The Witcher 3 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

Too bad he somehow manages to escape while you're assassinating Loredo. Always felt that was kind of an ass pull. As it is, it's technically wiser to side with Iorveth since he knows slightly more about the Kingslayer conspiracy, and he delivers you to people who are deeply involved in it. Roache knows nothing and the entire Henselt's camp ordeal is really just a huge sidetrack from your investigation. If the assassins hadn't made a bid for Henselt's life you would have never even found them there.

Can't really agree here. Roache's path is more on-plot for me. You're looking for Letho and Triss in that area, and you're doing Witcher work in the meantime. Also the camp is more low-fantasy, and Henselt and Deathmold are more Witcher style characters. In contrast in Vergen I felt like I was seriously way off the main plot, suddenly doing a freedom fighter war plot and forgetting Letho even exists. I think Roache's path feels way more like a continuous story with Act 1 and through to Act 3.

I agree on Iorveth suddenly escaping off-camera though, that's probably the worst "decision reset" in the series.

I'm not arguing about which option feels more "Witchery". I'm saying that, in terms of actually advancing the investigation of the Kingslayer, it's smarter to tag along with the man (elf) who actually knows something about the Kinglsayer, and who was actually allied with him for a time.

Smarter doesn't necessarily mean more narratively appropriate.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm not arguing about which option feels more "Witchery". I'm saying that, in terms of actually advancing the investigation of the Kingslayer, it's smarter to tag along with the man (elf) who actually knows something about the Kinglsayer, and who was actually allied with him for a time.

Smarter doesn't necessarily mean more narratively appropriate.

I can agree with that. I would just follow it up by saying it's a shame that path then ends up going way off plot and feeling like Lord of the Rings.

 

[Athos]

Too bad he somehow manages to escape while you're assassinating Loredo. Always felt that was kind of an ass pull. As it is, it's technically wiser to side with Iorveth since he knows slightly more about the Kingslayer conspiracy, and he delivers you to people who are deeply involved in it. Roache knows nothing and the entire Henselt's camp ordeal is really just a huge sidetrack from your investigation. If the assassins hadn't made a bid for Henselt's life you would have never even found them there.

Can't really agree here. Roache's path is more on-plot for me. You're looking for Letho and Triss in that area, and you're doing Witcher work in the meantime. Also the camp is more low-fantasy, and Henselt and Deathmold are more Witcher style characters. In contrast in Vergen I felt like I was seriously way off the main plot, suddenly doing a freedom fighter war plot and forgetting Letho even exists. I think Roache's path feels way more like a continuous story with Act 1 and through to Act 3.

I agree on Iorveth suddenly escaping off-camera though, that's probably the worst "decision reset" in the series.

I'm not arguing about which option feels more "Witchery". I'm saying that, in terms of actually advancing the investigation of the Kingslayer, it's smarter to tag along with the man (elf) who actually knows something about the Kinglsayer, and who was actually allied with him for a time.

Smarter doesn't necessarily mean more narratively appropriate.

Also, going with Iorveth, you discover earlier where Triss is and who is behind her disappereance. You start to understand better who Letho is really working for. And freedom-fighting alongside the dwarves is pretty badass. That path in my opinion tries to recreate the same, more "positive" atmosphere of the stories with Borch Three Jackdaws and the merry band of dwarves of Zoltan. It's not out of character for Geralt to have an idealistic side.

 

[sqeecoo]

The Roache path in Henselt's camp feels like this. I'm not sure Iorveth's path does. I just recently played it for the first time, having done Roache's path originally, and I was surprised at just how much it forces you into the freedom fighter role. In Henselt's camp I always felt like a Witcher, removing the curse for pay while looking for Triss and Letho in the wilderness. I never felt like that on Iorveth's path, I felt like I was helping my buddies fight the king.

It's been a while since I've played Iorveth's path, but I broadly agree. Roache's is way more witchery. On the other hand, it didn't feel completely out of place for Geralt to help defend a city his friends were in (in the books, he is willing to compromise his neutrality to defend friends).

