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Titan: Blizzard's cancelled MMO.

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
"Years ago games were turn-based because computers weren't powerful enough to handle actually computing things in real-time."

:x

Tab targeting has its place. That place being if you want to make a game where your character doesn't spend most of its time flailing at air and your players do not spend most of their time trying to aim their mouse cursor.
They aren't fucking turn based, that's the problem. If they were, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

And flailing at air is exactly what you do in those games. Flailing while skating.

Turn based + tab targeting. What is this, I don't even...
 

xemous

Arcane
Joined
Aug 6, 2004
Messages
1,107
Location
AU
guys wow is dead and blizzards in panic mode

at this rate the best case scenario is 4 million subs by the end of the year.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
They're going to lose 4-5 million subscribers in six months? No.
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
So TOR killed WoW? :troll:

No seriously, now you guys only have to speculate what WoW's upkeep costs are. Then you can predict the exact point when WoW stops being profitable. Predict as exactly as any stock market analyst, I mean ;)
 

Maiandros

Learned
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
296
Location
Infinite Space
well if i may..:)
am gonna disagree a bit more;
- First of all, in regards to "flailing", you don't "flail" at tab targetted MMOs mate, you just can't..tab target means system needs item hot-locked, or you get the server-client error of "nothing targetted".
(you know where you DO "flail" J1M ? At akshun based mmos, because so the client allows, enforces in fact, or it wouldn't behave as akshun..you may seriously wish to rephrase your previous two posts)

- Fail/decline/sucks/shit is preference. Just as going to the Tacticular Cancer board decrying team management could be deemed as 'preference'..... Context. Context. Context.

- Since i am not so sure the point got across, should have stressed it more; Millions of dollars (and Yen for one company in specific) have been spent in researches aimed at defining and understanding the psychological/behavioural factor behind Online gaming. There have so far (and i have covered them so i would know) been only -three- points that coincide in each and every one of them:

a) The average playing time of an MMORPG player is roughly 6 hours. It goes up to 8 and 9 during weekends/bank holidays/vacations.

b) The average -----paying----- customer is around or above their thirties. (It is what i mentioned in passing in my previous post, ie, they get physically tired easily. Yes, i mean their fingers. You get them tired and unable to compete with the youngsters, they go. They go, you lose your best customer)

c) From the combat systems implemented thus far, the one found to allow for minimum fatigue and maximised focus, in terms of time duration, is tab-targetted combat.
[games that went another route have either failed, or remained niche..niche may be fine for you, or me, but it is not fine for companies, and it is not fine for the average MMORPGer, since niche means less people, and they kinda -do- play to -be- with people. Many people. The more the merrier. It's why they want Massively. People]
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
If they don't shit out another expansion soon, 5-6m is a possibility.

Maybe another million or so. But 5-6 million? Not a chance. Most of the people who play WoW now are either 1) addicts or 2) casual players who log on for thirty minutes, do their dailies, and log off. Anyone who actually gave a shit about speed of content (and wasn't a pure addict) quit a long time ago. The gaps in between major patches have been the same if not longer since Burning Crusade and they actually release less content now since they mirror the 10 and 25 man dungeons.
 

Ehon Asko

Novice
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
17
well if i may..:)
am gonna disagree a bit more;
- First of all, in regards to "flailing", you don't "flail" at tab targetted MMOs mate, you just can't..tab target means system needs item hot-locked, or you get the server-client error of "nothing targetted".
(you know where you DO "flail" J1M ? At akshun based mmos, because so the client allows, enforces in fact, or it wouldn't behave as akshun..you may seriously wish to rephrase your previous two posts)

- Fail/decline/sucks/shit is preference. Just as going to the Tacticular Cancer board decrying team management could be deemed as 'preference'..... Context. Context. Context.

