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This just in: Jeremy Soule Hates Fallout 3

Discussion in 'Computer RPG Discussion' started by Chefe, May 16, 2008.

Page 1 of 3

Chefe Barely Literate

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#1

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I received access to the next latest and greatest Game Informer issue. It was brought to my attention by secret informants that a small interview with the sound man himself was in it.

GI: Thank you for setting down with us, Jeremy. Let's get right down to the point. You have been the composer for Bethesda's previous two hits, The Elder Scrolls Morrowind and Oblivion. Among many other things, both were critically acclaimed for their amazing soundtracks. Recently, Bethesda released several audio clips of Fallout 3's music, composed by Inon Zur. We, the fans, want to know the real reason you are not scoring the music for the upcoming Fallout 3.

JS: Bethesda did approach me for the Fallout 3 project. I have always been a long time fan of Fallout and Fallout 2, so I was more than excited. I contacted Mark Morgan, the original composer of Fallout, for help on the project. We collaborated and really tried to capture the atmosphere of the originals. I put together several demo tracks for the producers over at Bethesda to preview. They didn't like them.

GI: Bethesda didn't like them? They told you this?

JS: Not directly. What Bethesda wanted was a more epic tone, and one that was on par with their past fantasy efforts and recent shooters. I told them that I didn't feel Fallout was compatible with that kind of music. It's not. It's the complete opposite of what they're doing. Apparently, they didn't like this too much. Executive producer Todd Howard said they would think about it and call me back with an answer. I still haven't received that call.

GI: That's amazing. How are you feeling about it?

JS: I am still a little depressed, to tell you the truth. I loved the original Fallout games, and don't quite know what to expect now. I wish them all the luck with Ion Zerg though.

GI: Inon Zur.

JS: Yes. Good luck to them.

GI: We would like to thank legendary composer Jeremy Soule for this glimpse into Fallout 3!

The rest of the magazine is crap, but we have an answer now.
OldSkoolKamikaze Liturgist

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#2

Respect++

Don't put that YT crap back in, it's crashing Flash and it slows down pages to a halt. -Tal
MetalCraze

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#3

what? Soule is not epic enough for Beth now? that's new

btw was it Mark Morgan who made a soundtrack for PS:T?
pkt-zer0 Barely Literate

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#4

Not funny. This, however, is: a series of emails exchanged, supposedly between Jeremy Soule and some random internet dude. Citation follows, edited for readability.

-----------

Yes, he seemingly replies to all his mails all the time....i'm assuming 99.9% of them kiss his ***, since mine, which was mature and not aggressive in the slightest seemed to make him quite rabid! Anyhow, here it is:

Mine:

Martin said:

Hello,

I am emailing this email to be directed at Jeremy Soule for an issue which has cropped up about Fallout 3's music.

Therefore, since its such a generic emailing address i will form this email to Jeremy indicating to his third person as i'm not sure if it goes directly to him or not(probably not).

Secondly, this is not a hate mail or anything of the like, its actually extremely crucial because alot of people are backing up this email and the message it has in it. It has not been official confirmed by Bethesda that Fallout 3's music will be in-fact composed by Jeremy Soule however by the quality of work from the previews it seems like hes at least having a hand in it.

In anycase, i come to you not only as a musician in this email but as a gamer as to voice the following concern, and if Jeremy Soule really care's about the authenticity of this game's series and not only the cash Bethesda can give him for it, he will heed the following: I and the communities of No Mutants Allowed(Fallout Fansite since the first game's release), have been raising an issue about Fallout 3's music from its previews.

We know Bethesda plan not to keep it to the original series gameplay etc and most fans have let this slide since they can probably bear it, however when we discovered the music was being changed, in a direction more a-kin to the music Jeremy Soule creates, we became worried.

Mark Morgan the original creator of Fallout's music focused on ambience and fx in his music. Sound patchs and his own created sounds sequenced and sometimes sequenced through Keyboard chords to create the music. It wasn't epic or boistorous, it was quite minamilistic and the implementation of such a score became a trademark of the Fallout Universe.

Jeremy Soule's music, from Oblivion to Baldur's Gate II has been about Epic Fantasy styled music. It has largely worked with Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights. However in the latter years, many or all fans of the gaming series's Jeremy has had a hand in has had some heavy criticism for his music.

Oblivion for example was(qouting)undynamic and often too repetitive, very boring. For example your "Battle Music" had absolutely no kick, its generally just poor orchestration, nothing really bad with the composition itself.

Most importantly, many people report you can listen to the music by itself, but in a game it doesn't fit well - implementation. Prey's soundstrack was pathetic to many people including myself. Qouting yet again, alot of people found it almost borderline racism and plane laziness to make a soundtrack which yet again has no relation to the game's actual context by shoving in a few Native American Indian sounds. The implementation was dire.

Supreme Commander and Guild Wars suffer from(qouting)reptitive chorus hooks, un-original scoring and yet again bad implementation into the gaming enviroment.

As a musician let me tell you something which should have been obvious from the start. Ok these companies hired Jeremy, paid him, probably maybe even put their two-cents into what they wanted, however it SHOULD be obvious that not ALL game/tv/film music has to have an orchestra in it.

So what makes Jeremy think he can do a Sci-Fi cult classic like Fallout 3? You could cheekily say that its because hes getting paid for it, but to be honest thats what his music is sounding like nowadays - that its all about the money not the quality of work you churn out. Realise this, Fallout is historically an extremely important game.

The last bastion of originality within the gaming industry which has became far too mainstreamed and far too down-trodden. Also lastly here is something i really think you should if anything only care about from this email. As a musician, as someone who cares about their music and the quality of it, you will too Jeremy. Of course in music theres differances of opinions, and you could on the weight of sales or awards say that your music is doing well yes?

However the grim reality is that the common people and users who play and hear your music do not agree in the slightest. The people who do are industry related staff and reviewer critics who attenteded the game's opening party and are basically pals with the company in question you work for.

I have spoke to many people about your music now for many years, keeping myself as a neutral party up until now, and they have all voiced that they aren't happy with what you are creating in the game's industry, a very generic undynamic musical enviroment. People enjoyed soundtracks like God of War 1 and 2 or Shadow of the Colossus, Gothic III's music by Kai Rosenkranz, e.g more dynamic and definitive soundtracks etc

Dont get me wrong. Alot of people thought Jeremy's elder work from Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate II etc was excellent, including myself. However in time, the formula of orchestration Jeremy is using is growing tired, and as a musician, i would feel let down if my legacy is only known for being popular with the industry minority and not with the global majority, its like masking a defeat in victory. Your fans even i've spoke to feel that you've semi-abandoned them in the sense that its probably more important to please the companie's interests with the same formulated orchestra score rather than something new and fresh like you did back with Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale etc.

I dont email Jeremy to insult him, but to tell him that if really cares about the gaming industry and keeping Fallout's music and how his own legacy will be viewed after this, also keeping the atmosphere of the original Fallout series, he would pull out of this project or better yet, get licenship and get permission to use the old Fallout's music.

Its not me who is saying this, but the people of: Gamespot, IGN, No Mutants Allowed, IMDB, LastMusic.Fm, A Badge of Friendship, JeremySoule.com, Musicians and Gamers a-like, All the fans of quality music within' games and the original fans of Fallout since 1997.

Best Regards - Martin Lim, No Mutants Allowed, Gamespot, IGN and all the Fans of JeremySoule.com and Fallout.

Now heres his reply:

Jeremy said:

Doodz, chill outz lolz. That sample is not mine and I am not the composer for this game. Furthermore, I have critical acclaim and many fans and awards.

You are barking up the wrong tree. Go join gang and start with the basics. Probaby the composer you also insulted was inon zur. Goodnight.
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless

For a guy with a BaHons Degree he sure has poor grammer and spelling, oh well.

I replied:

Martin said:

Hello!

The latter email is formulated by many people, not solely myself. The message still remains i think and the factual truth of how people are feeling still evident, and i really believe that your acclaim or wikipedia entries do not save from the real critcism many people feel, but its not like the user's ever get a chance to voice their real opinion to be honest.

You say Inon Zur may be composing(tad worried since his music quality isn't that much better)?

In anycase i'm glad you read what the Fallout/Oblivion fans, myself and many many other people feel about your music, its something actually i've tried to keep very neutral on however have in-time come to realise is something i've found very true. If anything, the past music you produced was excellent, Neverinwinter Nights, Icewind Dale, Baldur's Gate II...though it just hasn't made any sense the latest work you've produced for some newer titles(the implementation side of things).

Yet again i can't solely say this is solely your procative to create this type of music since it could be industry/company influence. In anycase i'm still glad you read my email. I'm sorry if the word has come off angry or over passionate, its basically a compilation of many other people's words, minus the cussing!

Many Best Regards - Martin Lim

End.

p.s Inon Zur is the guy who did the Power Ranger's Movie theme tunes....nuff said...

(...)

Jeremy Replied to me this morning, check out the comedy! :S

Jeremy said:

Ok Legion, if you truly are a professional composer and you have solicited or intend to solicit work in the video game business, then your your criticism could be considered slander along with other violations of tort law. How about you remove your gamespot post along with the others or I sue you now? This would only serve you right for your brash arrogance.
Sent via BlackBerry from Cingular Wireless

My Reply:

Martin said:

Hello!

I must say this is getting quite strange! After reading your site i can remember you said something along the lines of you love getting emails from people be them fans or composers whoever right?

Well, i just happen to be someone who doesn't like your music along with many other people(and those are MANY people!) Who is Legion? Are you giving me Fantasy RPG nicknames now? If so, thats a slightly unoriginal one!

I also dont remember telling you about my "status" as a musician or composer nor my future aims, dare i say your taking this a tad too personally? Jeremy, no offense, your how old? Because the thing is critcism is going to come from all angles, good and bad, and severe ones are going to come to you now and then like they will to me in the future too!

Thing is at least i can say my critcism is contructive, it isn't: "Hahaha! Jeremy is so boring he wears a tenor suit behind a piano and that makes him a boring ****cal person!". Come now, you know thats not happening, and if anything its the opinion of many not just me.

Also, please dont qoute me law Jeremy, especially common law since i know all too well about it. As far as i'm concerned i have stated an opinion. you have set up a system were people can contact you to share their opinions, that was your procative. - Thats why MANY bands or companies dont have such a personal touch, they use like guestbooks so they dont have to deal with people directly incase they get over passionate, or take what they say the wrong way or end up having a long distance relationship with them.

I'm assuming you've never had anyone tell you what a large segment of people think about your music right? I forgot to even say the people on YouTube dont like your music either. I mean, its just life right? Your gonna get a large amount of people who like you, and a large amount who dont.

This is the large amount talking to you, not just me, like i said my opinion was formulated by the many people who share the same distane for your music. If you can't take all types of opinions, especially at your age and with the so called experience you've had, then whats the point mate?

Honestly, i think you didn't read what i actually said to be honest. You read between the lines i was saying it has nothing to do with you as a person Jeremy. However i and many people have said its only your latter compositions which were un-original/boring etc etc, we never said you as a person were the cause for it did we?

Thing is, thinking about it, i shouldn't give you pointers like this but Jeremy, if you want to be professional with your fans or site or whatever, you should at least formulate your emails better, start with a "Hello," and just keep cool ya know? I mean see Bethesda? Tell them you dont like what they are doing in their feedback section and you kno what they reply? - "Thank you for your feedback." and thats it.

Honestly, i think the more you pursure this the more silly your looking! I expected actually someone to get back to me who was going to absolutely convince me that i'm wrong or even just say "Thank you for taking the time to email" and keep cool, hell the guys at Running With Scissors have more cool about taking opinions and they are practically all military hicks man!

Lastly, i dont regret anything i've said nor does the people who were involved. I still think its wonderful your reading my emails(i hope in entirety!) and replying, however your sounding a tad bit silly now trying to threaten me with a almost non-existant law, because in reality, what you going to do? Sue everyone who doesn't like your music? You'll be spending a LOT of time in court! Dont worry, Bethesda and the Industry staff still loves you.

Best Regards - Martin Lim

I think i have sufficient evidence now that thats the kind of guy that is composing the music you all listen too. Pfft all makes sense now eh?

(...)

And the comedy continues!

Jeremy has replied:

Jeremy said:

You are ignorant as much as you are arrogant. That is clear. Now,
I'm considering filing a harassment charge against you as well. You
have claimed to be a composer in your posts and now you're trashing
my business (both to me personally and in your public remarks), I
suggest you get a lawyer. I don't mind criticism from the public or
the press but if you are indeed a composer I have every right to
defend myself from slanderous remarks. Do you want to call my bluff?
Send me your complete contact info and we'll verify that it is
correct and we'll have you served. And while you're at it, send me
all the "cussing" posts you can find. Hence, you represent "many"
which is why I referred to you in jest as Legion.

Gotta love over-paid industry drama queens!

(...This is almost too sad/funny to believe...)

Sadly mate, it is true, i spent nearly the whole of today trying to absorb how surreal this is, how immature this man is, anyhow he has followed up 5 mins ago:

Jeremy said:

Now that we've identified that you have termed me a "racist" we have even more grounds for a lawsuit. As someone who is a member of a multi-ethnic family, your insults are very hurtful to me. I hope you don't mind flying to Seattle as that's where we're going to file. We kindly ask that you provide your accurate contact information so that you can be served with a suit. Otherwise, we'll just get your information through other means and raise the stakes of the suit accordingly as a result of your obstructive behavior.

Its too simular to that of Jack Thompson, its very sad, i really do feel sad for this guy. Besides i have no personal gain in fabricating such things as basically its Jeremy's own procative to go down this route. Its a real shame, very sad, though very funny....shame people like that create our music.

Support the little guy i say, not the idiots.

(...)

My reply:

Martin said:

Hello!

Well Jeremy i think you should do what makes you happier, i'm all for it but i dare say there is nothing to gain from it for you sadly.

I have to say though that i emailed opinions and it was your procative to email me back, i didn't layer emails to you and you never asked me to stop emailing you. You then emailed me back without reading my email, now you only decide to read them properly etc.

I emailed you, saying that those opinions still matter and doesn't change the fact from what was said in those emails. You then out of your own freewill choice, emailed back threatening and insulting. To me, that is harrasment.

You are now continuing some false crusade (similar to that of Oblivion's weird add-on patchs, man...the un-originality continues! ) to think you can somehow track me down and sue me!

You must be best buddies with Jack Thompson right?

Thing is Jeremy, on your site:

"Every day is a challenge. I am not able to take anything for granted when it comes to music. Music is a literal language that is a life study for me. I find that the natural inspiration behind sound starts with the beauty of the human spirit. Everything in music is a reflection of who we are in Creation."

If you truly wrote this, think of what it means. You want to give something to people musically which you believe will reflect to your human being instinct to contribute, give, and share with people. However this means nothing when you cannot accept what humans will give back, i.e their thoughts and opinions.

"I love my fans-especially young composers. I encourage anyone that wishes to contact me to write me here at this website. It may take me a little while to reply to everyone but be assured that I will respond." -Jeremy Soule" Yet again, you said you like hearing from composers and fans yes? What happens if those composers or non-composers dont like your music and they just tell you outright how they feel?

Why do you think Patrick Stewart doesn't email his fans? Or Lionel Ritchie doesn't email them directly?

People are people. No one can say they are invincble of words, and if i was critcised in the same way like you have, i would of course be sad, but i wouldn't get angry Jeremy. Its not the right path.

If your truly care about your musical reflection, the people who listen to your music be them positive or negative critics, and say you dont care about the money you get(which is ALOT i imagine), then you of course care about what the world thinks of you right? So how is the world going to think of you when every little pin prick of negative cricitism will make you want to sue them?

This is a path you have chosen which i can safely say is wrong....maybe not now at present Jeremy, but in time its something which will have a toll on you....you'll think back about it, or you'll always feel insecure about fearing the negative criticism, hiding it under your "awards" and "acclaims".

If anything Jeremy, i forgive you. It really saddens me your like this, that you have come off so immature and your so blind to see what your doing. Its one thing being passionate, but its another being foolishly blind.

Anyhow, back to your crusade. Like i said, do what you feel is best Jeremy. I can tell you though, because i'm a nice person, that you have nothing really to gain from this, that it was your own freewill to pursue this, to cause harrasment, to threaten and subsequently make yourself look more and more foolish, showing up for who you really are.

Lastly, is this Jeremy Soule's 14 year old nephew replying? Cause honestly..."Jeremy"....i really am still shocked at how immature these emails you've sent sound(also side from bad grammer and spelling).

I am a human Jeremy. You are a human too Jeremy. We dont go by job handles. You should know this by now. We dont live on getting angry with one another and sueing. Our human energy is to be invested into what human's give back to us.

I am seriously even beginning to doubt this is really Jeremy Soule since its of such a low mentality and so immature. I simply can't believe a man said those words on his website, then portrays a whole different very negative hypocritical character to another human being.

I sadly have to do what you should have had the sense to do if you were going to take so much criticism(good luck to your future "fans" who email you!). I will have to block you since this is taking up too much space in my email and also the harrasment/threats i'm growing tired of.

I bid you farewell Jeremy, good luck to anything you may produce in the furture, and good luck to the poor souls who have to deal with your almighty wrath and "legal" prowess!

Love - "The Legion"

-----------

Citation ends.

Now, there actually were a few follow-up mails after this one, if I remember correctly. I haven't saved those, and the thread got deleted for no reason shortly afterwards (which is pretty odd in itself).
Brother None On the line for InXile

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#5

Funny.

Let us Languish in Sanitarium - Let's Sail the River of Time
POOPERSCOOPER Erudite

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#6

Sounds like a fake interview.

edit: in respect to the first post. I don't think bethesda are that faggot. IT CANT BE POSSIBLE>

#fallout at gamesurge.net

Cum join the fun!
Fat Dragon Savant

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#7

Mark Morgan said in a recent interview that he hasn't done anything regarding Fallout 3, but Soule says they worked together on a couple soundtracks. Hmmm...Nice try.

btw was it Mark Morgan who made a soundtrack for PS:T?

Yes, he did the entire soundtrack, I think.
Jaime Lannister Barely Literate

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#8

Fat Dragon said:

Mark Morgan said in a recent interview that he hasn't done anything regarding Fallout 3, but Soule says they worked together on a couple soundtracks. Hmmm...Nice try.

I think what was meant was that they sent demos to Bethesda because they hoped Bethesda would hire them to do the soundtrack. Since they were rejected, nothing by Jeremy Soule or Mark Morgan will be in Fallout 3.
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#9

Pics or it didn't happen.

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#10

5/10.

My Homepage - Newly Started
Jaesun Fabulous Moderator

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#11

1/10

HELP US RAISE FUNDS FOR LARIAN'S DIVINITY: ORIGINAL SIN

My Classic video game music channel | Exult Setup Guide | Deus Ex in Win 7 | FRUA Setup Guide
Use the report function for retardo-alerts.
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#12

Fail.

Be Vigilant!
Chefe Barely Literate

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#13

Yea, Morgan also did PST.

Fat Dragon said:

Mark Morgan said in a recent interview that he hasn't done anything regarding Fallout 3, but Soule says they worked together on a couple soundtracks. Hmmm...Nice try.

No, Soul says he consulted Morgan for help on getting the right tone. He then says "I" put together several demo tracks. Since neither Soule nor Morgan have any input on the music of Fallout 3, and it's all Inon, then yes, they haven't done anything regarding Fallout 3.

That second interview posted is the dumbest thing I've seen. If they went to all that work in their own letter, at least try to make Soule sound like someone who's more than 13 years old and spewing all that "my daddy is a lawyer!" crap.

I would get scans, but they wouldn't let me take the magazine home to my scanner.
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#14

Why do you lie?

"Nothing like the taste of sweet decline." Foo Fighters - DOA
Chefe Barely Literate

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#15

Why do you doubt me?
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#16

Because you're a Christian.

..
Chefe Barely Literate

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#17

You're trying to derail this with your mindless babble, but I won't let you derail this with your mindless babble, because it is nothing but mindless babble from a person who can do nothing except express mindless babble.
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#18

Beaner.

..
miles foreman Barely Literate

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#19

pkt-zer0:

I was on the Gamespot/FAQs boards until I got banninated for trolling all the Bethesda fanboys that showed up after the trailer hit. I think Edward R Murrow was there too. He sent me a couple messages after the thread got nuked because I among others were being particularly nasty to Jeremy. Here was the last one that went out to several folks:

Martin said:

Hello!

Sorry for the late reply!

To cut a long story short, some of Jermy SEoule's little "friends" from DrectSng etc who are part of Gamspt reported my thread. The only that happened was i got a one day suspension.

Other than that, Jermy SEoule threatened and threatened to sue me and his friends started making up twisted facts about me which weren't true, much like what the Scientologists do when you mess with them etc.

Anyhow, i ended up blocking Mr SEoule and his friends and really showed i dont care if they take legal action against me since it would be impossible for them since i'm in a different country and they dont know where i live, and if they tried to find out where i live which is private information protected under the data protection act, i would aptly counter-sue etc.

In summary, this is an example of your human rights being abused. I simply expressed an opinion, didn't threaten nor did i slander Mr SEoule, he slandered his own reputation.

It was his own procative to email me back and therefore i wasn't harrasing him, he harrased me as soon as he threatened me by his third email which was before i posted his emails.

To be honest, one human should never have the power over another human's voice and opinions. It says on his site he likes hearing from other composers and his fans, i did just that by mailing me and his reaction was to sue me.

It just goes to show really that his music reflects the kind of person he is, un-original, immature, brash and overly-far far too aggressive for no reason(e.g makes no sense).

Nothing has happened to me I dont blame Gamspt at all for deleting my posts since its a site dedicated to gaming not discussion about Jermy SEoule, however i feel in the end of the day the people should know what kind of people think of you guys who play games, they think your ants they can control your cash flow aswell as your opinion....it was never my intention to on purpously find this out, i thought Jermy SEoule would actually be a very nice mature person, he just happens to not be that at all.

Anyhow, so to answer your question, nope, nothing bad has happened to me! I am planning to post further things about Jermy SEoule out of my own freewill and free speech of opinion about the man now since i have about 6+ emails of evidence from him threatening to "Track me Down" and "Sue me" for falsified allegations, and any legal action taken against me by the man will be aptly counter-sued since ironically he doesn't know his common law it seems, shame

Hope that answered it! I think personally you should spread the word. People like that dont deserve the "power" they have, cause honestly if you look at his website, it doesn't sound like he wrote that biography. So hes a fake in my opinion, and people like that dont deserve a good credit to their name, its like the NME magazine and Pete Docherty, those people dont deserve respect at all.

Best Regards - Martin
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#20

Wonder how long till Martin or Jeremy demands plane tickets?
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#21

I'd love to film that.

Anyway if this is true I find it pretty sad.

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#22

Is this shit some kind of joke? I'm perplexed. :/
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#23

Wait....which part of this do people think is fake?
doctor_kaz Barely Literate

Joined:

May 26, 2006

Posts:

517

Location:

Ohio, USA

May 16, 2008 Stats Ignoring

#24

Is that first post completely fake or is it real?
Gragt Arcane

Joined:

Nov 1, 2007

Posts:

11,124

Location:

Belgium, the land of ferrets

May 16, 2008 Stats Ignoring

#25

That's what I'd like to know as well.

Lutefisk for the Lutefisk God.
Come laugh at my pitiful attempt to translate Le Prince de la Nuit!

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