You did seem to be forced into being somewhat taken in by Saskia's freedom-fighting rhetoric - but so was I as the player, and I felt it was ok for Geralt. Not fully in line with the books, but a possible development for his character. No reason for Geralt not to change a bit over the course of the story. And Iorveth, as opposed to Roache, had a interesting character arc, slowly changing from a desperate murderer-terrorist into a tortured freedom-fighter with a hopeless crush on a dragon, and somewhat of a real ally/friend. As such, I was genuinely torn at the end, and really wanted to help Iorveth and Saskia as well as Triss.

With Roache, he remains a somewhat incompetent asshole until the end (a great character, but not much of a bro), and when he asked me to help him transfer the girl, a political pawn, to the hands of a different political player in the "interest of Temeria" over saving Triss, there wasn't even a contest between the two options. In general, there are more likeable characters on the Iorveth path, which makes the decisions harder.

And as Athos said, you get better insight into the story with Iorveth.

EDIT: Also, I didn't really mind being temporarily drawn in by a good cause - it makes your powerlessness (despite your competence) and the futility and chaos of getting involved in politics hurt all the more. Getting burned for not being neutral: that's very witchery

 

[Infinitron]

I would say that it's absolutely wrong to state that Roache has no character arc. And not a bro, really?

 

[Athos]

I would say that it's absolutely wrong to state that Roache has no character arc. And not a bro, really?

Paradoxically, I think you can see his friendship better if you go with Iorveth. He helps you infiltrate the Kaedweni camp even if you are not on his side, while if you stay with him he maintains that authoritative attitude of his. The quests in Loc Muinne with him are one of the best bro moments of the game though.

 

[DalekFlay]

Also, going with Iorveth, you discover earlier where Triss is and who is behind her disappereance. You start to understand better who Letho is really working for. And freedom-fighting alongside the dwarves is pretty badass. That path in my opinion tries to recreate the same, more "positive" atmosphere of the stories with Borch Three Jackdaws and the merry band of dwarves of Zoltan. It's not out of character for Geralt to have an idealistic side.

I'm not sure what you mean on the plot stuff. You find out the Nilfgardian's have Triss both ways, and you find out the Lodge was duped by Nilfgard both ways. These revelations might come earlier or later, depending, but they come all the same. The only thing you never discover on the Roache path is that Saskia was the dragon, but that's not really my favorite plot point anyway to be honest.

And it's not really the idealistic thing I dislike about the Vergen path, it's more than you're taking a lot of time off from the main quest and plot to hang out in Vergen waiting to fight in a war that's off-topic.

 

[sqeecoo]

As Athos said, Roache was a bro on my Iorveth playthrough, and I felt bad for not going with him then. But on Roache's path, he dabbles in an incompetent plot in chapter 2, refuses to offer any info or help although you really need it and ask him directly, gets his whole crew killed, goes crazy for vengeance and does not even say thanks for helping, is completely uninterested in saving Triss and gets all butthurt if you don't agree selecting the "rightful" heir to Temeria is more important than your friend being tortured.

But you are right Infinitron, I was exaggerating for effect. He does have a character arc (his decision to go with Radovid and to stop caring about Foltest's murder is very interesting and well done), and is sort of a bro, especially in the beginning. But he's lackluster as an ally. Does he actually HELP with anything you care about after chapter 1? And Iorveth's character arc was way more compelling for me.

My main point was that the final decision was ridiculously easy for me on Roache's path, but hard on Iorveth's

 

[DalekFlay]

As Athos said, Roache was a bro on my Iorveth playthrough, and I felt bad for not going with him then. But on Roache's path, he dabbles in an incompetent plot in chapter 2, refuses to offer any info or help although you really need it and ask him directly, gets his whole crew killed, goes crazy for vengeance and does not even say thanks for helping, is completely uninterested in saving Triss and gets all butthurt if you don't agree selecting the "rightful" heir to Temeria is more important than your friend being tortured.

All of that's true but it's still the better storyline in my opinion, between the companions. Iorveth just overnight changes from civilian-killing terrorist into a love-struck peaceful puppy, and he's largely irrelevant to the main plot as soon as you arrive in Vergen.

 

[Akratus]

I thought Iorveth was handled quite well, really. He falls in love with Saskia because there's never been a better fighter for dwarven/elven rights, but she doesn't respond to him romantically because he is little more than a serial killer, and also because she is a dragon of course. If he gets Roche in your game, he's won against every special forces commander in the north. So, in Act 3, he can't do much more than be an archer and fight for saskia.

 

[Gerrard]

Roche's path was shit. The locations were shit. The character's you meet were shit. Also Roche himself is an annoying faggot.

Fuck you.

 

[DeepOcean]

Roche is a Bro, he got you out of jail and he truly cares about his country on a non-cynical way, his beliefs and methods could be misguided but the king saved his ass while he was young and he feels some gratitude towards him what makes him not to be a complete sociopath like Iorveth that butchers entire villages just because.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Broche is the bro especially when you do all the Blue-Stripes related side quests in act 2, not to mention finale with Henselth and Deathmold getting their well deserved retribution; and you get the opportunity to unite all Northern Kingdoms for the first time too. Only fun part in Vergen was Prince Penis sorry Stanis trial and quests with Zoltan and other bro-dwarves. Also Scoiatel are freeDOOM fighters only for those who didn't read the books where they're clearly shown as duped Terrorists and Nilfgaardian collaborators ala Waffen-SS volunteer units.

 

[DalekFlay]

I thought Iorveth was handled quite well, really. He falls in love with Saskia because there's never been a better fighter for dwarven/elven rights, but she doesn't respond to him romantically because he is little more than a serial killer, and also because she is a dragon of course. If he gets Roche in your game, he's won against every special forces commander in the north. So, in Act 3, he can't do much more than be an archer and fight for saskia.

Whether the plot makes sense or not I don't think it was handled well in the game. You meet Iorveth three or four times in Act 1 and he's a totally insane killer each time. He says things like "I want to kill every human I see." Then suddenly in Act 2 you talk to him and he's like "man all I want is peace with humans!" It's jarring and not well done. The explanation of "he is in love with Saskia and has changed" isn't given time and story to develop, it just happens, and it makes no real sense anyway since he already knew Saskia when you met him in Flotsam. In short it isn't earned.

In contrast when you find out your bro Roache fucked things up for you in Act 2 it makes total sense for his character, and feels more like a "god dammit, should have seen that coming" moment rather than a "what?" moment.

 

[Akratus]

He wanted peace with humans? I didn't quite get that. But then again it's been a long time since I've played the game.

 

[DalekFlay]

He wanted peace with humans? I didn't quite get that. But then again it's been a long time since I've played the game.

Yes, your first chance to dialog with him in Vergen has him suddenly saying things like "the fight has gone on too long" and "I realize now the best I can hope for is a new future of humans and elves side-by-side" and shit like that. This is like 10 gameplay minutes after he says all humans should die in the forest. It's not well done.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Well, another day another moba!

http://thewitcher.com/twba

 

[Rahdulan]

To add insult to injury it's a mobile game. I guess they really need to justify the existence of that new studio in Krakow.

 

[bloodlover]

How the hell do you play a MOBA on a mobile phone?

 

[eremita]

He wanted peace with humans? I didn't quite get that. But then again it's been a long time since I've played the game.

Yes, your first chance to dialog with him in Vergen has him suddenly saying things like "the fight has gone on too long" and "I realize now the best I can hope for is a new future of humans and elves side-by-side" and shit like that. This is like 10 gameplay minutes after he says all humans should die in the forest. It's not well done.

I also played Iorweth's path a long time ago, but IIRC he generally hates humans because they spread fast at the expense of other - longlived - races. Then he hates human culture represented by various northern kingdoms, that are basically the very manifestation of ignorance and intolerance to other races/cultures which humans are quickly outgrowing. But I don't think he hates human race as genetically inferior/without right to exist whatsoever... So when he talked about killing humans in first act, I always concluded he means the Flotsam people (culture, ignorance). When he later said he believes in Saskia, he meant he believes in strong leader who's gonna be a harbinger of new culture and who won't allow oppressions, thus solving the problem of ignorance and intolerance. As you can see, there's not that much change. He just saw an evidence of something he never thought could exist..