- Since i am not so sure the point got across, should have stressed it more; Millions of dollars (and Yen for one company in specific) have been spent in researches aimed at defining and understanding the psychological/behavioural factor behind Online gaming. There have so far (and i have covered them so i would know) been only -three- points that coincide in each and every one of them:

a) The average playing time of an MMORPG player is roughly 6 hours. It goes up to 8 and 9 during weekends/bank holidays/vacations.

b) The average -----paying----- customer is around or above their thirties. (It is what i mentioned in passing in my previous post, ie, they get physically tired easily. Yes, i mean their fingers. You get them tired and unable to compete with the youngsters, they go. They go, you lose your best customer)

c) From the combat systems implemented thus far, the one found to allow for minimum fatigue and maximised focus, in terms of time duration, is tab-targetted combat.
[games that went another route have either failed, or remained niche..niche may be fine for you, or me, but it is not fine for companies, and it is not fine for the average MMORPGer, since niche means less people, and they kinda -do- play to -be- with people. Many people. The more the merrier. It's why they want Massively. People]

Then why has every tab target mmo since wow flopped terribly or became niche?
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
well if i may..:)
am gonna disagree a bit more;
- First of all, in regards to "flailing", you don't "flail" at tab targetted MMOs mate, you just can't..tab target means system needs item hot-locked, or you get the server-client error of "nothing targetted".
(you know where you DO "flail" J1M ? At akshun based mmos, because so the client allows, enforces in fact, or it wouldn't behave as akshun..you may seriously wish to rephrase your previous two posts)

- Fail/decline/sucks/shit is preference. Just as going to the Tacticular Cancer board decrying team management could be deemed as 'preference'..... Context. Context. Context.

- Since i am not so sure the point got across, should have stressed it more; Millions of dollars (and Yen for one company in specific) have been spent in researches aimed at defining and understanding the psychological/behavioural factor behind Online gaming. There have so far (and i have covered them so i would know) been only -three- points that coincide in each and every one of them:

a) The average playing time of an MMORPG player is roughly 6 hours. It goes up to 8 and 9 during weekends/bank holidays/vacations.

b) The average -----paying----- customer is around or above their thirties. (It is what i mentioned in passing in my previous post, ie, they get physically tired easily. Yes, i mean their fingers. You get them tired and unable to compete with the youngsters, they go. They go, you lose your best customer)

c) From the combat systems implemented thus far, the one found to allow for minimum fatigue and maximised focus, in terms of time duration, is tab-targetted combat.
[games that went another route have either failed, or remained niche..niche may be fine for you, or me, but it is not fine for companies, and it is not fine for the average MMORPGer, since niche means less people, and they kinda -do- play to -be- with people. Many people. The more the merrier. It's why they want Massively. People]

My previous points were fine. I can't help it if you don't know how to read and concluded that I was arguing the opposite of what I said.
 

slackerwizrd

Educated
Patron
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
89
Location
Land of Confusion
Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong
guys wow is dead and blizzards in panic mode. at this rate the best case scenario is 4 million subs by the end of the year.

:roll: People have said this for years, and it's still going.


If they don't shit out another expansion soon, 5-6m is a possibility.


They haven't even finished their current expansion. Assuming the rate of loss is constant, this number may be accurate, but that's a invalid assumption. Blizzard will most likely see resubscribers in 5.4, which will then tail off until 6.x is released - if it is.
 

shihonage

Subscribe to my OnlyFans
Patron
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
7,157
Location
location, location
Bubbles In Memoria
All these MMOs are sure niche, but they're going F2P, and WoW is bleeding from a thousand cuts. On June 12th, Rift is going to leave a scar - "what, I can kill 10 kobolds and skin boar hides FOR FREE??"
 

pocahaunted

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
4,017
Location
Pyongyang, Best Korea
I really do hope Blizzard fucking gets it's comeuppance for what they did to Diablo 3, it's not like their insanely long development cycle pumps out anything other than popamole and streamlined bullshit anyway.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
18,075
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
No seriously, now you guys only have to speculate what WoW's upkeep costs are. Then you can predict the exact point when WoW stops being profitable. Predict as exactly as any stock market analyst, I mean ;)
According to Blizzard the upkeep costs around 50 milion a year. They make 1.5 billion a year from subscription fees.

Meaning WoW can drop to roughly 300 000 subscribers and still make a little extra money.
Guise, I suspect when WoW dies, none of us will be around to write about it on the Codex.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
i-zbbqkCg-950x10000.jpg
 

Minttunator

Arcane
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Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
1,649
Location
Estonia
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Wrath
It'll definitely be interesting to see how much they actually dare to step away from the tired old formula. For all the crying MMO gamers (including myself) do about all MMOs being WoW clones, they sure don't follow through when something actually unique is released - i.e. pretty much all the major MMOs that have tried something different in the last 5 years or so have bombed. To be fair, though, there are other reasons for this as well - but I don't really see wolf dick and yeti pelt collecting going anywhere any time soon. :P
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,274
Location
Terra da Garoa
While is not that hard to escape from "Collect 5 X" depending on the game style, it is still extremely hard to avoid it on cookie-cutter fantasy MMOs, and I doubt that Blizzard will dare escape from that...
 

