Game News Time to Conquer the Cold: Wasteland 3 Fig Campaign is Live

[Rev]

Everyone contributing a bit in their spare time (instead of focusing on it) is a sign of a side project. Had Avellone written the entire game (or most of it), instead of two characters, people would have overlooked bad combat like they did with PST.

If I recall correctly, their writers (Avellone included) made their pitch for the story and at the end the one who "won" was Fenstermaker's, although not a single pitch was unanimously loved by the team (I remember something like that coming out in an interview, don't remember whose, though). So, in that case, it's not like MCA was always meant to write just two characters on its spare time or what, although it ended up that way.
But, while I agree that if PoE's writing was near Torment or MotB people would have overlooked any other problem they might have with the game, implying that they didn't care that much of PoE doesn't seem right to me, considering that most of their veterans were working on it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Saying "most of their veterans were working on it" doesn't mean much without specific details because working for a few hours and working for two years are two very different things. I've never heard that story but your version of it doesn't make much sense to me. Avellone was their Chief Creative Officer, meaning the story was his domain and no contest for the best story was needed. Not to mention that a story pitch is one thing, writing dialogues and narrative is another.

 

[Rev]

Saying "most of their veterans were working on it" doesn't mean much without specific details because working for a few hours and working for two years are two very different things. I've never heard that story but your version of it doesn't make much sense to me. Avellone was their Chief Creative Officer, meaning the story was his domain and no contest for the best story was needed. Not to mention that a story pitch is one thing, writing dialogues and narrative is another.

He said multiple times after his departure from Obsidian that his title basically meant nothing in practice and that there was ambiguity in what his tasks and responsibilities were supposed to be, though. Also, I don't know how Obsidian manage its projects but apparently it's not like Avellone could overtake anyone and take the lead just because he was an owner, since he didn't have a big role on any of their game since Alpha Protocol (in which he came in only to save the mess the project had become), and before that KotOR II.

 

[Roguey]

See my sig, Avellone had no interest at all in being a lead writer for a non-expansion Obsidian project.

 

[Fairfax]

Everyone contributing a bit in their spare time (instead of focusing on it) is a sign of a side project. Had Avellone written the entire game (or most of it), instead of two characters, people would have overlooked bad combat like they did with PST.

If I recall correctly, their writers (Avellone included) made their pitch for the story and at the end the one who "won" was Fenstermaker's, although not a single pitch was unanimously loved by the team (I remember something like that coming out in an interview, don't remember whose, though). So, in that case, it's not like MCA was always meant to write just two characters on its spare time or what, although it ended up that way.
But, while I agree that if PoE's writing was near Torment or MotB people would have overlooked any other problem they might have with the game, implying that they didn't care that much of PoE doesn't seem right to me, considering that most of their veterans were working on it.

[It was Fenstermaker's Codex interview]

The whole process of how PoE came to be is still murky. We know the original pitch and the premise for the setting are Sawyer's, and that he threatened to quit when trying to convince Obsidian's partners to do the Kickstarter. But even after the KS had been launched, most of the team was a mystery.
In one of the last updates, they didn't even know if Fenstermaker was going to work on the game at all, and he ended up being the Lead Writer:

RPGCodex
Wise Emperor asks
Is there any confirmation that Eric Fenstermaker will be involved in PE? Obviously it would be cool if yes.

Eric is currently working on another project at Obsidian, but there is a good chance he will move over to Project Eternity when that first project is completed. Until the Kickstarter campaign is over and we know the full scope of the game, the assignment of particular people to it will not be completed.

Not to mention George Ziets as a stretch goal. Remember when most of us thought he was actually going to work on the game?

George is gifted in designing lore, levels, and companions for role-playing games, and Baldur’s Gate 2 is one of his favorite titles. His impact can be felt in Mask of the Betrayer, and the character concepts, story, and his narrative decisions to take a disused section of the Forgotten Realms and use it as a backdrop to weave a fascinating story is testament to his design skills. We’ve given him the rundown of Project Eternity, and he’s eager to help shape the lore, design areas, and bring the characters in the world to life.

Remember when the story was supposed to be a personal one?

the story is ultimately about the player's personal conflict among the larger social and political complexities of the world.

Or when they were promising mod support and mod-friendly files?

Our plan is to release our file-format information and expose as much of the data in the game as possible for you to extend and edit. We traditionally do not "hard-code" numbers so that our designers, and you, have the power to easily change and iterate on RPG data. We also plan on releasing localization tools to let communities around the world create localized versions for languages we are not translating Project Eternity into.

As we get more familiar with Unity during production, we will be extending Project Eternity even more for mod makers. Look forward to announcements in the months ahead as we make further progress and can provide you with more information about tools and mod support.

Bastards.

