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Theseus: Journey to Athens - C&C RPG made in GMS 2

ERYFKRAD

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Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Will the player character wear pants though?
 

vlzvl

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Your artset looks very groovy man :)
Show the battle perspective with those characters to get some serious boost
 

PrettyDeadman

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Not sure if reverse perspective really works with isometric point of view.
In reverse perspective the vanishing point usually corresponds with the position of the viewer (or close enough), and it is used to create a certain impression on the viewer:
65.gif

images

1c6533c4471787220635ce4fc9e3f46b.jpg

400px-Italo-Byzantinischer_Maler_des_13._Jahrhunderts_001.jpg
In you case vanishinng point is WAY below the postition of the viewer, which created bizarre unnatural feeling which is kind offputting.
 
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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I never thought this project would get anywhere but it is looking beautiful. Nice work man.

Thanks, the artist is doing great work. She has finished all the art assets for the first town (Troezen) and is currently working on Epidauros and the surrounding sites. A couple of people are starting on the audio assets now, too, so I'm looking forward to the game getting some sound.

I'm hopeful to get everything done on my end by late August, as I have a break in my work schedule starting from mid-July. That way I can polish the game while I wait for the remaining assets.

I need to make a website for the game, evidently, if only so I can host the images. The links in this thread are broken because I've just been hosting them on temporary upload sites.

Given the progress, I can at least share the final list of locations (not including the CYAO locations and battle scenes):

1. Troezen, 6 distinct spots
- Home
- Market-area at the base of the Acropolis
- Acropolis
- Branching road
- wilderness and a camp
- coast

2. Epidauros, 8 distinct spots
- secret area
- coast
- olive groves
- town centre
- mountain path
- Sanctuary of Asklepios
- Sanctuary of Apollo Maleatas
- Pine forest

3. Conclusion
- Hut in the district of Krommyon, near Korinth.
- Rocky cliff near Megara
- Wrestling ring outside Eleusis
- Tavern in Attica
- Palace in Athens
- I might add Marathon and Gargettos as actual locations rather than CYAO scenes.


Every location has at least one character and a "point of interest". Most have more. You explore these areas to initiate quests, which are handled through CYAO and combat scenes. There was a new, fully functional demo for the first town which I compiled a few weeks ago, but since then I have received a lot of new assets and things have been polished.

You can find almost all these areas in Pausanius' Description of Greece, but a few are from other texts like Plutarch's Lives. A lot of the sites are technically too modern for Theseus, but the myths behind them pre-date Theseus, so I have necessarily included them so that I may properly depict the mythology of Theseus.
 
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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Will the player character wear pants though?
Agesilaus please respond.

Negative. Right now Theseus is wearing a chiton with both shoulders fastened, and I think he has a pair of sandals on (I am not at my computer so I can't confirm the footwear). If player demand is great enough, I will include someone with trousers. I could even make the trousers capturable, and then you can burn them as barbarian clothing not fit for civilized man.
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Edit: going to update walk animation speed and then redo the video, Mastermind pointed out that it's too slow.



Lots of changes and new art assets, see the trailer. Releasing an early access/paid demo on Monday through itch.io, features the first town. Will make a new thread in the regular rpg forum and try to get it on the front page, etc.

Still plan to release this year. Ideally in a month or so, but I don't have any audio assets and the art is still being produced.

Typing this on my phone because I spilt a cup of tea on my laptop and now the keyboard is buggered. Thankfully it's still under accident warranty so I'm sending it away for repairs on Monday. Shouldn't slow things down too much.
 
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Martyr

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Still plan to release this year. Ideally in a month or so, but I don't have any audio assets and the art is still being produced.
whew, this is looking real good! and the music is awesome, reminds me a lot of Arcanum!
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.


I reshot the video. Thanks to suggestions from the people in the general dev thread, it features improved animations and font. I'll leave the old one up, but it will remain unlisted. I'll set the above video to public tomorrow.
 
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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Released the demo publicly: https://antiquity-games.itch.io/theseus-journey-to-athens


202CKO.jpg


Set in classical antiquity, this game features old-school adventure and role-playing mechanics. Your choices will have consequences. The primary goal of this game is to bring the ancient source material to life; if you appreciate classical antiquity and mythology, then this game should fit the bill.

Key Features:
  • Over 20 unique locations to explore, based heavily on classical texts like Pausanias' Guide to Greece.
  • Beautiful modern artwork created by artist Klaudia Jankowska (https://klaudiajankowskaart.myportfolio.com).
  • Detailed choose-your-own-adventure style cut scenes, decorated with historical artwork.
  • Turn-based combat with many different opponents and items. Party
    mechanics are included, but will your noble companions be willing to travel side by side with the wretched ones?
XZOabR.jpg


The ancient sources tell many different tales about Theseus and his journey to Athens. Now, it is your turn to step into Theseus' sandals. What will you seek to achieve, and how will you conduct yourself as you make your way to Athens?
 
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AdolfSatan

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$7 based on a two-minute trailer and the promises of a hitherto unknown developer.

As exited as I am to try it out, there's no way I'm paying for a demo; give it for free, and if it's good I'll purchase the full version on release.
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
$7 based on a two-minute trailer and the promises of a hitherto unknown developer.

As exited as I am to try it out, there's no way I'm paying for a demo; give it for free, and if it's good I'll purchase the full version on release.

I have decided that you are right. I will charge when the game is finished, not when it's a work-in-progress demo that restricts the player to the first town.

The demo is now free!
 
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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.

AdolfSatan

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Tried to save at the bandit camp and got this error:

___________________________________________
############################################################################################
FATAL ERROR in
action number 1
of Step Eventobj_bcursor
for object obj_savegame:

ini_write_string argument 3 incorrect type (array) expecting a String (YYGS)
at gml_Script_sc_save
############################################################################################
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
stack frame is
gml_Script_sc_save (line -1)
gml_Object_obj_savegame_Collision_9f5e539f_5fb4_4a56_9489_c1f93d0f52b8
Gave another try at this of saving. If I do it on the very first screen (home), just as I begin the game, it works. After I leave —no matter where—, every time I save, the game crashes.

Will jump back into the game and come back with the rest of my impressions.
_______
EDIT

Ok, just played it through the end. Nice amount of C&C from what I gather, it'll be nice to see how it affects the adventures further on. I'll be purchasing when you release full version for sure.

Liked the writing style. It's simple, but not poor because of it. The dialogues are quite nice, each character feels like it has its own personality.

Assuming you're hoping for some feedback, here's mine:

Since you made no mention with regards to what is final and not, I'll make the comments accordingly.

Looping picture in the menu screen doesn't look very good. Do you have the permission to use it anyways?

Nothing against Albinoni, but wouldn't Niko Skalkottas be more fitting to the setting?
Also, you sure the track you're using ain't copyrighted or some shit? That's Karajan's version if I'm not mistaken, too recent to be royalty free.

First time I booted the game, music cut off and had no BGM at all; coupled with the lack of background sounds made me wonder if something had fucked up with my audio.
After the second time, music carried on from the main menu into the game, so at least there was something setting the mood.

Response text in green looks awkward against the palette. A similar shade of royal/golden yellow to that of the portraits'd be better, I believe.
 
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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Tried to save at the bandit camp and got this error:

___________________________________________
############################################################################################
FATAL ERROR in
action number 1
of Step Eventobj_bcursor
for object obj_savegame:

ini_write_string argument 3 incorrect type (array) expecting a String (YYGS)
at gml_Script_sc_save
############################################################################################
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
stack frame is
gml_Script_sc_save (line -1)
gml_Object_obj_savegame_Collision_9f5e539f_5fb4_4a56_9489_c1f93d0f52b8
Gave another try at this of saving. If I do it on the very first screen (home), just as I begin the game, it works. After I leave —no matter where—, every time I save, the game crashes.

Will jump back into the game and come back with the rest of my impressions.

Thanks again for catching this; it's fixed now. I deleted the old demo file and uploaded a new version (which reminds me, I need to study up and learn about version-control and efficient patching).

Essentially, the save function was trying to record a variable that related to the turn-based combat system. That variable was not actually vital or necessary, so it was a quick fix once I was able to figure out the cause. It should work fine now (at least, it does on my laptop).


Ok, just played it through the end. Nice amount of C&C from what I gather, it'll be nice to see how it affects the adventures further on. I'll be purchasing when you release full version for sure.

Liked the writing style. It's simple, but not poor because of it. The dialogues are quite nice, each character feels like it has its own personality.

Assuming you're hoping for some feedback, here's mine:

Since you made no mention with regards to what is final and not, I'll make the comments accordingly.

Looping picture in the menu screen doesn't look very good. Do you have the permission to use it anyways?

Nothing against Albinoni, but wouldn't Niko Skalkottas be more fitting to the setting?
Also, you sure the track you're using ain't copyrighted or some shit? That's Karajan's version if I'm not mistaken, too recent to be royalty free.

First time I booted the game, music cut off and had no BGM at all; coupled with the lack of background sounds made me wonder if something had fucked up with my audio.
After the second time, music carried on from the main menu into the game, so at least there was something setting the mood.

Response text in green looks awkward against the palette. A similar shade of royal/golden yellow to that of the portraits'd be better, I believe.

Glad to hear you enjoyed it. The decisions made in the first town do indeed impact what happens later. Every path/ending is rooted in the primary source material to some extent, but some are more canon than others. In terms of the writing style, I feel like I need to include more descriptive text in the overworld dialogue screen. The dialogue for characters outside the demo area is more recent, and generally opens up with one or two lines of descriptive text before you begin talking (for example, when Theseus meets Amphitrite, the dialogue describes her as being "ox-eyed" like in the source material).

I am no longer sure where the looping picture came from; it is a placeholder graphic I collected a long time ago. I essentially gathered together a resource folder of my own photographs from various trips to greece and museums, photographs of books I own with photographs of antiquities, and then some online photos. It doesn't look like I took the photograph, and an online reverse image search showed that it is on pinterest, the MET museum webpage, and some other sites, so I would need to do more research to figure out the original photographer. The person who created the cup is, of course, a lot older.

At any rate, I will be replacing the cup now that I have assets for the main menu and buttons. I received those assets a couple of days ago and implemented them right away. Next step is to test them with my photographs from the Peloponnesos and some action scenes from pottery. I'll either have a scenic shot I took, or a scrolling action scene in the background. Although I have driven around the Peloponnesos, sadly I never stopped in Troezen.

Similarly, the music is a placeholder that plays from the main menu onwards. Your experience is how it should be working for now; I don't have audio assets yet, and the music I used in the youtube video requires a paid license if i want to use it in the game. Now, I am inclined to package that youtube video asset with some other music and then use those assets in the game proper, but I have some loose ends to tie up with some other audio artists before I can commit to anything. In terms of how fitting the current placeholder is, I am woefully ignorant when it comes to music, but I was aiming for something melancholy and unobtrusive. I located the current version by googling for "royalty free" and the track/artist, and the site indicated it was free for use, but if you think it's a licensed version then I will need to double check tomorrow and see if the site is mistaken. There is a lot of royalty-free, attribution-license pieces out there, so I can just replace it with a different recording if need be. Essentially it will be gone at some point, though, because it is a placeholder.

I will play around with the response text, I think you have a point there. The dialogue system pre-dates the creation of those red-figure portrait assets, and they do seem to clash.
 
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Unwanted

YanBG

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Character models look awesome! Is it a recent improvement? Not sure about the houses angle, but their models are pretty. I like that you can enter the house.

1) Splash screen isn't wide but it starts me in fullscreen. Either add more resolutions of the image or windowed mode by default.
2) Is the main menu background a photo? Will you draw a proper one? Ok it will be updated.
3) Same for the music, add something greek. Also it shouldn't be on a loop. While i don't do anything it should stop and have some ambient bird noises etc from time to time.
4) Battle needs huge improvement. I lost to the boars, only one of my 2 characters can attack per turn and it's very slow. You should make it more automated. Maybe after attack remove the walking points from the hero and switch to the next in line then end the turn when they both have no points?
I can't get to the menu during battle(a lot of boars in the farms from the old guy) and there is no information for the enemy units, like hp and name, you should add that.