Well, at least this is how I always interpreted it, but I noticed I usually try to make things work while others look for contradictions, weaknesses or plot holes. So I guess I might be giving writers too much credit here. If Iorweth explicitly states somewhere something that contradicts what I just said, well then either my attention or my memory sucks. Or both of them.

 

[DalekFlay]

I also played Iorweth's path a long time ago, but IIRC he generally hates humans because they spread fast at the expense of other - longlived - races. Then he hates human culture represented by various northern kingdoms, that are basically the very manifestation of ignorance and intolerance to other races/cultures which humans are quickly outgrowing. But I don't think he hates human race as genetically inferior/without right to exist whatsoever... So when he talked about killing humans in first act, I always concluded he means the Flotsam people (culture, ignorance). When he later said he believes in Saskia, he meant he believes in strong leader who's gonna be harbinger of new culture and who won't allow oppressions, thus solving the problem of ignorance and intolerance.

Well, at least this is how I always interpreted it, but I noticed I usually try to make things work while others look for contradictions, weaknesses or plot holes. So I guess I might be giving writers too much credit here. If Iorweth explicitly states somewhere something that contradicts what I just said, well then either my attention or my memory sucks. Or both of them.

What you said is a fine way to explain his thought process perhaps, but I still think he's a retard. "I kill innocent civilians indiscriminately over here but you humans are better lulz." Though I guess the real world backs up the fact a ton of these retards exist.

 

[eremita]

I also played Iorweth's path a long time ago, but IIRC he generally hates humans because they spread fast at the expense of other - longlived - races. Then he hates human culture represented by various northern kingdoms, that are basically the very manifestation of ignorance and intolerance to other races/cultures which humans are quickly outgrowing. But I don't think he hates human race as genetically inferior/without right to exist whatsoever... So when he talked about killing humans in first act, I always concluded he means the Flotsam people (culture, ignorance). When he later said he believes in Saskia, he meant he believes in strong leader who's gonna be harbinger of new culture and who won't allow oppressions, thus solving the problem of ignorance and intolerance.

Well, at least this is how I always interpreted it, but I noticed I usually try to make things work while others look for contradictions, weaknesses or plot holes. So I guess I might be giving writers too much credit here. If Iorweth explicitly states somewhere something that contradicts what I just said, well then either my attention or my memory sucks. Or both of them.

What you said is a fine way to explain his thought process perhaps, but I still think he's a retard. "I kill innocent civilians indiscriminately over here but you humans are better lulz." Though I guess the real world backs up the fact a ton of these retards exist.

Well, for him they're already "tainted". They're exactly the kind of humans he hates. Afterall, he's still bitter and ruthless killer. He believes in idea, but he still hates "these" humans for what they are. IIRC he even threats to kill some of the peasants in Vergen, right?

BTW,

 

[MicoSelva]

LoL

To add insult to injury it's a mobile game. I guess they really need to justify the existence of that new studio in Krakow.

It's not even developed by CDP, I think.

in collaboration with the developers at Fuero Games

Yup.

 

[DalekFlay]

Well, for him they're already "tainted". They're exactly the kind of humans he hates. Afterall, he's still bitter and ruthless killer. He believes in idea, but he still hates "these" humans for what they are. IIRC he even threats to kill some of the peasants in Vergen, right?

How humans were treated in Vergen is really something they seemed to want to touch on but never did, in my experience. The humans are all sequestered in small areas of the town and they chat about things like "merchant rights" and whatnot, but it's never really addressed in the story or dialog. Which is a shame, because that branch is so idealistic and could have used some more moral grey.

 

[odrzut]

How humans were treated in Vergen is really something they seemed to want to touch on but never did, in my experience. The humans are all sequestered in small areas of the town and they chat about things like "merchant rights" and whatnot, but it's never really addressed in the story or dialog. Which is a shame, because that branch is so idealistic and could have used some more moral grey.

Also the way the elves near the entrance treat Witcher (as a Dhoine = human) when he first comes to Vergen. It's obvious not only human are racists (speciest?). Only dwarves and Saskia are shown as mostly good. Elves are generally bastards as well.