 

[Aenra]

Have you people ever stopped posting, if only to look back at what you've been writing down? I swear that more and more often as time goes by i find you to be the root of the problem, not the 'evul' industry..
(which between you and me, as tends to happen in markets, said industry only follows the demands of the majority of the clientele, does it not..)

- The person admitting he got less than what he got even decades before (despite all advances and opportunities made available) does not respond when asked what this has to say about him, the willing financial contributor. Or what mentalities such as his entail, long term, for his gaemz (need one draw images, one wonders..)
- The person so (locally) famous for his pearls of wisdom, cold logic, and more recently qualitative indie RPG of his, has zero excuses to give other than a "but they burn 1 mil a month" statement.. why should we care, why is that our fault, why is such a lame, illogical excuse used as a drive for us to actually ..what.. continue to endorse, tangibly, such a flawed way of modus operandi? By not only throwing more money at them, but ultimately moving on to excusing them for it? Results and consequences notwithstanding?
- The persons (to broaden our scope a bit) most "keen" and "knowledgeable" of cRPGs et tut obsessively focusing on story? Dare we focus on that perhaps? You need not have any acquaintance with philosophical works to comprehend how a story has an author, how we call them authors because they have authority, and how authority, when practised, limits by its very nature? And when limited within a setting, premise or narrative, naturally one would think RPing is limited as well? Yet here they are anyway, incensed by it?

/NuCodex

 

[Invictus]

Why all the Pillars stuff here? Different game, different company and different team
The hope here is that Zeits ends uo beign one of the driving forces for this project and not another case of "too many cooks" as with Pillars
Avellone seems to be highly overrated nowadays because the whole "if he had been in charge" seems to be weaker each time
Lets see what he comes up on his own

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Don't really buy the limited development time and funds as the sole reason behind the mediocre quality of some of the big name, nostalgia-driven kickstarters. Some of the best games ever made had very troubled and chaotic development, didn't stop them from shining brightly in the end. I think the main reason is simply the dissonance between (majority of) devs and backers with the former not being nostalgic about/yearning for 90s style games in the slightest, they actually believe that the casual console hiking sims, multiplayer focused games and similar trash are the natural (and satisfactory) evolution of the genre but it's just that they can't compete on that market or are just tired of being in complete subservient position to the publishers. Kickstarter allowed them to target the niche that has no competition, keep the IP and get gullible, nostalgic fools to fund the whole thing, it's simply a meal ticket to them instead of a work of passion and it shows.

Avellone seems to be highly overrated nowadays

No.

 

[Daedalos]

Funded !! wooohoo, very nice. I must admit, the stretch goals are very boring and lackluster, tho. Excited to see how much this will pull in total.

 

[DeepOcean]

I don't think PoE's failures can be linked to Obsidian treating it as a secondary title.

Dude, we are RPG fans, for each of us, there are other 50 casual fags, wake up, we ARE secondary and while Obsidian chase the dream of whoring out for AAA we will always be. Those patches for PoE? See how they are relevant for Tyranny, imagine if Tyranny sells well... how do you think PoE 2 will end up? Imagine if Paradox comes and is willing to fund PoE 2 but keeping the mechanics of Tyranny because that sold more copies... Do you think Obsidian would deny out of design purity or any principle that isn't to pay the bills?

I still see some hope at InXile and Larian but they too... Wasteland 3 will have a bigger budget than Wasteland 2 and the bigger the budget gets and more attentions companies get from casual fags, less important we are. Companies at the level of Obsidian (and I really, really, hope InXile and Larian don't go that route and don't become too big) don't make RPG mechanics because they love it, maybe they are fans too but paying the bills is much more important. If they need, they will throw us under the bus on the first chance, that is just the way things are.

 

[Vault Dweller]

- The person so (locally) famous for his pearls of wisdom, cold logic, and more recently qualitative indie RPG of his, has zero excuses to give other than a "but they burn 1 mil a month" statement.. why should we care, why is that our fault, why is such a lame, illogical excuse used as a drive for us to actually ..what.. continue to endorse, tangibly, such a flawed way of modus operandi? By not only throwing more money at them, but ultimately moving on to excusing them for it? Results and consequences notwithstanding?

Their burn rate isn't an excuse but a hint (or a red flag, if you will) for those who are paying attention. Same as this line: "Feargus: If you'll put a real budget behind it: it can't be $10 million, it needs to be $20 million, $25 million. If you really want to do this, then you need to put a real budget behind it." Then they ask for 1.1 mil on KS and pretend it's enough to make a game. Yes, you shouldn't care but you shouldn't expect a fucking renaissance either.

