combat, I remember nearly everyone at the time understood the quality of the story, the world building, and the characters. Dedicated defenders of the game came out almost immediately, and the community was divided between those who loved it with all their heart, and those who hated it with a passion.

In short, Planescape Torment was never a game that was merely okay, not bad, doesn't suck, etc. Can we say the same for this game? I doubt it.

 

[janjetina]

Kevin Saunders is a class act.

 

[Lurker King]

Infinitron, no one in his right mind will bad mouth their past employers on public, unless they have a meltdown, are drunk, or both. We can't take things people say in public at face value, because they have conflicts of interest.

 

[Jarpie]

You think they'd admit that there's something wrong with the project or Saunders would publicly talk shit, and effectively ruin his career because you don't shit where you eat? Have you ever seen anyone shitting on the projects they leave for whatever reason unless there's been public spat?

How fucking dim are you?

Edit: Let me spell it out for you, he'd get blackballed in the industry the second he'd say anything negative about any project he'd worked on previously, or any ex-employer.

 

[Dwarvophile]

One argument I don't really get when comes answers to the critics on Numerana's combat is "maybe, but hey, PS T had shitty combats too".

That was 15 years ago ! CRPGs were a baby medium at the time ! I mean I didn't even realise those combats were bad at the time since it 's the first crpg I ever played !
How can it be an excuse for a game coming 15 years later with all those great turn based CRPG in between offering tons of inspiration and expertise ? How silly of an excuse is it ?

Find it convenient that when critics are adressing PS T's strenghts like the writing and saying it's not as good in Numerana they're answered "hey, don't take the title "spiritual child" too seriously" but when those critics are adressed to what was also PS T's weakness like combats and character's prog then this filiation is used as a shield.

Just something I observed, haven't play the game yet, just enjoying the butthurt shitstorm show.

 

[Infinitron]

You think they'd admit that there's something wrong with the project or Saunders would publicly talk shit, and effectively ruin his career because you don't shit where you eat? Have you ever seen anyone shitting on the projects they leave for whatever reason unless there's been public spat?

How fucking dim are you?

Edit: Let me spell it out for you, he'd get blackballed in the industry the second he'd say anything negative about any project he'd worked on previously, or any ex-employer.

No, but I think they wouldn't speak to each other at all if there was bad blood.

I'm not shilling for Torment or saying it's the greatest game, guys. I just think saying "Torment was going to be GOOD, but then Brian Fargo fired his game director to make it BAD instead" is a silly conspiracy theory.

 

[Lurker King]

I don’t think there is bad blood between the two either. I think this was a disagreement between Fargo and Saunders.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I'm not shilling for Torment or saying it's the greatest game, guys.

YES YOU ARE

 

[AwesomeButton]

If it's indeed bad, I don't really care much who is personally responsible. I doubt there is a single person responsible.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Oh, Avellone vs. Sawyer round two. The brilliant but wacky folk hero is being kept from greatness by the the mindless corporate drones.

You guys are so predictable with your conspiracy theories it's unreal.

 

[Popiel]

Yeah, this piece alone is better than whole Numanuma game. Fuck this Nu-male-era shit. *goes and replays Planescape: Torment*

 

[TT1]

Infinitron I am curious about your view of this whole dev process. You are the only one trying to say "hey, calm down, inxile is doing fine and the game is not the mess the codex is pointing".

Actually, I have another doubt: is there any chance that we are totally crazy and this game (and inxile) is doing ok? I see a lot of tweets loving the game, reviews are mostly good... I dont think mostly people even know about the cut stretch goals and all this shit storm.

 

[CyberWhale]

I like the fact that PS:T still has the best looking characters of all these (newer) games.

 

[Roguey]

Infinitron, no one in his right mind will bad mouth their past employers on public, unless they have a meltdown, are drunk, or both. We can't take things people say in public at face value, because they have conflicts of interest.

Melting Chris Drunkallone.

(the third option being that you're enough of a superstar that it no longer matters)

 

[Parabalus]

I like the fact that PS:T still has the best looking characters of all these (newer) games.

Yes, it's remarkable how good looking PS:T is for a game almost 20 years old. It's much visually clearer and just flat out gorgeous compared to ToN.

 

[Lacrymas]

And the characters aren't literally the same model, even the supposedly alien ones.