5) Is there any inventory and other menus?
6) Is there a command to take screenshots?

7) The character keep walking on the same spot if you click on that area. Also i guess there is no waiting/fidget animation yet, because when he stops walking it shows a random frame of the walk animation?
6Fdkavm.jpg


8) Depth sorting issues, the character is on top of the open building too.
ElqDmY8.jpg

FB3EI5c.jpg

9) when i talk with someone and close the dialogue then i can't reopen it unless i get away from them. I keep trying to click on them to open it. Also less important and personal preference maybe but you can remove the dialogue options that are already used, so they won't repeating it. If it's important add a journal menu/notes.

A kinda prefer open world but this town is interesting, you can keep it room based i guess.

Overall it's very promising and you should keep the good work! What about making a kickstarter?

Btw as a fellow GMS user, this reminds me of my game. I put it on itch.io as early access with a price too but then made it free. https://yanbg.itch.io/bogarash
 
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Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
That's some great and detailed feedback, YanBG, thanks!

1) Splash screen isn't wide but it starts me in fullscreen. Either add more resolutions of the image or windowed mode by default.

Good point, I thought the full-size splash screen was a little weird, too. I will probably turn it off altogether.

3) Same for the music, add something greek. Also it shouldn't be on a loop. While i don't do anything it should stop and have some ambient bird noises etc from time to time.

I've been having a tough time putting audio in place; right now it's just a single placeholder track. Over at Itch.io there are a lot of audio people look for opportunities it seems, and they pointed me towards some free/inexpensive audio asset sites.

4) Battle needs huge improvement. I lost to the boars, only one of my 2 characters can attack per turn and it's very slow. You should make it more automated. Maybe after attack remove the walking points from the hero and switch to the next in line then end the turn when they both have no points?
I can't get to the menu during battle(a lot of boars in the farms from the old guy) and there is no information for the enemy units, like hp and name, you should add that.

This is concerning, as I think you're experiencing a bug that I have not noticed yet. When you say that only one of your 2 characters can attack per turn (I'm guessing it's you and Connidas during the hunting battle), do you mean that one of your characters simply can't attack?

What should happen is this: per "round" each character gets one "turn". During that turn, they have 2 action points which they can spend how they like. Either 1 attack and 1 move, or 2 moves. Or, you can hit pass turn (button is at the bottom of the screen, doesn't have a proper asset yet). When everyone has taken their turn, it's a new round. There is a variable which influences turn order.

So, both characters have their own turn, and both should be able to attack once and move once, or move twice. If that's not happening, then something is going wrong. Note that Theseus doesn't have a bow, though; he can only attack in melee (unless you hide and let Connidas get killed by the boars, thereby gaining his magical bow for yourself.

Anyway, I do agree with you that it is annoying to be able to move after an attack. I will remove it. However, it's going to make combat a lot more difficult. I beefed up the enemies, and now I think the only way to defeat the boars and some other opponents is to "kite" them. If I remove the attack-move combo, Theseus will get stomped, so I need to debuff the enemies.

There is actually info for the enemy units that is stored. Right now it just displays the current selected character info in the top left. I will change it so that it displays the info for the character under the mouse. Thanks.


5) Is there any inventory and other menus?

Yes, press "esc" and a menu will come up. This is mentioned in the settings option on the main menu, but I need to make a separate "help" or "manual" page.


6) Is there a command to take screenshots?

No, but print screen should work. When I put the final version on Steam, I assume it will work with the steam shortcut.


7) The character keep walking on the same spot if you click on that area. Also i guess there is no waiting/fidget animation yet, because when he stops walking it shows a random frame of the walk animation?

I didn't even think about an idle animation, I will send a request to the artist to produce one. As for the walking-on-the-spot issue, I need to figure out a solution. Essentially, if you click somewhere the character cannot go, the game is supposed to destroy the flashing orange movement box (thereby ending the movement. However, sometimes it doesn't work.


8) Depth sorting issues, the character is on top of the open building too.

Good catch. There are invisible objects that serve as the real walls (the graphics are just a background image), and evidently I didn't move those objects up high enough on the acropolis screen.

9) Can't open dialogue again

Spacebar should re-open the dialogue, but I think you are on to something. It would be more natural to right click on a character to initiate dialogue. I just need to code it so that the right mouse-button will only open dialogue if Theseus is within x pixels of the character. The "dialogue on touch" or "dialogue on touch & spacebar" had the benefit of being extremely easy to code and ensuring that dialogue did not open unless the cahracter was next to the character.

maybe but you can remove the dialogue options that are already used, so they won't repeating it. If it's important add a journal menu/notes.

That would be tough I think! I have a lot to learn as a programmer.


A kinda prefer open world but this town is interesting, you can keep it room based i guess.

The old version, prior to having an artist on the team, was actually one big map. I forget why I changed it; I think the map was getting too big and it was just easier in terms of work-flow to send the artist requests room-by-room.


Overall it's very promising and you should keep the good work! What about making a kickstarter?

Btw as a fellow GMS user, this reminds me of my game. I put it on itch.io as early access with a price too but then made it free. https://yanbg.itch.io/bogarash

Thanks! I am not planning a kickstarter, because this project is simple enough that I don't need too much money to create it. I almost want to do it so that it generates more clicks and attention, but I am pleased so far with the reception it has received. This relatively simple demo got a few hundreds views on Itch, IndieDB just approved it and so far it has another hundred or more there, and the discussions here and on the Watch have been positive.

I think I remember when you released Bogarash; I didn't buy it at the time, but it looks like a fun title. I will have to download and try it out. Are you still developing it? I was also surprised by the game size; it is a hundred meg less than mine, but I think it looks more complex and no doubt has audio.
 

AdolfSatan

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In terms of the writing style, I feel like I need to include more descriptive text in the overworld dialogue screen.
That'd be nice, as long as you don't push it. Descriptive text in the way FO handled it when clicking on different objects or in the midst of fights could be an interesting feature.

Next step is to test them with my photographs from the Peloponnesos and some action scenes from pottery. I'll either have a scenic shot I took, or a scrolling action scene in the background. Although I have driven around the Peloponnesos, sadly I never stopped in Troezen.
An inconsistent choice of imagery can become a real eye-sore (not to mention it looks utterly careless and amateurish), so careful with that, get feedback from the graphical artists all the way through.
On the same page: I forgot to point it out, but the painting by La Hyre sticks out against all the previous use of engravings for that very same reason, it has nothing to do with what up to that point is presented.

Now, I am inclined to package that youtube video asset with some other music and then use those assets in the game proper, but I have some loose ends to tie up with some other audio artists before I can commit to anything. In terms of how fitting the current placeholder is, I am woefully ignorant when it comes to music, but I was aiming for something melancholy and unobtrusive.
Oh, I mentioned Nikos because his compositions are all firmly rooted in greek music, though come to think of it, most —if not every— recordings will demand some kind of royalty.
I'm with Yan here in any case. You don't need period instruments or that kind of gimmickry, but it'd be nice if the music was composed with some leanings into modality and (what we know and understand as) Ancient Greek music.

I beefed up the enemies, and now I think the only way to defeat the boars and some other opponents is to "kite" them. If I remove the attack-move combo, Theseus will get stomped, so I need to debuff the enemies.
Kiting makes for shit combat, it becomes redundant.
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Next step is to test them with my photographs from the Peloponnesos and some action scenes from pottery. I'll either have a scenic shot I took, or a scrolling action scene in the background. Although I have driven around the Peloponnesos, sadly I never stopped in Troezen.
An inconsistent choice of imagery can become a real eye-sore (not to mention it looks utterly careless and amateurish), so careful with that, get feedback from the graphical artists all the way through.
On the same page: I forgot to point it out, but the painting by La Hyre sticks out against all the previous use of engravings for that very same reason, it has nothing to do with what up to that point is presented.

I never really thought about the overall consistency between the images. I have a huge number of those B&W/Sepia sketches of 19th century Greece, should I just stick solely with them? My plan was to use the colour paintings for the end locations, but if it's too jarring then I will just go pure sketches.

Also, do you prefer the sketches and white text on a black background, or with the textured background and the text in a box? Right now I have it both ways, because I'm not sure which one works best.

Now, I am inclined to package that youtube video asset with some other music and then use those assets in the game proper, but I have some loose ends to tie up with some other audio artists before I can commit to anything. In terms of how fitting the current placeholder is, I am woefully ignorant when it comes to music, but I was aiming for something melancholy and unobtrusive.
Oh, I mentioned Nikos because his compositions are all firmly rooted in greek music, though come to think of it, most —if not every— recordings will demand some kind of royalty.
I'm with Yan here in any case. You don't need period instruments or that kind of gimmickry, but it'd be nice if the music was composed with some leanings into modality and (what we know and understand as) Ancient Greek music.

I found some independent people who are willing to make more music and license it for a reasonable fee per track, so it's not out of reach to just have entirely new music created. They all seem to want to know what it should sound like, though, so I guess I will have to go youtubing around for something that seems acceptable.
 

AdolfSatan

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Perhaps if each picture style is contained within its own "chapter", it might look more coherent, though personally I'd stick just with the sketches. You can only lose time by trying, though.

Textured bg looks great imo.

I can link you some videos and informative texts with regards to the music, though you'll have to wait a bit... probably today's night.
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Perhaps if each picture style is contained within its own "chapter", it might look more coherent, though personally I'd stick just with the sketches. You can only lose time by trying, though.

Textured bg looks great imo.

I can link you some videos and informative texts with regards to the music, though you'll have to wait a bit... probably today's night.

Thanks, I'll go with your advice and stick with sketches. I have plenty of them, easily enough for the whole game.

For the music, the original artists I was talking to just responded, so perhaps the audio problem has ended. When you do have a chance, though, I'd be very interested in hearing what sort of music you'd recommend for a game set in ancient Greece (and China, too, if you have thoughts on that). Future titles will need audio, too, and this has been a big learning experience.
 

AdolfSatan

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Ok, on Ancient Greek music. First of all, it's worth pointing out that all we know is based on conjecture and educated guesses (which holds true for most of ancient music as well). We will never be 100% sure of what it sounded like, but subjectivism will lead us nowhere, so let's take what we know and accept as canon, and head onwards.

It's important to understand that starting on the Ancient Greece, and well into the Renaissance, Music (that is, academic music) was considered a science. Music was the acoustic manifestation of numbers, which is how the nature of the universe was understood:
You had modes (tonoi) which respected relationships believed to be the very reflection of the divine structure that moved the heavens; so, if you played a certain melody in the hypolydian mode, it wasn't because it should sound nice, but because it would lift your humours and help you relieve a pain of the liver.
Whence came all of this? Hell if I know. Take any Medieval treatise —the biggest fanboys ever on sciences from the classical period— on these kind of subjects, and the amount of unfounded bullshit you'll find will be as amusing as it is mind-numbing.

A sharp contrast against modern music, which favours the dramatic and the ability to hold as effortlessly as possible onto the listener's attention. But in turn, anachronistic as it is, due to its very nature, ancient music serves greatly for the purpose of setting an ambiance.

There aren't many, but the do have some original sources. You can even find transcriptions into modern notation here; even a scan of Plutarch's On Music, in case you really want to dig into the subject. Needless to say, none of this material is copyrighted, so anyone could very well take the melodies, reharmonize them to enrich the monodic palette, and make some excellent background music.

