Mod News TOEE: Livonya's Mod Beta 1.0

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Oh Jesus, it's actually late 2003.

So we're supposed to get excited about a shitty RPG that's not coming up on its first birthday, but that is actually pushing TWO YEARS OLD?

You could 'fix' ToEE til it's the shining gold standard of programming and the game would never be better than average. Yeah, it did combat 'by the book.' Whoopdie-fucking-doo.

Go fix Arcanum instead. At least there's something original there under the layers of crap.

actually freedom of speech do allow people to behave like a dick. it's one of the down side of freedom. quite a number of folks here are exercising their right to behave like a dick in this forum all the time. look at the above post for example.

What else do you have to get excited about?

I don't know about you but in my experience there are no good games coming out that I like.

The problem I see is that the kinds of games that I like aren't being released. I would love to play great new games, but where are these games?

I often end up playing old games instead of playing new games.

I replayed Jagged Alliance in 2003. That may have been my favorite gaming experience in 2003. Kind of sad when my favorite game was an old game that I played many times.

I thought Troika's new Vampire game was great. I love the genera. I also loved the first Vampire The Masquerade game... I replayed that in 2002 and 2001. Awesome game. It got a bum rap for being too linear, but I still think it looked wonderful and played great (even before the stop/pause command patch).

Planescape Torment is my favorite game of all time. I have played it many, many, many times. I think it is better than most new games.

I'm old. I used to play text only games on my Trash-80. I loved Wizardry 1 when it first came out. I played Bard's Tale on the Commodore. Hell, I loved Adventure on the Atari.

I realize those games aren't that great now, and I am not looking to glorify them... I would LOVE to play great new games that thrill me.

But where are these new games?

I understand that TOEE is an old game, but who cares?

What came out in 2004 or 2005 that was so amazing that you don't need anything different to play?

I would LOVE it if there were just a few great new games that came out every year so that I didn't have to go back to the old ones. But that just isn't happening.

- Livonya

Quoted for truth.



.:RE: Livonya's Beta 1.0 Mod.

Thanks for sharing this. I appreciate the amount of time it must take to do this. Kudos!

I also think that TOEE could have been a smashing game. Given more time etc. Too bad Troika tumbled.

With all the hard work that went into this. I DL'd & installed the mod. About to go off and find some adventurers looking for a challenge.

I agree with Livonya that old games are fun to play. Even with all these new games out I still find time to play old games like Age of Wonders and Jagged Alliance 2. They're classic titles, and like wine, they age well with time.

You're an idiot.


My only problem with this mod is the need to install it on a clean install. I would need to remove my old copy and lose all my save files. (Well, I could just install to a different dir... but getting a little short on HD space... heh.)

So IWD2 is better than the GB games in every way... but the GB games were more fun? Self-contradiction is fun isn't it!?! Obviously the GB games were better at being fun.

You just said the GB games were dungeon crawls, and it's pretty hard to characterize ToEE as anything other than a dungeon crawl. Not to mention FINALLY getting combat to feel much like it did back in the gold box days, where you had a turn based system, full party control and an actual need for tactics.

Sorry, but ToEE <i>is</i> a GB game with better graphics.

It's great that you can read minds! Maybe people like ToEE because we've missed having fun combat in CRPGs. Roleplaying isn't even a consideration in my reasons for liking then game.

I really doubt it. It will have some type of discrepancies at least. That's because the mod adds quests and fixes dialogs.

"Freedom of speech =/= freedom to behave like a dick"

You have no clue what freedom of speech is. You also seem to have forgotten exactly what makes the 'Codex worth posting at. It's because the 'Codex (99% of the time) actually practices Freedom of Speech.

Stop whining, and go cum to Dungeon Seige 2.


"So IWD2 is better than the GB games in every way... but the GB games were more fun? Self-contradiction is fun isn't it!?! Obviously the GB games were better at being fun."

No. I was just a lot easier to please back then. Oh the simple times. If I were to play the GB games now; I would quit them so qucik their non existent heads would spin.

As an example: At 12 years, a look at a boobie was enough to get younbg boys to cum. In your twenties, you need to see 2 boobies to cum. It's a rule of life. That is all.


"You just said the GB games were dungeon crawls, and it's pretty hard to characterize ToEE as anything other than a dungeon crawl. Not to mention FINALLY getting combat to feel much like it did back in the gold box days, where you had a turn based system, full party control and an actual need for tactics.

Sorry, but ToEE is a GB game with better graphics."

Wrong. TOEE, while I spit on its story and role-playing has more of both in its two pinky fingers. Once again, TOEE has more in common with the modern games.


