Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Iznaliu]

but I think the big turning point for Japan abandoning PCs was when the industry moved to Windows standard and Microsoft just went "Well, you guys are on your own" as far as support went.

It's good to know that MS doesn't always get away with this crap.

 

[Covenant]

I'm thinking about picking up my old ambition of completing an Ironman or semi-Ironman run of Wizardry VII. The thing is, I don't like to overdo it with grinding or use cheesy tactics ('Class change until everyone can Hide, then Hide and abuse clouds' is a bit much for my tastes). My last attempt was the following party:

Human Fighter (planning to switch to Samurai)
Gnome Monk (my little murder machine, best guy in my party)
Faerie Thief (aiming for the Ninja meme, obviously)
Mook Valkyrie
Felpurr Ranger
Elf Bishop (probably should have started as a Mage and changed him to Bishop later, in retrospect)

I had some close calls finishing up Orkogre Castle - those fucking spectral ravens - but in the end my party wiped around the level 9 mark as I was trying to clear Munkharama. Turns out there's quite a difference between basic hobo Munks and elite psionic-using critical-kicking Munks. That was on Normal difficulty, I think.

So after wiping I decided to try and salvage my quest and do a semi-Ironman run; rather than restarting on a party wipe, I'd instead reload from the point where I last opened one of those special chests where you get the map pieces from ('Everyone in your party receives 5000 bonus experience points!', those ones), seeing as how they typically come at the end of a major dungeon/quest line.

I ended up putting the game aside not long after that point, but years later I want to take another crack at it. So I'm asking, first, is a pure Ironman run a reasonable goal without cheesy tactics? I can certainly see some potential roadblocks, like the fights with H'Jenn-ra (the roll for 'Is she alone or is she accompanied by a dozen T'Rang Elders' is obviously primed to be the new Lone Wolf-style 'roll 0 and die' bane of my existence. Fuck that heat-seeking falling mast, seriously), or all those fucking treemen protecting the Ratling village, but overall I seem to remember Wizardry 7 as fairly well balanced so maybe it's not too crazy a challenge?

If so, what difficulty level would you guys recommend? I'm not too sure what changing it specifically effects. And would you make any adjustments to the party? Minor adjustments preferably, not 'Don't accept any roll below 18 and start with 4 Valkyries, class-change them all so they have every school of magic by the end of the game', as that just isn't my style. I've also got a terrible memory for which races can/can't use which decent items, so if I'm particularly gimping myself by not making my Ranger an Elf, for example (I remember some kinda decent Elven Bow?) or anything similar then that'd be something I'd really appreciate knowing.

I do have a Bane run in progress (not Ironman, as I'm particularly unspoilered on Bane). It's only up to the point where I BTFO some Sirens and got my water waders, but my party comp feels a bit better and the import advantages might make the differences in a genuine Ironman run. My Bane composition is broadly similar to the Savant one listed above, with the bonus that my Faerie Thief has already evolved into a Ninja. My double Cane of Corpus dream will not be deferred.

So going back to Wiz 6 and importing is a possibility. But I have a tendency to load Bane up, fight a random encounter or two, then spend hours Googling in frustration about why my automap mod never saves maps between play sessions, and I end up not playing it for another month. So it'll be a slow ride to the finish line there.

Or, if I decide to not go for a full Ironman attempt, where's a good compromise? The map piece chests was my best idea, but I'd be interested if people have other opinions on reasonable 'Save points'.

On the one hand, the semi-Ironman option does seem like the one that's less likely to push me into a Falling Down style meltdown, but on the other hand Grimoire just came out, so if there was ever a time for impossible feats it's now.

 

[cvv]

So Grimoire being in its pre-V2 stage I thought I'll run through Wiz7 again. This time I want to try the Mad God mod. Anyone tried it? Seems you can either download a bunch of files and copy them to the game directory or you can run the Cosmic Forge app and "patch" various things that way. Is it the same thing?