On reharmonizing: to make it sound ancient, it'd be good to know that the only intervals they considered consonant where those that kept a (or as nearly as) perfect relationship with the whole. So, octaves, fifths, and fourths, to which every other interval (mostly thirds) were added for the sake of contrast: to bring forth the beauty in the resolution of such perfection.
Now, there's no obligation to take heed of this, but if I were to give advice to a composer, I'd say to stick mostly to either empty or stacked fourths chords, and use triads only to spice up and add emotion where needed. Alternatively, modern popular harmony can work very well when staying outside the boundaries of common cadences (stay diatonic, though!). Satie's oeuvre can make for a great inspirational source, he certainly knew how to strike that feeling of melancholy and mystic awe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kE48Ql0CjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7IKBRqOz8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyBRbbHpno

If you're itching to know what the music of the greek could have sounded like, there's an excellent album by the De Organographia Ensemble. Up to minute 25, they're all greek pieces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHDwvqyqdn8

Well, that's my take on the subject in any case. Take it with a grain of salt, as if it's but the opinion of a single man. It'd be interesting to see where we meet and where we clash iff anyone's got another point of view to share.
Gotta leave for work now, promise to share my thoughts on Chinese music tomorrow.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Developer
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Messages
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Ok, on Ancient Greek music. First of all, it's worth pointing out that all we know is based on conjecture and educated guesses (which holds true for most of ancient music as well). We will never be 100% sure of what it sounded like, but subjectivism will lead us nowhere, so let's take what we know and accept as canon, and head onwards.

It's important to understand that starting on the Ancient Greece, and well into the Renaissance, Music (that is, academic music) was considered a science. Music was the acoustic manifestation of numbers, which is how the nature of the universe was understood:
You had modes (tonoi) which respected relationships believed to be the very reflection of the divine structure that moved the heavens; so, if you played a certain melody in the hypolydian mode, it wasn't because it should sound nice, but because it would lift your humours and help you relieve a pain of the liver.
Whence came all of this? Hell if I know. Take any Medieval treatise —the biggest fanboys ever on sciences from the classical period— on these kind of subjects, and the amount of unfounded bullshit you'll find will be as amusing as it is mind-numbing.

A sharp contrast against modern music, which favours the dramatic and the ability to hold as effortlessly as possible onto the listener's attention. But in turn, anachronistic as it is, due to its very nature, ancient music serves greatly for the purpose of setting an ambiance.

There aren't many, but the do have some original sources. You can even find transcriptions into modern notation here; even a scan of Plutarch's On Music, in case you really want to dig into the subject. Needless to say, none of this material is copyrighted, so anyone could very well take the melodies, reharmonize them to enrich the monodic palette, and make some excellent background music.

On reharmonizing: to make it sound ancient, it'd be good to know that the only intervals they considered consonant where those that kept a (or as nearly as) perfect relationship with the whole. So, octaves, fifths, and fourths, to which every other interval (mostly thirds) were added for the sake of contrast: to bring forth the beauty in the resolution of such perfection.
Now, there's no obligation to take heed of this, but if I were to give advice to a composer, I'd say to stick mostly to either empty or stacked fourths chords, and use triads only to spice up and add emotion where needed. Alternatively, modern popular harmony can work very well when staying outside the boundaries of common cadences (stay diatonic, though!). Satie's oeuvre can make for a great inspirational source, he certainly knew how to strike that feeling of melancholy and mystic awe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kE48Ql0CjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7IKBRqOz8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyBRbbHpno

If you're itching to know what the music of the greek could have sounded like, there's an excellent album by the De Organographia Ensemble. Up to minute 25, they're all greek pieces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHDwvqyqdn8

Well, that's my take on the subject in any case. Take it with a grain of salt, as if it's but the opinion of a single man. It'd be interesting to see where we meet and where we clash iff anyone's got another point of view to share.
Gotta leave for work now, promise to share my thoughts on Chinese music tomorrow.

I read this when you first posted it, and will read it again soon and respond. Work has been hectic and my laptop is still being repaired (I assume it will be shipped back to me in a week or so), but you've given a lot of good advice and info so far that I need to act on.
 

AdolfSatan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
1,871
Ouch, I completely forgot about the Chinese music part. Glad you managed to wrangle some meaning out of that post though; checking it back now, it reads as a rushed mess (what it was, after all).
Promise to deliver a properly written post on the second subject tomorrow.

Still aiming to release next month? Can't wait to play this!
 

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