The Weekly/Yearly LOL Baldur's Gate sucks thread!

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Buffs like party version of Protection from Evil are quite valuable. Bless and Chant are good as well, as is Negative Plane protection.

I didn't use negative plane protection even once (don't like the short duration), if there's undead to kill, amulett of power + azure edge works well enough.
Prayer and Chant might have been relevant in BG1 when +1 to hit could have made a difference.
That leaves Pro Evil 10' radius. Nice to have, but who cares when carrying the staff of the magi. