Thief fan missions and campaigns

[Dev_Anj]

Not as awesome as TDP, but boy do I still love it.

Hey now, just because they're designed differently doesn't mean that one is inferior to the other. Not in my view anyway. I like Thief: Gold essentially as a solid proof of concept that was also much more ambitious and varied. Thief 2 was less ambitious but at the same time, I thought the missions in general were better balanced, they allowed for stealthy approaches better, and the loot wasn't spread out as obnoxiously as some levels in the original.

That being said, it's pretty clear that Thief 2 was a rushed game, especially through the ending levels.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Somewhere here on the Codex is a long post by me as I did a detailed comparison of Thief 1/Gold and Thief 2. I couldn't find it to make the comparison (my guess is that it's in the Thiaf thread, but that monster is 261 pages and I'm not going through all of them) but I do remember the end conclusion:

Thief 2 had the better engine and more content, but Thief 1/Gold wins at being the better game. T1's levels are vastly varied and differ greatly from one to the next. Thief 2's levels are more consistent, almost all being man-made buildings. On the same level is gameplay and enemies; in T1 they're varied and different, in T2 you'll want to scream by the time you run into the 100th mechbeast droning on about the words of Karras...the words of Karras...

Not that I'm saying that T2 is crap, but this was simply me trying to determine which of the two has the edge.

On a related note, I had one of those fiendish ideas for a T2 FM: A Five Nights at Freddy's rendition. It's actually doable: The player can be pinned in place, only allowed to frob nearby items to affect his environment, cameras can be replicated using the Scout Orb mechanics, there's no shortage of creepy enemies, grammophones can relate messages a lá Phone Guy, and the games are actually well-known for being creepy and scary at times.

 

[Morat]

I agree. T1 had the tighter story and more interesting locales/enemies, though T2 still has memorable moments. It's a shame that LGS didn't spice things up more with the better engine on hand, but the FM makers have more than made up for that!

The FNaF FM idea is great. If one of the veteran Dromed minds tried it, I bet it wouldn't even take that long to make. Hell, the real Five Nights at Freddy's only took, what, a month or two to make?

 

[Tzaero]

It's a shame that LGS didn't spice things up more with the better engine on hand.

Reminds me of the Siege Engine which Deep Cover was supposed to use. Shame that there was no screenshots of it.

 

[Dev_Anj]

There are screenshots actually. On TTLG:

http://somethingstrange.com/ttlg/deepcover/

They look pretty good too, for an early 2000's game. Gives me strong James Bond vibes.

 

[JarlFrank]

I used to prefer Thief 2, but now I prefer Thief Gold as an overall package. The story and atmosphere is better, as is the variety. T2 has more "classic" breaking and entering missions though, and Karras is an awesome villain, mostly thanks to Russell's excellent voice acting.
Life of the Party is still one of my favourite OMs, but I don't love the police office and bank missions as much as I used to because that style of mission has been done better by fan missions by now, and years of playing FMs has made me notice flaws more easily. I'd still rank these two among my top Thief OMs, though. But towards the end, T2 really has some meh stuff. Doing Gervasius' manor twice, with too little change to really make it worthwile (they might've ramped up guard activity on the second night, making it necessary to use the secret passageways you found the first time - anything to make it more different. The Seven Sisters is a good example of a campaign that re-uses the same area while making it different enough to not be repetitive). I also don't like Sabotage at Soulforge at all, it's has too many fetch-quest type goals and too much running around through a too large and empty space.

Overall, Thief Gold is the more solid experience with less meh levels and more variety. Yeah, it also has some sections that have by now been done better in FMs (like the city section in Assassins), and not all the missions are excellent (not a big fan of the Old Quarter, and I don't really like the last few missions starting from the one where you wake up in Constantine's basement) but it has some missions that, in my opinion, haven't been topped yet because they're just too good: The Bonehoard and The Sword, especially. Fucking excellent. And both offer the kind of variety that is missing from The Metal Age.

Also, dat plot twist cutscene when you deliver the eye. Holy shit this is how cutscenes should be.