Also last time I played I think the Cosmic Forge editor could fix the mana regen while resting speed which is abysmal in the vanilla. Now I can't find it in the newer version anymore. What's up with that?

 

[Grauken]

Cosmic Forge has both lots of patches as well as various editing functions, basically, if you're dedicated enough you could build up a new Wizardry 7-like game from the ground up, change maps, edits items, make new monster, imports graphics, or merely edit some areas and items of the current Wizardry 7 game. So the mod is basically the difference between Wiz7 proper and the modded stuff (via with Cosmic Forge), which you have to copy into your Wiz7 proper install.

The regen fix is under Patches -> Resting (Modification)

 

[cvv]

Cosmic Forge has both lots of patches as well as various editing functions, basically, if you're dedicated enough you could build up a new Wizardry 7-like game from the ground up, change maps, edits items, make new monster, imports graphics, or merely edit some areas and items of the current Wizardry 7 game. So the mod is basically the difference between Wiz7 proper and the modded stuff (via with Cosmic Forge), which you have to copy into your Wiz7 proper install.

The regen fix is under Patches -> Resting (Modification)

There's the Cosmic Forge editor AND also this mad god's Mod for Wizardry 7 (280.2 Kb) on his download page (there's no description or install instructions, I was just wondering what it does).

It says the regen fix under Resting is only for HP now, not for mana.

 

[Grauken]

http://www.angelfire.com/magic2/madgod/W7ModEng.html

- Several new items have been added and few old items have been removed. It is recommended to keep at least one item slot empty for possible items...
- Few new monsters have been added.
- Few new NPCs have been added.
- Few new quests have been implemented.
- Some locations have been modified. Added new areas.
- Features have been added to some existing areas.
- Most monsters are now capable of dropping some loot.


Oh, didn't knew about the mana, as I never used that fix, I like how resting works in the original

 

[Lady_Error]

The thing is, I don't like to overdo it with grinding or use cheesy tactics ('Class change until everyone can Hide, then Hide and abuse clouds' is a bit much for my tastes)

Getting ninjutsu for everyone is not really a cheesy tactic in my opinion.

 

[Covenant]

Tastes vary, naturally.

The Bane run continues - slowly, painfully. Waiting for four groups of 6 Sirens to hurry up and finish screaming me to death so I can reload is making me long for Dark Savant's 'Terminate Game' button, only for me to then remember that I'd never use it in an Ironman game anyway. D.W. Bradley is a cruel mistress.

 

[thekdawg21]

Wizardry 6 through 8, first time- in preparation of V2 of Grimoire

I know you can finish each game with just about anything, but I want to tackle the optional content like Hall of Gorrors in Wiz7. I know little about Wiz 6. Finished 7 and 8.

* I will be playing blind, but I might use a walkthrough to ensure I get all the cool items that import (Cane of Corpus, etc.)
* ONE class change in each game max.
* Don't really like punching and kicking, I like weapons.
* Using most of the Cosmic Forge patches, like Fighters being pretty damn useful.

Male Lizardman Front-Liner Possibly Ninja -> Fighter (I want this guy to be able to backstab and critical hit. He's a sneaky fuck in real life.)
Fem Hobbit ? - > Valkyrie (Ending as the Gadgeteer in Wiz8)
Fem Faerie Bard -> Ninja (All thiefly duties)
Male Mook Mage -> Samurai
Female CASTER ?
Female CASTER ?

Last two party members I would like to be primarily heavy duty casters.

I would just look through guides, but since this is my first true attempt at a 6->8 party, I don't want to be spoiled by accident. Any thoughts my fascist brethren?

 

[cvv]

A few recommendations from the top of my head:
- try make your casters either elves of fairies, they have naturally higher mana regen and you'll damn sure appreciate that, the mana regen is very slow in general and mana replenishing items are super rare
- don't peek in guides too often, some puzzles are pretty tough but most can be figured out if you actually read what NPCs are saying and/or paying attention to other clues; there are a few tho that are super obtuse and require help; iirc you can obtain a certain interesting item by REFUSING to give certain NPC a quest item, yeah
- I'd HIGHLY recommend not using all the overpowered weapons you bring with you when you import your party from W6 to W7, especially if you're a first timer, it'd render the first half of the game a mind numbing slaughterfest; keep the Diamond Ring and the Ring of the Stars on but use only weapons you find in the world of W7

 

[Invictus]

Cosmic Forge has both lots of patches as well as various editing functions, basically, if you're dedicated enough you could build up a new Wizardry 7-like game from the ground up, change maps, edits items, make new monster, imports graphics, or merely edit some areas and items of the current Wizardry 7 game. So the mod is basically the difference between Wiz7 proper and the modded stuff (via with Cosmic Forge), which you have to copy into your Wiz7 proper install.

The regen fix is under Patches -> Resting (Modification)

There's the Cosmic Forge editor AND also this mad god's Mod for Wizardry 7 (280.2 Kb) on his download page (there's no description or install instructions, I was just wondering what it does).

It says the regen fix under Resting is only for HP now, not for mana.

The mod overall was good; it added a couple of new items, more stock in the shops and the faster health regen but it had a couple of "fixes" that really had no place in the game... mainly the removal of the key to old city from the ratkin at the archives. That chest holds the most important Map in the game (which you need to finish the game) and yeah it was kind of cheesing knowing about it and telling him at the start but it really helped a lot to start the game (plus the holy sacrament) at the temple too

 

[thekdawg21]

Nice, thank you. I never knew about the mana regen thing. I'm hoping having those races as my casters will help with the "endlessly rest and fight wandering encounters" part of the game that ended up breaking my Wiz7 playthrough.

 

[cvv]

The mod overall was good; it added a couple of new items, more stock in the shops and the faster health regen but it had a couple of "fixes" that really had no place in the game... mainly the removal of the key to old city from the ratkin at the archives. That chest holds the most important Map in the game (which you need to finish the game) and yeah it was kind of cheesing knowing about it and telling him at the start but it really helped a lot to start the game (plus the holy sacrament) at the temple too

Do you still remember details of the mod? I'm now at Munkharama and there's an area I don't remember and I can't even find in the cluebook. It's a rather open space are with a small supply room in the south, a small piranha pool in the north, a large-ish building in the middle with two broken stairs and a house you can get into through a broken window. There's a chest in the house but if you come closer it disappears.

I suspect it's a new area added by the mod but I don't know if the disappearing chest is a puzzle or just a bug.
P.S. - so it's a visual bug, the chest disappears but you can still click on the lock in the UI and open it. Still don't know what to do with them broken stairs tho.

 

[Darth Roxor]

all those fucking piranhas in the sea of sorrows give so much xp men

 

[Darth Roxor]

lol killed brombadeg in 3 turns (on 2nd try) after shitting up max AC boosts on everyone and summoning godzylli

 

[octavius]

It's like shooting two species of fish in barrel.

 

[Lukifell]

Current ironman expert party is roughly 33% through Wiz7. (Harder than it sounds.) Crushed most of the nastier early fights like Skeleton Lords and 2x Lord of Dark Forest.

I have some concerns, though. All six characters have around 70 @ lvl 12. Is that going to cause problems by mid and late game? How much AoE damage are the bosses doing? I fear being wiped by some boss with ridiculous acid breath.

 

[Lady_Error]

"endlessly rest and fight wandering encounters"

Regarding endless resting, keep in mind that the first rest works much better than he second or third. So it's best to walk around for a while or have another fight before resting again.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Current ironman expert party is roughly 33% through Wiz7. (Harder than it sounds.) Crushed most of the nastier early fights like Skeleton Lords and 2x Lord of Dark Forest.

