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The Witcher 1 Thread

Bastion

Educated
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
52
The big plot twist was a little bit too obvious
It's so obvious that it shouldn't be even called a twist.

that Geralt was suffering from amnesia in Witcher 1
I am suffering from amnesia since
I'd chosen Shani instead of Triss and Scoia'tael instead of the Order and somehow I woke up next to Triss in the royal tent.
 

Bastion

Educated
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
52
You know, the druid way. Support weaker, let them go from strength to strength, change the side again to keep the balance. Someone has to keep the scourge spread equally.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
I just "beat" the Beast boss fight... I've never felt so empty in my life.

1) I play in Hard.
2) Abigail died... but then again, she didn't. She just fainted. That's probably nail number 1.
3) I had to resort to cheating to win, hiding behind a small place of sorts. That's nail number 2.
4) And finally, I had to resort to that sign that knocks down opponents and is basically a one-hit kill ticket. That's nail number 3.

I mean, I know points 2 and 4 are basically the rules of the game... But the whole fight felt like such bullshit.

1) I had to drink potions IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIGHT, as the dogs kept biting at my ass, when RIGHT BEFORE IT you get a cutscene of Geralt and Abigail walking towards what's an inevitable battle. Couldn't the developers have, you know, given me control of Geralt at that point and prepare to the figh taccordingly?
2) If I saved at the beginning of the fight, reloading after dying put me at a disadvantage since the dogs were already chewing my ass. So I kept staring at the fucking cutscene before that fight (I skipped it, of course) every time I died and reloaded (which was over 15 times).

These two things basically forced me to "cheat" (or "use the mechanics", as some say) this bullshit fight. It's boring, it's shit, and even if I did it right it would still feel unsatisfactory, given Abigail doesn't really die.

Anyhow, I'm enjoying the game thus far. My only two complaints are this shit fight and the in-your-face "you made a choice" dialogue on the bridge outside of the city.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,756
That's remarkably similar to my experience with that same fight in my first and only playthrough (hampered by my thinking that Abigail could die in combat and I needed to save her). The game does improve considerably in Chapter 2, now that you're in the city rather than the outskirts. Be sure to pick up the Igni sign, if you didn't find it already in Chapter 1.
 
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oldmanpaco

Master of Siestas
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
13,609
Location
Winter
Its a fight like many others in RPGs. If you go in blind you can get really steamrolled. Drink some potions use some oils and its OK.
 

1451

Seeker
In My Safe Space
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
1,368
Badly designed boss fights has become a staple for cdprojekt. Like piranha bytes inability to make end game content, other than filling areas with orcs and or lizardmen.
Just you wait until you face the qte bosses of witcher 2. Made me want to smash all keyboards in the vicinity.
 

naossano

Cipher
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,232
Location
Marseilles, France
Their notion of difficulty is sometime a bit scary.
Putting cutscene/loading screen right before a fight, having your character already agonising before the screen had finished loading isn't difficulty. It is the dev being petty, mean and unfair.
It isn't a challenge, it is a backstab.
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
91
Badly designed boss fights has become a staple for cdprojekt. Like piranha bytes inability to make end game content, other than filling areas with orcs and or lizardmen.
Just you wait until you face the qte bosses of witcher 2. Made me want to smash all keyboards in the vicinity.
There's an option to turn them off (or severy tone them down in some instances) for boss fights.
 

Carrion

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
3,648
Location
Lost in Necropolis
Having to go through a cutscene or a long piece of dialogue before a boss fight sucks, but it's not exactly something exclusive to the Witcher games. I guess putting an autosave just after the cutscene ends is too hard for developers.

For me the biggest problem with the Beast fight is the fact that it's usually over in about two seconds, and that preparation doesn't really play any part in it. You cast Aard and you win regardless of the difficulty setting.
 

Toffeli

Atomkrieg, ja bitte
Patron
Joined
Feb 24, 2011
Messages
1,553
Location
Nordic Mongolia
Wasteland 2
Badly designed boss fights has become a staple for cdprojekt. Like piranha bytes inability to make end game content, other than filling areas with orcs and or lizardmen.
Just you wait until you face the qte bosses of witcher 2. Made me want to smash all keyboards in the vicinity.
There's an option to turn them off (or severy tone them down in some instances) for boss fights.
Yes, if you turn the off I think there's one point only where you have to do it.
End of the Kayran fight I think, after killing enough tentacles
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
That's remarkably similar to my experience with that same fight in my first and only playthrough (hampered by my thinking that Abigail could die in combat and I needed to save her). The game does improve considerably in Chapter 2, now that you're in the city rather than the outskirts. Be sure to pick up the Igni sign, if you didn't find it already in Chapter 1.

Exactly. I mean, ever since I started playing more traditional RPGs, I switched my mentality from "GOT TO SAVE EVERYONE" to "if they die, they die". I guess I expected too much from the game, believing saving Abigail was a priority, when it was nothing but a gimmick.

still taped that, tho

Their notion of difficulty is sometime a bit scary.
Putting cutscene/loading screen right before a fight, having your character already agonising before the screen had finished loading isn't difficulty. It is the dev being petty, mean and unfair.
It isn't a challenge, it is a backstab.

Agree. I would understand it if the cutscene caught me by surprise, like the Beast suddenly appearing to wreck havok among the torch wielding peasants. But it's just Geralt... calmly walking down the road without preparing for the fight.

Badly designed boss fights has become a staple for cdprojekt. Like piranha bytes inability to make end game content, other than filling areas with orcs and or lizardmen.
Just you wait until you face the qte bosses of witcher 2. Made me want to smash all keyboards in the vicinity.

I liked God of War's cinematic fights (the only reason I like QTE events), it feels more climactic than my character spamming silly attacks over and over again. As long as they don't feel too stupid, I'm okay with them.

My favorite "boss" fights, however, are Shadow of the Collossus'. Really made bosses feel special, in a much more "figure it out" way than God of War's painfully obvious "click O to beat the fucker".

Having to go through a cutscene or a long piece of dialogue before a boss fight sucks, but it's not exactly something exclusive to the Witcher games. I guess putting an autosave just after the cutscene ends is too hard for developers.

For me the biggest problem with the Beast fight is the fact that it's usually over in about two seconds, and that preparation doesn't really play any part in it. You cast Aard and you win regardless of the difficulty setting.

Exactly. In the end, I was like "why restart the fight if it's going to be shit anyways", and called it a day.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,103
The Witcher is kind of unusual for doing everything in its power as a game to make the player feel absolutely helpless. You are just basically a puppet, completely controlled by the devs, and I find it strange that more people don't have a problem with it when discussing the game. This is evident in every aspect of The Witcher's design, from the way many cutscenes plunge you into difficult combat, right into the middle of a bunch of hostiles, to the way there are often many long (looooong) cutscenes before difficult fights without an easy way to save beforehand (sometimes spam-clicking quick-save works), to the way many interactions only make sense if you talk to the people in the order the devs intended, to the way most maps, while looking "open" are actually tight corridors with fences/trees blocking you from most of the map, to the way you spend half the game in either cutscenes or loading screens, to the way the way dialogue is structured with NPCs often giving you information that you are neither entitled to nor understand fully, so you end up running after the game as it plays itself.

Don't get me wrong, there are things to like about it, for sure, but PS:T gets a lot of flak from certain people here for being more of a book than a game, but for me, PS:T is a LOT more about gameplay than The Witcher. Playing the latter, I often smirked to myself, here I am playing Cutscene: The Game.

And to the people a couple of pages back saying The Witcher is a lot like Gothic, :dead:. These two games are nothing alike aside from some superficial similarities, such as over the shoulder 3rd person view or coming from a European company. The only thing they have in common beyond that is having decent NPC schedules. But fundamentally, they are completely different. Gothic games are all about gameplay, with the story/dialogue being pretty bare-bones, just good enough to give gameplay context and provide incentive to do things, but nothing beyond that. Were there any truly memorable characters or storylines in Gothic or Gothic 2? I don't think so. But the gameplay was amazing. You had your open world sandbox, check, great melee combat, check, great exploration, check, fun character development, check.

The Witcher is the exact opposite. It had some great writing, and was full of memorable characters and storylines, but had absolute horseshit for gameplay. Shit combat, shit exploration, shit character development. Narrative driven world structure with only small parts of the world available at any time, and even those constrained by ever-present fences, quests with the game telling you EVERYTHING you had to do to the tiniest detail with a couple of exceptions and then tracking/compassing it for you as well.
 

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,473
Well said. But Witcher 1 isn't over the shoulder, its an option, but its an isometric game at heart and best played like that. So even less similar to Gothic.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
The Witcher is kind of unusual for doing everything in its power as a game to make the player feel absolutely helpless. You are just basically a puppet, completely controlled by the devs, and I find it strange that more people don't have a problem with it when discussing the game. This is evident in every aspect of The Witcher's design, from the way many cutscenes plunge you into difficult combat, right into the middle of a bunch of hostiles, to the way there are often many long (looooong) cutscenes before difficult fights without an easy way to save beforehand (sometimes spam-clicking quick-save works), to the way many interactions only make sense if you talk to the people in the order the devs intended, to the way most maps, while looking "open" are actually tight corridors with fences/trees blocking you from most of the map, to the way you spend half the game in either cutscenes or loading screens, to the way the way dialogue is structured with NPCs often giving you information that you are neither entitled to nor understand fully, so you end up running after the game as it plays itself.

So far I find this all to be true. Especially the bolded part.

It's funny, but Planescape: Torment made much more sense to me in the way it has unfolded so far (I'm in the Outlands atm), and for the most part I managed to understand everything that was going on and why I was doing everything I was doing. In other words, I was actively trying to solve the mystery of my past.

In The Witcher, I find myself completing errands for who knows what purpose, only for Geralt to say "now that I've done this I can do that", and I'm left wondering "but why?". Maybe it's because I'm extremely used to FNV and its static characters, whereas in this game I like looking at the NPC's animations and the things that are happening behind their back (like people walking or talking), or maybe I'm just too dumb.

Anyhow, I really appreciate how immersive this game feels. One thing I noticed today, besides the dialogue between NPCs and the animations, was how "realistic" the guards felt when it came to their lines. None of that "patrolling the Mojave makes you feel like a nuclear winter" shit. It was at night, and this guard passes right by me and says "I'm so sleepy". It felt like something a guard would say, something that I would say if I'm bored, unlike "hey you stranger listen to what I have to say even though I don't know you".

A small thing, but a fresh change (ironic given it came before FNV) from guards that try their hardest to let you know you are special.
 

Morkar Left

Guest
In The Witcher, I find myself completing errands for who knows what purpose, only for Geralt to say "now that I've done this I can do that", and I'm left wondering "but why?".

Sounds pretty much like Geralt in the novels.
 

pippin

Guest
In fact, you could say CDPR made him a lot cooler than he really is.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,103
It's funny, but Planescape: Torment made much more sense to me in the way it has unfolded so far (I'm in the Outlands atm), and for the most part I managed to understand everything that was going on and why I was doing everything I was doing. In other words, I was actively trying to solve the mystery of my past.

In The Witcher, I find myself completing errands for who knows what purpose, only for Geralt to say "now that I've done this I can do that", and I'm left wondering "but why?". Maybe it's because I'm extremely used to FNV and its static characters, whereas in this game I like looking at the NPC's animations and the things that are happening behind their back (like people walking or talking), or maybe I'm just too dumb.

You are not too dumb (at least in the context of this thread, I have seen your opinions in the Gothic thread and :negative:). The Witcher definitely has that feeling where you are running around like an errand boy and are often completely confused about what's going in. This is mostly due to the fact that it might be the only RPG ever that has at least twice as much relevant information in the Quest Journal as in the actual cutscene conversations. A typical Witcher encounter goes something like this:

Geralt: Sooo, I searched through the Vizima sewers and found this Iguana amulet.
Triss: Let me examine it with my super-magical powers, but only after, well, you know...
Geralt: Oh yeah....
<Loading Screen, followed by Geralt getting another sex card, followed by another loading screen>
Triss: Ok, I have examined the amulet and it seems like it has some Niflgardian magical dust residue on it. That seems rather odd... Can you please look into this, Geralt?
<Cut-scene ends, you get a new Quest notification, and go into the quest journal>

Quest description in the jounal: The Iguana amulet was created by the Niflgardian vampire-mage named Potato Pete whom Triss Merigold has tracked to a deserted house in the Trade District of Vizima. I must go there and obtain a written confession from him which Triss can use to expose the Secret Cult of the Pigshead Pigeon in the ruins of ancient Kaer Krakow.

That's a bit of an exaggeration, but not by that much, because you do get a lot more information in the diary quite often, and this produces this weird effect of running after the game rather than discovering stuff on your own as in more "normal" RPGs. Also, if you haven't done everything in a very specific way, you will often get quests and pieces of information coming from nowhere and reinforcing the feeling of disjointedness.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
That's a bit of an exaggeration, but not by that much, because you do get a lot more information in the diary quite often, and this produces this weird effect of running after the game rather than discovering stuff on your own as in more "normal" RPGs. Also, if you haven't done everything in a very specific way, you will often get quests and pieces of information coming from nowhere and reinforcing the feeling of disjointedness.

Nah, that was spot on. I'm not complaining, I actually love detailed journals, and the 20 hours or so (no counter so can't say) of PS:T has really spoiled me with the word count, so anything other than dense feels too short. That's one incredible thing about this game, it's full of details and lore. Not of the "let me tell you a story about something you will never see in the game" (like Morrowind), but more of the "let me give you a backstory about every character, creature, and fucking ingredient".

It's lovely. I just wish the information was more logically put together. But I'd rather be lost in a sea of information than standing on a puddle with clear directions on how to exit.
 

naossano

Cipher
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,232
Location
Marseilles, France
The Witcher is the exact opposite. It had some great writing, and was full of memorable characters and storylines, but had absolute horseshit for gameplay. Shit combat, shit exploration, shit character development. Narrative driven world structure with only small parts of the world available at any time, and even those constrained by ever-present fences, quests with the game telling you EVERYTHING you had to do to the tiniest detail with a couple of exceptions and then tracking/compassing it for you as well.

For me, the chapter based thing was a huge pro, one of the best things of the game that i remember fondly, simply because when i played it, we were (and still are) right in the middle of the MUH OPEN WORLD crap train. There is not a single game released today that doesn't advertize itself as open crap. What if you don't like open world ? What if you like it, but don't want to see it in every single game ? That chapter thing was a great vacation from that fashion that swallowed the rest of the industry.

But that a thing about geographical linearity that was quite welcomed. Although, i didn't like much how they handled narrative linearity. Their rare attempts at C & C are too heavy handed "in your face". They can"'t help you yell at you "See, there is a consequence of your action. Is that wonderfull". I ask you to put those C & C in the game, not that you remind me constantly which they are.
 
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Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
But that a thing about geographical linearity that was quite welcomed. Although, i didn't like much how they handled narrative linearity. Their rare attempts at C & C are too heavy handed "in your face". They can"'t help you yell at you "See, there is a consequence of your action. Is that wonderfull". I ask you to put those C & C in the game, not that you remind me constantly which they are.

It's even funnier when you doesn't understand the relation between C & C in the game. I had one character go to jail for something I did earlier in the game. And I would have been like "how the fuck are these two related" if not for the handy cutscene that explained it (although, without it, I wouldn't have realized they were related in the first place).

It doesn't help either (not a complaint about the game) that there are SO MANY characters in this game when I compare it to the other games. Generally you have very, very few important characters per town or city, lilke in Fallout: New Vegas. Here, a lot of characters, and I do mean A LOT, are involved in the main story quests.

Hell, in New Vegas, the important plot NPCs are basically five: Benny, Yes Man, Mr. House, the NCR, and Caesar. Everything else is just filler NPCs that tell you "they went that-a-way", generally no quests are associated with them, with the exception of Manny Vargas, Jessup, and The King. In The Witcher, a lot of NPCs are extremely important in building up the main quest, so it makes sense you interact with them far more than you do with say Jessup (who you can kill when you first see him in Boulder City).

Again, that's what I like about this game. Without thick NPCs, I'm pretty sure it would be over fairly soon.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
I know, double post and yadda yadda, but it's been 9 days.

Anyhow, I'm in love with this game. It's incredibly addicting. I don't know if it's the combat, the enemies and their weaknesses, the alchemy system (very useful in Hard difficulty) or what, but this game is excellent. I can even overlook the fetch quests since they make sense from the game's perspective (you are a monster-hunter and made for that purpose as opposed to every RPG character ever who just happens to be everyone's bitch). I've even come to love Vizima's swamp area, even though I HATED it before. I'm still in Chapter 3, I wonder how many hours I have into the game but sadly there's no record of it that I can check.

Overall, a damn fun game. Maybe the respawning enemies have something to do about it, as opposed to New Vegas' "enjoy exploring an empty map once you've killed your foes". The huge variation in opponents probably has to do with it as well, as opposed to Radscorpions/Raiders/the ocassional Legion/NCR hit squad.
 

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