Obsidian is a business and its employees won't work for free. It's not a hard concept to grasp, is it? Look at it this way, if a veteran developer PMs you and asks for $100 to make an awesome RPG in a week or so, would you hand over the money and consider the matter settled (after all whether or not he can make an awesome RPG for $100 over the weekend isn't your problem) or would you be a bit more cautious?

- The persons (to broaden our scope a bit) most "keen" and "knowledgeable" of cRPGs et tut obsessively focusing on story? Dare we focus on that perhaps?

What else is there, in a BG-like game? Did anyone like PST for its combat? Which Obsidian RPG had a great combat system for that matter?

 

[Rev]

Dude, we are RPG fans, for each of us, there are other 50 casual fags, wake up, we ARE secondary and while Obsidian chase the dream of whoring out for AAA we will always be. Those patches for PoE? See how they are relevant for Tyranny, imagine if Tyranny sells well... how do you think PoE 2 will end up? Imagine if Paradox comes and is willing to fund PoE 2 but keeping the mechanics of Tyranny because that sold more copies... Do you think Obsidian would deny out of design purity or any principle that isn't to pay the bills?

I still see some hope at InXile and Larian but they too... Wasteland 3 will have a bigger budget than Wasteland 2 and the bigger the budget gets and more attentions companies get from casual fags, less important we are. Companies at the level of Obsidian (and I really, really, hope InXile and Larian don't go that route and don't become too big) don't make RPG mechanics because they love it, maybe they are fans too but paying the bills is much more important. If they need, they will throw us under the bus on the first chance, that is just the way things are.

Of course, their ultimate goal is to make games like New Vegas again on a regular basis, maybe even something more ambitious like The Witcher 3. Right now, though, the only rpgs they can make are the like of PoE and Tyranny, smaller budget titles without cutscenes and shiny graphics, and if they fail with these games they will never be able to grow to develop AAA multi-platform rpgs again, so I wouldn't say that PoE and the sequel are so unimportant to them (Tyranny actually seems a secondary project in all regards, and Obsidian won't make big money out of it because Paradox funded its development) as they're their only way of reaching that goal. Also, right now PoE is their only owned IP and they probably made more money out of that than with many of their previous games, despite having sold less copies overall.

As for Larian and inXile, I trust the former because I like Swen's philosophy with D:OS and sequel, and it seems like that is the kind of game they want to make, both now and in the future, not AAA cinematic experience or something like that. Then again, they made action-rpgs in the past and maybe will try again in the future.
I have little faith in inXile, though, because their games up until now were bad (I had high hopes on TToN, but all the last months updates have been terrible). Also, I don't think they have a different goal than Obsidian. Fargo is making turn-based rpgs now, but if he could make the new Witcher, Mass Effect or Fallout I think he definetely would just the same as Feargus. Even now, despite WL2 having sold less copies than both PoE and DOS, he's pushing for multi-platform development on all his titles and now with multiplayer and cinematics for WL3, so it's kinda obvious the direction in which he wants to go. They need their current games to be successful and they're key to their plan of growth, but if all goes well for them they would move more and more toward AAA titles, as they're already doing in fact.

 

[Bubbles]

After exactly 24 hours, the Figstarter has taken in $500,442 in pledges. By comparison, WL2 made 470k on the calendar day of its launch (i.e. in less than 24 hours), Torment made 1,488k and BT4 made 706k.

After 48 hours, they're at 590,633.

And after 72 hours, they're at 625,985. But we're currently in the middle of the big push to the finish line, so it will probably slow down tomorrow.

96 hours: 651,427. If they could keep today's pace, they'd make another 625k before the end of the Figstarter. But it'll likely fall off a bit further.

 

[Aenra]

Obsidian is a business and its employees won't work for free

...
Using strawmans now? And that's painting you kindly, as the only alternative is your actual inability to grasp the ramifications of my previous posts. Your post, your call. Excuse me for not bothering any further.

..(in regard to story).. What else is there, in a BG-like game? Did anyone like PST for its combat? Which Obsidian RPG had a great combat system for that matter?

What people like, in the sense of i assume a majority within a given subject or crowd?, has been proven to be more detrimental than beneficial. And it does kinda explain why the market shifted direction, does it not?
That aside, i do not know what you define as RPing, in your head. But if your definition of it is compatible with strict, compartmentalised and specific, teleological a narrative, chances are you're doing it wrong, lack the grey matter to see or want for deeper, or are altogether uninterested in it, instead focusing on the more 'immediate' joys of a cRPG; which you're of course entirely entitled to. Alas however, neither of the above invalidate my own remarks.