 

[Jarpie]

PS:T is even better looking if you add a bit of sharpening with reshade, just enough to take away the slight blurryness.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Infinitron, no one in his right mind will bad mouth their past employers on public, unless they have a meltdown, are drunk, or both. We can't take things people say in public at face value, because they have conflicts of interest.

Chris Avellone seems quite happy to trash the managers at Obsidian on his personal Twitter feed. Although he hasn't said it directly, it is obvious he means Feargus as he was passive-aggressively live tweeting while watching Feargus' IGN interview.

 

[vortex]

T:TON should have had improved and even more systematic KOTOR gameplay with different mechanics introduced. Narrative could be balanced out with riveting encounters.
Encounters could be faster paced and interesting without loosing the core cRPG touch.
That way old school players wouldn't be left out and more diverse gaming community could get interested in T:TON.

 

[Lurker King]

That was 15 years ago ! CRPGs were a baby medium at the time!

If that was a baby medium, the present game industry must be in the womb then, because the genre is regressing instead of progressing. Most developers don't know how to make a decent isometric engine, the art is usually 3D, the art direction is usually worse, the writing as a whole is worse, the resource management is worse, the combat systems are worse, everything is worse.

 

[Schizophrenic monolog]

Steamspy says there are 40.000 people playing Torment.

I don't think those numbers mean anything.

TTON audience probably much older than GTA, Doom and Tomb Raider alike audience.
For example, I really love TTON but I only play an average of one hour a day.
I have a family, work and other things to do through out the day - unlike the average gamer - a 16 years old boy - who can play a game 10 hours a day.

And Torment was never meant to sell like POE.

It's a very "Wordy" game with slow pace and very philosophic approach unlike games like Doom or even POE that are more combat oriented...

And I do believe that the market today have even less patience for heavy games with lots of words and fewer battles...

So, I don't think TTON going to sell as well as lots of you guys here think or thought.

So the main question is - is TTON any good?

After few hours in the game I believe it's awesome.
Maybe because nobody make games like this anymore - which make him one of a kind by default.
Or maybe because it's really that good in my opinion...

I read lots of different opinions here, but the bottom line is that I'll be the judge of TTON after I'll finish it.

And my advice to those who love CRPG is to play the game for yourself.
Some of you, like me, probably will enjoy it!

 

[Roguey]

Chris Avellone seems quite happy to trash the managers at Obsidian on his personal Twitter feed. Although he hasn't said it directly, it is obvious he means Feargus as he was passive-aggressively live tweeting while watching Feargus' IGN interview.

He's no longer willing to defend Chris Parker either.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Chris Avellone seems quite happy to trash the managers at Obsidian on his personal Twitter feed. Although he hasn't said it directly, it is obvious he means Feargus as he was passive-aggressively live tweeting while watching Feargus' IGN interview.

He's no longer willing to defend Chris Parker either.

I know you have a quote somewhere - I'd be interested to see it.

 

[Repulsive]

On top of that, using those numbers doesn't make any sense. Torment didn't sold 400k in three days, and neither did BG2 sold 1 M copies in the same amount of time, they sold those numbers in about one year since release. Comparing them to what PoE and TToN sold in half a week is retarded.

These numbers are misleading because they don’t reflect how many players still genuinely appreciate these games. They didn’t have steam back in the day. So when BG2 sold more than two million copies, more than two million people actually went to the stories to buy the game and play it. They were actual gamers. Now, when you look at the numbers and see that PoE sold more than 800 thousand copies, what does it mean, especially if you consider the abysmal completion rates, sales and bundles? That most of these sales results from impulse from people who don’t appreciate these games. The same thing holds for ToN. The actual target audience is just a segment of the backers. That old-school cRPGs are a dying culture was never clearer than now. The new generation of cRPG players is smaller than ever. So, the next time you decide to throw numbers to show how cRPGs are selling better, stop and think a little bit.

Fuck!

 

[Lacrymas]

unlike the average gamer - a 16 years old boy - who can play the game 10 hours a day.

Uhm, no, the average gamer is in their 20s, even older. 73% of them are above 18.

http://www.theesa.com/about-esa/industry-facts/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/189582/age-of-us-video-game-players-since-2010/

These are US statistics, but I don't see why it wouldn't be similar in other places.