Game News Torment Kickstarter Update #51: Beta coming on January 17th, Itemization Info

[Excidium II]

Holy fucknuts, brehs !

DIS' GON' B GUD

Just like Wasteland 2 eh eh. I thought you had written InXile off.

 

[Infinitron]

To be fair, he didn't have that much opportunity to sound off on Wasteland 2 since we kept banning him.

 

[Daedalos]

Holy fucknuts, brehs !

DIS' GON' B GUD

Just like Wasteland 2 eh eh. I thought you had written InXile off.

Nah, wasteland 2 was a pretty flawed game, we could all agree on that. But it has heart, it has alot of pretty decent stuff, too. Especially the Director's Cut, for me at least, made up for some of the shortcomings of the vanilla game.

I'm quite confident that Torment will be entire leagues ahead of WL2, or I might be quite disappointed this time around. We'll see, though.

 

[Brother None]

Since InXile has decided to completely thrown out the meaning of beta, how are they now using the term? Being in beta just means "it now feels beta-ish enough for us"? Or perhaps more likely, "people will be pissed that it's not even in beta yet so let's start calling it a beta"?

They definitely (100%) ran out of KS money, so they're selling a half-assed version of the early game to get more money and fund the rest, just like they did with WL2. I'd bet that's why Fargo fired Kevin, he looks like someone who would fight against that sort of thing.

Don't forget about my debilitating coke habit burning a hole through the budget, or the long-term secret plan to make sea the lead on all projects since Canadian labor is cheap.

Definitely. 100%.

 

[Haba]

So how many months have you been without salary?

 

[Irenaeus II]

You can rent sea's body for codexers as an extra source of income.

 

[Schizophrenic monolog]

I always use the same test on games - to know if they worth playing or not.

The test is very simple.

All you need is two screens (pc monitor & cellular monitor will do just fine).
Some weed,
And lots of body lotion.

Now smoke...
(Tip: always smoke, no matter what you do in your pathetic little life).

After smoking, start the game on one screen, and play your favorite porn clip on the other.

Start playing the game and see how much can you hold on before starting jerking off.

By the way, this test also help you to define your best games ever.

**Those are the ones you jerk off while watching them and not the porn **

 

[Fairfax]

Gotta love this place.
Hope you're doing alright, ksaun. I think you know it was a compliment.

Unless they're all being paid peanuts, it's very hard to believe the KS money hasn't been spent. PoE had a team that fluctuated between 20-35 people, around 20 most of the time, and Obsidian had to spend their own money after some point. That's a game that was released 10 months ago and raised just $200k less than TTON. It's understandable, however. It happened to all KS RPGs, except some simply cut a lot of content instead of delaying the game. I don't like KS games being sold in EA, however. Once you do that, it's no longer exclusively about getting useful feedback from backers, it has to be a product that's able to raise more money, and these are conflicting purposes.

I called it half-assed because (according to Fargo) it's basically the first part of the final game as a separate release. Maybe it's been the plan all along and the whole area was designed accordingly, but who can say for sure? I'd be skeptical regardless of their explanation, considering they'll be selling it on steam at the same time.
For all its flaws, the PoE Beta did it right. It had no connection to the critical path of the game but it had enough for both sides to get what they wanted. I don't mind at all, but TTON backers who care about spoilers will have no option.

I think the Beta will be good (except the peformance, it'll be shit just like the alpha and PoE), and my expections have been realistic since the KS. It also "helps" that the Numenera setting isn't nearly as interesting as Planescape to me.

 

[Daedalos]

I bought the digital deluxe version, it says I get beta access.

I should be good for jan. 19th release right? and not 26th? Bought it on the torment backer-site

 

[darthaegis]

2- Divinity is TBS and is massively praised on steam

The problem is that even when it was on KS retards were complaining that since PS:T had RTwP crap combat, a turn-based T:ToN wouldn't be a proper spiritual succesor.

 

[almondblight]

Unless they're all being paid peanuts, it's very hard to believe the KS money hasn't been spent.

You're also talking about a game that was stuck in pre-production for a year and a half while they were waiting for the bulk of their team to finish with the much-delayed Wasteland 2. So I wouldn't be surprised if there were monetary issues. They've also been recently making cuts to the game, which apparently has created some problems.

 

[Infinitron]

The thing about not having the bulk of your team is that you don't have to pay them: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/posts/874905

One year following TTON’s Kickstarter, more than 80% of the development budget remained

Wasteland 2 managed to double its budget and all inXile had to sell back then was Bard's Tale ARPG on mobile. The idea that they would run out of money now when they have WL2 itself bringing in money AND a larger KS budget to begin with is fairly ludicrous.

 

[Irenaeus II]

It's not about the money.

 

[ksaun]

Gotta love this place.
Hope you're doing alright, ksaun. I think you know it was a compliment.

Yes, I do know. (And thank you.)

 

[almondblight]

The thing about not having the bulk of your team is that you don't have to pay them: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/posts/874905

One year following TTON’s Kickstarter, more than 80% of the development budget remained

In June 2014. They were still working on bringing over members of the Wasteland 2 team 6 months later.

Wasteland 2 managed to double its budget and all inXile had to sell back then was Bard's Tale ARPG on mobile. The idea that they would run out of money now when they have WL2 itself bringing in money AND a larger KS budget to begin with is fairly ludicrous.

And with Bard's Tale IV having a much smaller KS budget. They're not going to run out of money, but it's quite possible that they'll push Torment out before it's ready because they don't have the time and funds to realize the original vision (and because they're expecting certain revenue streams to appear at certain times). It's hard to see how Wasteland 2's delays wouldn't have contributed to that, particularly since it seems pretty clear it contributed to Torment's delayed production schedule.

 

[Infinitron]

What RPG hasn't been pushed out before it's ready? Those Enhanced Editions keep coming out for a reason.

Ultimately, since Wasteland 2 DC isn't exactly tearing up the charts, Torment is going to be inXile's main source of revenue for foreseeable future. They're not going to cock it up.

 

[almondblight]

Ultimately, since Wasteland 2 DC isn't exactly tearing up the charts, Torment is going to be inXile's main source of revenue for foreseeable future. They're not going to cock it up.

Alternatively, they're going to cock it up as much as they need to to get it to the market fast, because they need that "main source of revenue." The concern here is that the actually production time is getting screwed over, because Wasteland 2 caused it to start late, and the lackluster response of WL2: DC and BTIV means they need to release it sooner rather than later. Chris Keenan's post in the update where Saunder's left came across like someone who was trying to polish this up just enough to push the game out the door.

 

[Infinitron]

Well, so far, his actual record consists of delaying the release of the game's beta.

So uh. I don't know dude, there's no real litmus test for determining who's going to be right here. No matter when the game comes out, there will be something they could have done better, because that's how RPGs are. Including Planescape "becomes kind of crap after Sigil" Torment.

Bottom line, optimists gonna optimist, pessimists gonna pessimist

 

[Crooked Bee]

(I.e., I am not sure the latest Fairfax Theory(TM) will hold up to scrutiny after players have experienced the beta.)

To play the pessimist's advocate, the Fairfax Theory (TM) doesn't really have much to do with the quality of the beta. Obviously, the early areas are going to be more polished, but what about the later ones or the game as a whole? I think the concern here is how much of the later-game content is going to be sized down or of lower quality or outright cut in order to make the 2016 release date / save up money / cover up BN's extravagant coke habit.

 

[almondblight]

Well, so far, his actual record consists of delaying the release of the game's beta.

That's certainly a selective way of putting it. After about ~8-10 months of production Torment put out it's first Alpha in mid-August; 2.5 months later Chris Keenan take over, saying he's going to try to have the beta out by the end of the year (IE, within two months, or after about a year of production). Two months later, he says it's actually going to come out 2.5 weeks late.

I can't really read that as "this dude is delaying things", but YMMV.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Sometimes, when I deviate from my "no spoilers or overanalysis" plan for Torment, read the threads and get a dose of doom and gloom, I read this old 2014 post by someone who sounds like he gives a shit. I'm sure with this guy involved there are still grounds for optimism:

I don't think it has to do with how much we care, though. Whenever we finish a game, there is a specific fix/enhancement/etc. that will be the lowest priority item that we managed to achieve, and another that is the highest priority one that we had to let go.

From the perspective of a creator, I've rarely worked on a game where I wouldn't have liked more time/$ to make it better. Finalization of a game is a triage process and you aren't able to fix/improve everything as much as you would have liked. Many of us are perfectionists, but diminishing returns and financial realities force us to draw a line.

This is a generalization, but we make games because we love making games. We hope that we can make a living doing so, and appreciate daily our families' understanding and support in our having chosen this volatile and demanding profession. What I mean is, any flaws in quality are due to our incompetence, not our not caring.
...
I have found a agile-style approach to video game development to often be more effective, at least for the types of games I have worked on. I don't mean that the scope is unknown, but I do mean that certain aspects of the scope are left fluid so that the team can adjust as the project progresses. Among other benefits, this approach helps manage risks without sacrificing quality as much as some other approaches might.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Now you want to make me cry

 

[MRY]

On a practically daily basis, I spend an inordinate amount of time trying to guesstimate, via Steamspy, how Primordia is selling because WEG apparently can't give us realtime access to that information. The funny thing is, with a month's lag, I get the exact sales figures from WEG. Also, if there's a movie I'm really excited about (but am willing to tolerate some spoilers on), I'll do crazy things like try to find leaked teaser trailers on YouTube. I mention this because I generally recognize myself to be an irrational person whose bad habits are wasteful and unnecessarily stress-inducing, and I hope you guys can learn from my sad example and do as I say, not as I do.

The beta is imminent. Either it will be good or it won't. If it's bad, then you'll have ample opportunity to throw tomatoes and point fingers. If it's good, you can defend the game's virtue against even the slightest criticism. But in the meanwhile, repeatedly shaking the box under the tree to try and figure out what's inside seems like a pretty inefficient use of your time. Surely the battlegrounds of AOD, Undertale vs. Underrail, PoE, and so forth offer better fights than this one.

Here I'm speaking purely in my own personal capacity, not as a contractor working on the game. The only thing I'll say as someone working on the game is that everyone I've worked with on it is pouring in their love and time in generous quantities, and they all seem like good people trying to do the right thing. Of course, "the road to hell," etc., etc.

 

[Infinitron]

To play the pessimist's advocate, the Fairfax Theory (TM) doesn't really have much to do with the quality of the beta.

Actually, that's exactly what it has to do with ("half-assed version of the early game"). But a Crooked Bee Theory is good too.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Pfft, I just assumed it was the general "they're gonna rush / cut down the game" theory; it's not like I'm actually reading any of those posts, b-baka. Crooked Bee Theory is fine by me.