Syl

Cipher
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
744
This was posted in another thread. I don't remember reading it here.
While no one's actually said this was the reason for it's re-tooling, it's speculated that they're changing it up to make it more sandboxy in order to keep up with the trends.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,927
well if i may..:)
am gonna disagree a bit more;
- First of all, in regards to "flailing", you don't "flail" at tab targetted MMOs mate, you just can't..tab target means system needs item hot-locked, or you get the server-client error of "nothing targetted".
(you know where you DO "flail" J1M ? At akshun based mmos, because so the client allows, enforces in fact, or it wouldn't behave as akshun..you may seriously wish to rephrase your previous two posts)

- Fail/decline/sucks/shit is preference. Just as going to the Tacticular Cancer board decrying team management could be deemed as 'preference'..... Context. Context. Context.

- Since i am not so sure the point got across, should have stressed it more; Millions of dollars (and Yen for one company in specific) have been spent in researches aimed at defining and understanding the psychological/behavioural factor behind Online gaming. There have so far (and i have covered them so i would know) been only -three- points that coincide in each and every one of them:

a) The average playing time of an MMORPG player is roughly 6 hours. It goes up to 8 and 9 during weekends/bank holidays/vacations.

b) The average -----paying----- customer is around or above their thirties. (It is what i mentioned in passing in my previous post, ie, they get physically tired easily. Yes, i mean their fingers. You get them tired and unable to compete with the youngsters, they go. They go, you lose your best customer)

c) From the combat systems implemented thus far, the one found to allow for minimum fatigue and maximised focus, in terms of time duration, is tab-targetted combat.
[games that went another route have either failed, or remained niche..niche may be fine for you, or me, but it is not fine for companies, and it is not fine for the average MMORPGer, since niche means less people, and they kinda -do- play to -be- with people. Many people. The more the merrier. It's why they want Massively. People]
Please take your metrics and shove them up your ass, and go back to making facebook games, thanks.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
I too, think it is total bullshit that anyone at SquareEnix conducted any sort of studies into what their player-base wants.

Certainly not ones that cost money.

Those assholes just jizz out whatever game they intend to make and hope for the best.
 

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
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Messages
17,274
Location
Terra da Garoa
Better do that than just follow research data blindly... I'm quite sure that shit like "Use your tablet to call airstrikes!" came from a retarded suit reading a report on how the youth loves multi-tasking....
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,616
Better do that than just follow research data blindly... I'm quite sure that shit like "Use your tablet to call airstrikes!" came from a retarded suit reading a report on how the youth loves multi-tasking....

Yes, sitting people in a room and asking them leading questions is less productive than masturbation, but that isn't the type of study I was talking about.

It would be interesting to take a combat prototype for an action-MMO and perform a study to determine if playtesters will enjoy the game more due to tab targeting. Will they play for longer before becoming bored/fatigued? etc.

Or to design a study aimed at discovering why players want access to sprawling feat trees that provide only the illusion of choice and the very real chance of bad choices. Why does Billy sit in his MMO beta requesting talent trees and promptly look up a build provided by someone else the moment they are added to the game? etc.

What is the optimal cost of useful in-game items to migrate F2P players to paying players? Where is the data that says a F2P game shouldn't offer a 'subscription' that provided a standardized set of pay items to a player each month? (One of the primary reasons I don't ever put money into a F2P game is that all of the items are either pointless pageantry or feel like cheating.) How much more likely is a player to pay for an in-game advantage if it can be hidden from their opponent? (Science can be evil too)
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,927
I too, think it is total bullshit that anyone at SquareEnix conducted any sort of studies into what their player-base wants.
Yeah? And what did they make armed with that knowledge?
Final Fantasy 14
I rest my case.

E: I can't believe someone here is actually arguing that all this fucking "research" and "metrics" actually serve to make better games instead of making better shovelware.
 

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