Both are fucking excellent games worth a replay, and both have some excellent and some mediocre missions. Some FMs are even better than either original campaign. Thank the gods for DromEd.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

If I could tinker with the Thief Gold lineup, I would try to make "Thieves's Guild" not quite such a labyrinthine mess, add more magic to "The Mage's Guild" and merge "Escape!" and "Strange Bedfellows" into one mission where Garrett is basically on the run through the city until he runs into the Hammerites and saves them. (Escape! serves no purpose except introduce the player to new enemies.) Not really massive changes, which should give people an idea how good it is already.

For Thief 2, I would first touch up on "Casing the Joint" and "Masks" to make them at least somewhat different. Then I'd take one step further and add a mission in between them. From what little is known of Thief 2 Gold, they had planned an Undead-like mission taking place in an abandoned old Hammerite complex where Garrett would go to try to learn more about Karras. That would be perfect for Thief 2, giving it a supernatural OM, an Undead OM and a scary OM in the vein of "Return to the Cathedral" where the theme would be "Why is this complex abandoned and what has Karras got to do with it?"

 

[Morat]

On the topic of touching up the OM's, can you begin to imagine the sheer awesomeness if all of the OM's were redone from scratch but with NewDark? Keep the same story, enemies, themes, and whatnot, but change the maps themselves to really push the Dark Engine to what it can handle. Imagine one of the OM's being on the scale of something like skacky's "Endless Rain". Now imagine EVERY mission in the T1 and T2 campaign like that. The original games would look almost lame by comparison.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Despite my earlier words of taking a break from Thief...you just can't keep a good taffer down.

I've been having a go at a few FMs in my Thief 2 directory. Some are bad and shall not be mentioned, some are good and may be mentioned later. But right now I want to mention one FM that gripped me last night...just like it did when I first played it some years ago, and somehow managed to forget about.

In this FM, Garrett is being tasked by the Hammerites to throw a spanner in the works of the newly-emerged splinter group known as the Mechanists. This entails making his way over to the Mechanist complex, finding their most recent discoveries, and planting explosives in them, in the double effort of stopping the Mechanists in their tracks and making them look bad at the same time.

I'll say this, this FM is THE front runner for 'FM most adhering to OM standards' I've ever seen. Period. But then again, there's good reason for that. The first one being, this was an entry into a competition that strived to have FMs that adhered to the 'standards' of Thief OMs. AND - this is the winner of that competition, who got a custom title over at TTLG for his efforts.

So - if anyone wants a taste of THE BEST that T2 FMs have to offer, have a go at "Unbidden Guest" made by Melan and don't forget to Brofist his ass when he replies to this. I'm one of the pickiest bastards out there when it comes to readables in the Thief games - and this is the first FM in AGES where I could not find ONE SINGLE PROBLEM with ANY of the readables presented - they make sense, they're reasonable, and they get the point across. I would stick this in the OMs if possible - it's that good.

 

[skacky]

Unbidden Guest is fantastic.

 

[JarlFrank]

Heh, I thought "eh, that mission was merely solid, what are they talking about?", then I noticed that this mission I recently played was called "The Uninvited Guest". Gotta try Unbidden Guest then!

 

[Unkillable Cat]

A couple of years ago we got "Tower in the Forest", a rather large mage mission which I took a look at upon release.

Recently I noticed that the author released an update for the mission, so I downloaded that and tried to make a comparison between the 1.0 and 1.1 versions.

Except the 1.1. version is the broken one. Objects are invisible, arrows stick in the ground and can be retrieved infinitely, the grate at the start can be frobbed open, etc.. Whatever was meant to be fixed, it broke something else good.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Had a look at "The Skygem Connection", one of the rare FMs that pitches Garrett against the Keepers - at least for most of the time. It's also a sequel to a FM called "Damsel in Distress" which I don't remember at all, so storyfags will have to go back a bit before getting the whole picture, though this FM does a good job of explaining the story so far.