Not the kind of response, in either of the above, that i expected from you tbh

 

[Kev Inkline]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pretentious

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

I'm really not sure I like this cinematic thing, and I am pretty sure I dislike the stupid prole npc they're showing all the time.
Nonetheless, as someone who really liked Wasteland 2, I just backed this one with $110.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Obsidian is a business and its employees won't work for free

...
Using strawmans now? And that's painting you kindly, as the only alternative is your actual inability to grasp the ramifications of my previous posts. Your post, your call. Excuse me for not bothering any further.

It's not a strawman, so I assume we're talking about different things, hence the misunderstanding.

My point was that money matters, that the cost of an RPG is what you have to pay your team plus rent. If you pay nothing, then it costs you nothing to make an RPG, but that's an exception rather than the rule. If you have 20 people living in an expensive city and making 50-80k a year salary (plus the payroll tax, office, other taxes, hardware, admin and accounting), then your costs go through the roof in no time.

It is a fact that Obsidian was on the verge of another round of layoffs, so I assume that whatever they got on KS went straight to plug the holes in their overall budget and pay people what they were owed to keep them from leaving. So just like that the entire budget is gone. Should you care? No. Should you have realized it (it's not rocket science) and adjusted your expectations accordingly? Probably.

That aside, i do not know what you define as RPing, in your head. But if your definition of it is compatible with strict, compartmentalised and specific, teleological a narrative, chances are you're doing it wrong, lack the grey matter to see or want for deeper, or are altogether uninterested in it, instead focusing on the more 'immediate' joys of a cRPG; which you're of course entirely entitled to. Alas however, neither of the above invalidate my own remarks.

Again, you look at it the wrong way. It doesn't matter how I define RPGs and role-playing. What matters is what Obsidian is actually good at. Is it combat or is it writing (setting, story, dialogues, quests, etc)? I'd say it's the latter, so that's what I hoped for because expecting anything else was unwise, to say the least.

 

[Lomer2]

Also Tim Cain ended up doing the stronghold's systems (which was terrible btw)...

I think that stronghold's systems were solid . It had a lot of basic neat features - various rest bonuses based on different buildings, henchmen (some of whom would only reach your stronghold, if you had strong enough security), random attacks (until you dealt with the Master Below), quests to keep your idle followers busy, a prison, a library (where every book you found ended automatically), visitors with bonuses or negative reputation, taxes whose amounts and delivery rate depended on prestige and security, merchants, etc. PoE stronghold had a lot more features than any of the BG2 strongholds (although the latter were many and different for every class, of course). What it lacked was a bit of content such as quests with actual interesting storylines. They corrected this to some extent in the expansions.

 

[Jasede]

I am gonna donate exactly as much as I donated to other amazing RPG hits such as Wasteoftimeland 2 and Pillars of Entropy...
Well, maybe Torment 2: Eclectic Bug-a-loo will be better.

 

[Jasede]

You're right, 4 mil for Obsidian is almost nothing, but they didn't have anything else of note at the time and they put pretty much all their best and most reknown designers, artists and writers working on it (Cain, Sawyer, MCA, Fenstermaker, Menze, McLean, etc.

Their best writer is Avellone who wrote two party members for PoE. I wouldn't call it putting their best writers on it.

What's he doing right now? Divinity something?

 

[Bubbles]

You're right, 4 mil for Obsidian is almost nothing, but they didn't have anything else of note at the time and they put pretty much all their best and most reknown designers, artists and writers working on it (Cain, Sawyer, MCA, Fenstermaker, Menze, McLean, etc.

Their best writer is Avellone who wrote two party members for PoE. I wouldn't call it putting their best writers on it.

What's he doing right now? Divinity something?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prey_(2017_video_game)

 

[Vault Dweller]

A bit of everything:

https://www.vg247.com/2016/06/13/chris-avellone-is-working-on-prey/
http://www.pcgamesn.com/system-shock-kickstarter

 

[Bubbles]

After exactly 24 hours, the Figstarter has taken in $500,442 in pledges. By comparison, WL2 made 470k on the calendar day of its launch (i.e. in less than 24 hours), Torment made 1,488k and BT4 made 706k.

After 48 hours, they're at 590,633.

And after 72 hours, they're at 625,985. But we're currently in the middle of the big push to the finish line, so it will probably slow down tomorrow.

96 hours: 651,427. If they could keep today's pace, they'd make another 625k before the end of the Figstarter. But it'll likely fall off a bit further.

120 hours: 671,052. Still on track for the talking car!

 

[SausageInYourFace]

inXile listened to Codexian complaints that W2 was not whacky enough for the setting and thus presented us a talking car! Ta-daa!

 

[Darkzone]

inXile listened to Codexian complaints that W2 was not whacky enough for the setting and thus presented us a talking car! Ta-daa!

Knight Rider especially K.I.T.T. and David Hasselhoff as Michael Knight were great in the 80s. So in a matter of speaking they are continuing on the course of their 80s themed Franchise.