I have some concerns, though. All six characters have around 70 @ lvl 12. Is that going to cause problems by mid and late game? How much AoE damage are the bosses doing? I fear being wiped by some boss with ridiculous acid breath.

Are you talking about HP? You're probably fine. Insta-kills from enemy ninjas and whatnot is more annoying. Biggest problem will be Dane tower with 20+ mages in a single battle. Keep magic screen up at all times, and hope your own mages go first.

 

[cvv]

"endlessly rest and fight wandering encounters"

Regarding endless resting, keep in mind that the first rest works much better than he second or third. So it's best to walk around for a while or have another fight before resting again.

Plus you're not really meant to recover all mana after each fight if you cast spells left and right. Magic balance is actually pretty great in W7, spells are extremelly powerful but also expensive and with the slow mana regen you're much better to save spell points for tougher encounters instead of blowing trash mobs with expensive fireballs every time.

***

Btw one thing I find super loathsome about magic in Wiz7 is how OP are spells like Blinding Flash or Confusion, especially if cast against you. If you're facing 10+ opponents able to cast those they're just spamming them every round, in which case none of your resistances really matter because every single of your chars WILL be blinded or Insaned within the first two rounds and there's very little you can do about it. Magic Screen doesn't help because it only shortens the duration of the CC effect and counters like Silence or Anti-Magic are pretty unreliable and expensive. So all it does is it encourages save scumming - whenever you encounter 5 groups of CC casters you just reload instead of bothering to stumble blindly and foam at the mouth for 20 minutes.

 

[Lukifell]

Are you talking about HP? You're probably fine. Insta-kills from enemy ninjas and whatnot is more annoying. Biggest problem will be Dane tower with 20+ mages in a single battle. Keep magic screen up at all times, and hope your own mages go first.

Yeah, HP, sorry. Good tip on the Dane Tower, I haven't made it to the upper levels yet and don't remember what they're like. But the five spellcaster groups are indeed horrible. I make sure at least five characters have Silence for that reason.

Plus you're not really meant to recover all mana after each fight if you cast spells left and right. Magic balance is actually pretty great in W7, spells are extremelly powerful but also expensive and with the slow mana regen you're much better to save spell points for tougher encounters instead of blowing trash mobs with expensive fireballs every time.

I agree. Magic balance is great in W7. It discourages mindless spam; you really do have to conserve your spell points as best as you can, and give thought to the most efficient way to use them. Like if you're facing a bunch of monsters with only physical attacks, best to just cast a level 1-2 Spooks + a max Bless if they're tough

Btw one thing I find super loathsome about magic in Wiz7 is how OP are spells like Blinding Flash or Confusion, especially if cast against you. If you're facing 10+ opponents able to cast those they're just spamming them every round, in which case none of your resistances really matter because every single of your chars WILL be blinded or Insaned within the first two rounds and there's very little you can do about it. Magic Screen doesn't help because it only shortens the duration of the CC effect and counters like Silence or Anti-Magic are pretty unreliable and expensive. So all it does is it encourages save scumming - whenever you encounter 5 groups of CC casters you just reload instead of bothering to stumble blindly and foam at the mouth for 20 minutes.

3x Faerie Monk + 3x Faerie Priest/Bishop/Psionic + Gossamer Gowns + Mind Control. Virtually immune to most CC by level 10. (Monk/Ninja for Blinding Flash.)

 

[cvv]

A funny thing - playing the game again after a few years, now at the Rattkin Ruins. I knew you get the Reflextion skill here but forgot the details. I've checked the official clue book and there's no mention of it. So I check some FAQs and whaaa? You're supposed to say "Reflextion" to Blienmeis? Wtf? Were do you get a clue for that?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Can't believe I managed to kill the thing from hell on first try

Dat 6k hp sure took a while to punch through

 

[Grauken]

Now how about the Beast of a Thousand Eyes

 

[Darth Roxor]

if only it was grimwah, i could kill it with 1 hit