"It's great that you can read minds! Maybe people like ToEE because we've missed having fun combat in CRPGs. Roleplaying isn't even a consideration in my reasons for liking then game."

You are an idiot. If role-playing isn't what you look for in a agme than why, pray tell; are you posting on a role-playing game site? TOEE's combat isn't fun. In order for combat to be fun it should be challenging and it shouldn't consist of fighting the same bugbears over and over and again or bugbear wannabes.

And, oh, turn base combat doesn't automatically = fun. Afterall, POR2 proves this.


"You're an idiot."

the only idiot is the one who takes two posts in a row to reply to the same poster. R00fles!


"They're classic titles, and like wine, they age well with time."

Bullshit. Most ancient games ar ebest lef tin the past. There are very rare exceptions, and TOEE is NOT one of them. FO is. BG is. NWN is. Arcanum is. Ultima is. Those two trashy games you mention and espicially TOEE aren't.


"also think that TOEE could have been a smashing game"

Coulda. Woulda. Should. Means absolutely shit. Troika's could have sold millions of copies; but they didn't. Tough shit.


"I thought Troika's new Vampire game was great. I love the genera. I also loved the first Vampire The Masquerade game."

Do not comapre Troika's Vampire to the first Vampire game. Even in spite of Bl's problems it is 100% better in EVERY WAY than the first one. IN EVERY WAY.

And, it's not about TOEE being an old game really; it's about it being an old AND crappy game. Big difference.

Like I said earlier, freedom of speech does not equal to freedom of being a dick. It can just as easily be freedom of not being a dick.

This Mod sounds really cool I can't wait to try it, Great work Livonya

Unless you get a kick out of mutilated women. In which case one boobie will do thank you very much :wink:

Well, Jagged Alliance 2 definitely stacks up still in terms of gameplay. In fact, if it had never been released, and was released now with modern graphics and with the same gameplay most of us would be praising it very highly and the strategy press would be having spontaneous orgasms.
Even without modern graphics, its bloody good.

Anyway, your moaning earlier is pretty crap in light of the simple fact that if TOEE is improved to be very good instead of just "flawed", then WE R TEH WINNAS. How can anything be bad about that? And all because this person wants to do it FOR FREE.

Yeah, ok then.

Actually at 12 all I needed was the blurred out boobies you could sometimes catch on late night tv shows or MTV spring break shows. By 20 I needed a lot more than just 2 boobies...

(I blame the internets!)

No.

First there's no way you can prove that, it's just your half remembered take on the situation. Second, you're just wrong. Even the early GB games had plenty of story, while all ToEE had was a town where you could convert every other person's religion and a dungeon crawl through the temple.

Heh... just to really twist your mind up remember that I'm developing an RPG too!

Just remember, I spent a lot of time when I first came here arguing that it's IMPOSSIBLE to actually have roleplaying in a video game.

To answer your question though: Because I enjoy the arguments.

Wrong.

In fact it's very nearly the game's only redeeming quality.

Yes, the combat could have been harder in some places. In fact that's one of the thing this patch you are bitching about fixes! But the feel of the combat was right, and challenge was to be found in a few places. (That one tower on the east side of the temple for instance, and a couple of the demons in the nodes gave me real trouble.)

Of course, difficulty is directly affected by how strong of a party you take in. I got my ass kicked a lot with my first party (1 pal and 1 ranger as tanks) but my second party (1 half-orc fighter, 1 half orc barb, 1 half orc fighter/rogue (I think)) just destroyed everything they fought. Think it's too easy? Take a weaker party.

Fallout proves it to, but all other things being equal turn based is better.

*shrug*

So your first post was idiotic enough to merit an immediate response before I read the rest of the thread. You want a medal?

Volourn got schooled by Sarvis! What a fucking scrub.

Yes it does. It pretty much means you can say anything you want as long as it doesn't endanger anyone (ie. shouting fire in a crowded room and causing a panic when there isn't really a fire.)

Does that mean I get a rank upgrade?

Actually it doesn't equal the freedom of being a dick because it can also refer to the freedom of not being a dick or the freedom of saying absolutely nothing at all. It's hard to convey abstracts into mathematics.

Besides, if being a dick and saying things that hurt the feelings of others causes them to endanger themselves (e.g. driving a suicidal person over the edge), it'd hold the dick liable for causing emotional anguish.

Anyhow the point I was trying to convey was that just because you have the freedom of speech shouldn't mean you have to be a fucking dick.

Well, for our purposes Freedom of Speech <i>includes</i> the right to be a dick. You seemed to be trying to say that FoS did not grant that right... no fair hiding behind strict mathmatics!

(Besides, in programming I might consider a class equal to another even if they only share one property... if that property is what I'm interested in!)