Anyway, the FM is very nicely done, neatly divided into two sections, the Keepers and...beyond. The Keeper section is actually quite easy and straightforward, but the other section ramps the difficulty up a couple of gears. A nice touch was the Keeper training yard, which is almost identical to the one at the start of Thief 1. The only real criticism that can be levelled at this FM is the "prologue and exposition" mission at the start, which is meant to play like a cutscene. It's nice but pointless, HOWEVER NewDark allows a sneaky taffer to 'escape' his confinement to the corner and go run around, even in places he wasn't meant to be!

On a related note, since we've had visitors from TTLG stop by and have a word or two about this thread - I found this gem of a quote in the modding forum for an unnamed game, where one user decided he'd sit down and review a couple of mods. (Sound familiar?) Said person didn't seem very happy about this little initiative:

I can't believe it. How dare you criticize ("weaknesses") mods and modders ? Have you done one already ? Throw it in, I will "review" it.
Do you get a degree about criticizing mods and modders' work, you know, the free stuff those guys spend tens, hundreds, or even thousands of hours doing, on their free time, so that people can freely enjoy it? Do you have even the slightest idea of the work involved, so that arrogant people like you can "critisize" it! That really upsets me. Not even a "IMHO" before or after "weaknesses"?
So do everybody a favor, especially youself, so you don't look like an arrogant prick, and do not criticize mods. Give only the pros, encourage modders, but do not dare criticizing modders. And if you think a mod isn't worth it, just don't talk about it.
If you want to help modders, and spend time showing your appreciation, instead of being a jerk, you can seriously hunt bugs and report them, and give positive feedback and reviews, instead of acting like a self proclaimed "specialist".
Goddammit!
Period.

Wait, there's more!

I really think mod "reviews" should concentrate on what is good, and if nothing is good, there should be no review, instead of negative breakings. After all, mods are free. Mods are benevolent shared hard work.

Except I know of at least three Thief modders whom have gotten jobs in the gaming industry based on their 'free mods'. So while mods may be free, they're a still a product.

And why is this French bastard so butthurt? Apparentely he spent "thousands of hours" on a mod that crashed under the most simple of circumstances - and he deflected all of the criticism aimed at him with "my mod is more fun and different than the others". The other posters proceeded to tear him a new one, using mostly common sense and simple reason. Naturally the thread is locked as the moderators finally woke up, but the butthurt is strong in this one.

So yeah, for those that haven't heard this before:

# Your work, once released, is up for scrutiny, criticism and review by anyone. Period.

# What field your work is released in is irrelevant, there are no exceptions.

# Critics can be ignorant, hateful cunts, but they can also be the exact opposite. On top of that, they may also be helpful on occasion. But don't count on them being so.

# At the end of the day the critic is just one person, with one opinion.

 

[Melan]

Unkillable Cat, skacky: Thanks! :D

Unbidden Guest was mostly a though experiment in remaking Unwelcome Guest (the LotP) demo as a big what-if - "what if Thief 2 stayed with TDP's style", and "what if the Mechanists were more like a sensible Hammerite reformation, and not a goofy supervillain group". I have long been fascinated with the changes between the T2 demo and where the final game ended up, and Unbidden Guest is my response to that thinking. If you play the two missions side by side, they are full of parallels - both have a Mechanist facility to infiltrate, an element of industrial espionage, diamond theft, an archer duel, a ladies' salon, dangerous streets, a hidden Keeper safehouse, and a necromancer's tower (which is the part I am most proud of). There is a big gameplay flaw in that there should be a few rooftop-level guards, but that might be a bit too challenging.

It was also a Dromed experiment to make the best of limited mission space and stock resources (the contest rules forbid adding anything, which is why a lot of Dromed vets didn't bother to enter ). I scoured the CRF files for anything I could find, and discovered it was littered with leftover material from not jut TDP, but objects which were never used in any Thief game - metal crates, a gem-encrusted book, that sort of thing. The mission hammers objects into position in ways they should never be used, and sometimes it is very technical in the smallest details. Things like a mirror effect complete with distortion (made of a semi-transparent tea tray, and an actual room built on the other side with intentionally wrong dimensions and a Garrett model), or a large hand crank built using a gear and the haft of a stone hammer. Due to the firm limits, the mission is very inwards-focused, and full of small detail work.

I had some ideas to reimagine other T2 missions, but they never ended up being made. Plus I always considered this FM a bit at odds with my other Dromed projects.

 

[skacky]

It would certainly be interesting to re-imagine T2 with T1's style.

 

[codexian reject]

The lighting is fantastic in those last two shots.

Yeah, bloom and overdone light coronas is exactly what Thief was missing in the lighting department.

 

[JarlFrank]

Had a look at "The Skygem Connection", one of the rare FMs that pitches Garrett against the Keepers - at least for most of the time. It's also a sequel to a FM called "Damsel in Distress" which I don't remember at all, so storyfags will have to go back a bit before getting the whole picture, though this FM does a good job of explaining the story so far.

Oh yeah, I remember the Skygem Connection, it's a good mission and I rated it "good 7/10" in DarkLoader. Enjoyed it quite a bit, and mostly agree with your review.

I didn't like Damsel in Distress all that much though cause it showed some amateurish design in places and just wasn't very enjoyable to me in some places (there are some occasions of too long straight corridors you have to go through, which is the one thing that kills the fun in every FM for me especially when you have to backtrack through them), and I gave it an "okay 4/10" rating.

Shows you how much a mission author can improve with his second mission.
Too bad I didn't find any others by him. Seems he only did these two - shame, he showed some promise.

 

[Morat]

The lighting is fantastic in those last two shots.

Yeah, bloom and overdone light coronas is exactly what Thief was missing in the lighting department.

Exactly! Now all Thief needs is more ninjas, pirates, dragons, space aliens, oompa loompas, and the bow upgrade and it would be damn perfect!

Okay, sure, the lighting effect comes on a bit strong in those pics, I'll admit.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

A couple of more T2 FMs through the wringer:

"Lady Lisa's Harbor" is a little strange, but still fun nonetheless. Garrett must open up a harbor that's on lockdown, which means finding the controls and turning back on the lighthouse. The first objective is easy, while the other one takes the rest of the mission to accomplish. The main area is a small dock complete with warehouses, stores, water processing plant and the large estate of Lady Lisa, but in order to get to the lighthouse a small spelunking journey through some critter-infested caves is called for. This FM is a little old in places, as the docks area only has square angles and cardinal directions, but fortunately that doesn't apply to the cave system beyond. There's lots of little details to keep an eye out for, and the author (BBB) took his time to breathe life into the area, but one thing that did annoy me was the tendency for critters to spawn BEHIND ME at the worst moments, particularly the extra guards that come out of nowhere in Lady Lisa's bedroom.

Overall this is a fun FM that's worth playing, but don't expect anything spectacular from this one.

Then I spent too much time playing "Off to Milhorn Manor", which at first sounds like a taffer's dream come true. Lord Milhorn has corked it and his widow seems to be losing her mind over his passing, so Garrett decides to seize the opportunity and raid their home. The problem is, their home is the size of a small country and has the appropriate level of security. This FM has more guards than "The Mystery Man" (I lost count at 60) which is saying something, and the MacGuffin is locked in a vault that not only requires 3 keys, but most be opened from the other side of a lengthy underground trek through some ruins.

This FM has some serious flaws compared to many other FMs, the biggest one being that it's based on modern-day level design. A large portion of the FM is a corridor - while the player is given the illusion of choice at times, the intention of the author of which path to take is obvious. Throw in a couple of intentional speedbumps (like the ones in the sewer, or the hedge-wall around the manor that is meant to be climbed but CANNOT be mantled) and the player's patience will be sorely tested for what lies ahead, especially after 2 minutes of swimming in a dark sewer pipe.

Once inside the mansion, 2 LARGE floors (and one small one) need to be searched thoroughly to meet the rather steep loot objective and to find the three keys needed for the vault. That involves a LOT of running around identical-looking passageways (good thing this FM has an awesome map) and trying to piece together puzzle hints. As annoying as the ruin trek may sound, that's actually one of the better parts of the FM, as it gives a different experience than the rest. Just keep in mind that it's also a corridor and there is little to no deviation allowed from the path - that includes that narrow tunnel with all the Chaos Spiders.

What did it in for me, however, was the final turn of the knife - in order to be able to summon forth the MacGuffin, a mixture of dragon moss and sulphur must be mixed. While one of the ingredients isn't that hard to find, the other one requires running around trying to find a way into the nearby Alchemist's place - which is ONLY accessible through the chimney, surrounded by slippery roof, and is located almost at the start of the level. And before anyone gets any ideas, the chimney is LOCKED (huh?) and the 'key' is located in the darkest depths of the basement of the Milhorn manor - meaning that one long-ass backtracking trip through most of the map is MANDATORY at a late point to complete this FM.

I'm sorry, but this is not what Thief is about. This FM is doing its darndest to force players through a pre-determined path that's designed to be as long as possible, through an almost endless series of identical-looking hallways and rooms, while punishing ingenuity from clever taffers. I'm aware of the parallels that can be drawn between this FM and the first level of T1/G, but Bafford's never overstayed its welcome or felt intrusive at any point. Milhorn Manor pulls that off at about the 10 minute mark, not to mention that it has issues with NewDark, though not to the point of breaking the mission.

This one is pure 'meh' for me. Loads of good ideas and intentions, let down by bad execution and bloated size.

 

[JarlFrank]

Then I spent too much time playing "Off to Milhorn Manor", which at first sounds like a taffer's dream come true. Lord Milhorn has corked it and his widow seems to be losing her mind over his passing, so Garrett decides to seize the opportunity and raid their home. The problem is, their home is the size of a small country and has the appropriate level of security. This FM has more guards than "The Mystery Man" (I lost count at 60) which is saying something, and the MacGuffin is locked in a vault that not only requires 3 keys, but most be opened from the other side of a lenghty underground trek through some ruins.

Oh, I remember this one. I actually finished it despite losing motivation halfway through (some too lengthy areas, like parts of the sewer that stretch on for too long, and the very samey-looking basement hallways that make you lose your orientation were the parts that I disliked most).
It has some areas that show promise, some single rooms that actually look pretty good and the basic idea of the mission is pretty good, but there are just too many glaring design flaws in it. Most of it was tedious to go through. One of the lowest-rated missions in my list.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Found a good one: "Better off Dead" by Sensut.

This one's a two-parter; the first part involves Mechanists, Undead and a really spiffy castle, while the second half is Pagans, monkeys, half a million trees and squirrels.

This FM departs slightly from the "Thief formula" by making several objectives (like the loot count) OPTIONAL, you don't have to find all the loot and you don't have to find all the secrets, even though almost every secret gets a clue symbol next to it. That leaves taffers with dealing with the story, which is pretty good. There's a castle that the Hammerites owned that's 'mysteriously' gone unoccupied, even though there are large tell-tale blood puddles everywhere. The Mechanists have just discovered it, except Garrett has been hastily dispatched by the Keepers to beat them to the punch, as the place is seemingly cursed AND haunted. That must be a kicker for the real estate price, because this castle is a sight to behold, I spent enough time just marveling at the sights. This place could easily be a tourist attraction. Unfortunately, it won't take much to turn the castle into a hellhole full of Undead, so Garrett must sort things out before tourist season really kicks off.

Sensut uses Pink Floyd riffs and samples here to great effect, but seeing as people expect me to concentrate on the worst aspects of missions, I'll just say it here: That FUCKING LADDER to the clocktower is a deathtrap! SAVE before you use it.

...yes, that's it. That's the worst I can come up with. OK, so some of the readables aren't PERFECT, but they're still pretty damn sensible, like reading Hammerite correspondence via copies made by the scribe.

(OK, I have another nitpick, the Hammerites don't allow women in their ranks, yet they seem perfectly alright with High Priests getting married? Twice? What an odd message to send out to the world.)

Anyway, this FM is a keeper. It never gets too hard, yet it's not too easy, there's plenty of taffing to do, and it's got nice scenery.

 

[Dev_Anj]

... but seeing as people expect me to concentrate on the worst aspects of missions...

Hey, that's not true! I may not post much, but I do read what you write about Thief fan missions every so often, and I like it when you can identify what works well in them. To me, that's an important part of criticism, as that encourages people and can make them consider your thoughts more strongly. It also helps in aiding them in the right direction.

Anyway, keep on thieving on! I'll post more when I feel like it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Three more FMs got a playthrough:

"The Cistern" (the one NOT belonging to Calendra) is the greenest Thief FM you'll ever play. The walls are green, the water is green, the monsters are green, you get the idea. Garrett has heard of an undisturbed tomb deep underground, and wants some of that sweet sweet loot. But first he must travel through various maintenance tunnels full of water.

This one doesn't really play like a Thief mission, but more like a Tomb Raider mod. Even the FM itself admits this, as the Tomb Raider theme starts playing once you reach the tomb itself. There's no objective to return once you've completed the loot objective, so for some taffers the mission will suddenly reach an abrupt end. Most of the obstacles along the way are of the kind you will find in a Tomb Raider game. Find a locked gate, search high and low to find the key, then make the return-trip back to the gate, unlock gate, progress 20 feet and find ANOTHER locked gate. The first puzzle alone (involving swimming through water to throw switches) goes a long way towards killing this FM. But at least the FM looks interesting and has consistent architecture, even though I spotted when the game teleports the player as part of its 'trickery'. Might be worth a playthrough for a bored player or someone who's bored of major taffing.

Then there's "Forgotten Forest 1". This one is a somewhat mixed bag. It starts out simple enough, there's a house, some people lurking about, some stuff to find and steal - but once you climb down the well and find the underground tomb, the FM takes off - but in a completely different direction. The tomb section is amazing, but it will eventually frustrate players trying to get anywhere. There are TONS of little secrets everywhere, the author really knows how to hide his stuff. But then extra objectives start piling on, and soon enough the mission has become a chore to complete - pick up a set of chess pieces and suddenly you have to find both the board AND the missing piece! Read a notice and suddenly you have to lug around a barrel of wine, etc. I was also annoyed by all the invisible walls at the start, making first impressions really sour. Fortunately it picks up from there. I'd say it's a good one, but it's also a challenging one, so keep that in mind.

Finally there's "His Own Medicine". Garrett is hired by an antiques dealer to steal a mask from a noblewoman, except not everything is as it seems. This one has its ups and downs, the start being a great example. There is a locked gate, three wooden beams high up, and one rope arrow, plus an stationary archer that's looking at two of the three wooden beams. Trial and error is really the only way to get past this first obstacle, which I find kinda silly. Things straighten out afterwards, and humour suddenly starts making notable appearances. There's a rat in the kitchen (whatcha gonna do?), some interesting book titles in the library, a very deadly hedge maze and the King of Frogbeasts is also lurking about. Then the mission becomes dead serious with a Hammerite church that feels like it was made by another author. There's nothing wrong with that, except...it feels out of place. Overall "His Own Medicine" is worth a playthrough, but I'm on the fence whether this one can be considered a classic or not.

 

[Darth Slaughter]

That's the man who would taker a break from thief.... In any case:

You can't go wrong with thief...

 

[JarlFrank]

Then there's "Forgotten Forest 1". This one is a somewhat mixed bag. It starts out simple enough, there's a house, some people lurking about, some stuff to find and steal - but once you climb down the well and find the underground tomb, the FM takes off - but in a completely different direction. The tomb section is amazing, but it will eventually frustrate players trying to get anywhere. There are TONS of little secrets everywhere, the author really knows how to hide his stuff. But then extra objectives start piling on, and soon enough the mission has become a chore to complete - pick up a set of chess pieces and suddenly you have to find both the board AND the missing piece! Read a notice and suddenly you have to lug around a barrel of wine, etc. I was also annoyed by all the invisible walls at the start, making first impressions really sour. Fortunately it picks up from there. I'd say it's a good one, but it's also a challenging one, so keep that in mind.

The second mission is even worse with its hidden secrets, I had to check a walkthrough for one of them, and even with the walkthrough and checking the TTLG thread I had to search every corner of the room for at least 5 minutes. And that thing was mandatory to find, ffs. The mission is full of these things! It was fun, but I had to resort to a walkthrough more than once.