Now... about that rank upgrade!

You're gonna have to work harder for that rank upgrade, Sarvis!

A = {freedom of being a dick, freedom of not being a dick, freedom of saying absolutely nothing at all}

A subsetof Freedom of Speech

[I tried to work out how to do some mathy looking stuff, but failed dismaly]

Edit:
if I were to do it as a class hierarchy, the each of {freedom of being a dick, freedom of not being a dick, freedom of saying absolutely nothing at all} would be a subclass of Freedom of Speech. A function that took something of type Freedom of Speech would also therefore take (for example) "freedom of being a dick"; for all intents and purposes "freedom of being a dick" is of type Freedom of Speech in this context.
Class semantics can differ in this respect to set semantics.
Edit2:
Actually, there is more to it than that, and I am therefore not being accurate enough. But who cares? 'Tis boring stuff.

I could not disagree more. I simply loved Redemption.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it was a bad game. All that means is that you didn't like it. The same can be said for TOEE. Just because you thought it was crappy doesn't mean that it was crappy.

What I really don't understand is why you give a f*ck what people think?

Why bother wasting your time coming to this thread to post your negative views?

It makes no sense to me.

What do you care?

Do you have something to gain by slamming the game?

Does it hurt you that other people like it?

Your negativity is so often wasted because it is so poorly aimed.

I can't think of one possible reason how you could possibly benefit from telling other people what to do, what to play, or what to think.

Do you really care that I bothered to spend my time to make this MOD.

The fact that you complain about it is what seems like a waste of time to me.

You should spend more time dealing with your own life and less time being concerned with what people you don't know are doing with their lives.

The sad part is that I am now waisting my time responding to your pointless complaints.

- Livonya

Believe me, if I had a dollar for everyone who felt like that about Trollourn, well, then I could buy another computer game.

Exitium: Please. Freedom of Speech is exactly that. If some goes commits suicde because I said some mean things to them good riddance to bad rubiish. That's their responsibility not mine.


Sarvis: "Actually at 12 all I needed was the blurred out boobies you could sometimes catch on late night tv shows or MTV spring break shows. By 20 I needed a lot more than just 2 boobies...

(I blame the internets!) "

LOL That's true. Thanks to the internet, I actually need sex videos. A picture just won't do it now. LOL


"Even the early GB games had plenty of story"

No they didn't.


"To answer your question though: Because I enjoy the arguments."

You can argue on almost any forum. I'm here 'cause I cana rgue about role-playing games.


"Wrong.

In fact it's very nearly the game's only redeeming quality."

Wrong. It's combat SYSTEM is its rdeeming quality. It's COMBAT was poor.


"Think it's too easy? Take a weaker party."

That's retarded VD talk. I mean, if I really wanted the game to be hard; I could always play a solo mage who only uses his fists. R00fles!


"Fallout proves it to"

Do not compare FO tb combat to POR2 tb combat. Fo's was awesome. Moron.


"You want a medal?"

if it's made out of pure gold and I cna make a decent profit out of it; absolutely I want a medal.


Shagnak: "Anyway, your moaning earlier is pretty crap in light of the simple fact that if TOEE is improved to be very good instead of just "flawed", then WE R TEH WINNAS. How can anything be bad about that? And all because this person wants to do it FOR FREE."

If the modder is as good as I hope they are; their talents are better used improving games that are already good; not games that simply suck.



Livonya: "I could not disagree more. I simply loved Redemption.

Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean it was a bad game. All that means is that you didn't like it. The same can be said for TOEE. Just because you thought it was crappy doesn't mean that it was crappy. "

Yes it does. Redemption was crap. Bl was good. Anyone who thinks otherwise obviously missed the boat on the Intelligence Train in the Sky.


"What I really don't understand is why you give a f*ck what people think?"

Pot. Kettle. Black.


"Why bother wasting your time coming to this thread to post your negative views?"

Are you an iidot? This is the Codex? This is what we do. We see soemthing we dislike we don't go hide under a rock and pretend everyone agrees. We state our opoinions and go from there. Are you sure you have actually reead this board before? I sure hope not as if you did you better reread it.

The rest of your crap is just that crap.


P.S. Don't take it so personally. Afterall, I never said your mod sucked. All i pointed out was that your time and effort and hopefully solid modding skill was better server on better games ala BL or Arcanum or NWN or Fo or heck, even Ultima 1.

R00fles!

Heh... I actually looked through my old Discrete Math textbook to see if there were any other takes on equality for sets...

No it isn't! Hell you've got me running through class designs for Freedom of Speech and right to be a dick as we speak!

Yeah, that is one way of looking at it, but another way of looking at it is that now we might have even more good games as a result of the modding :shock: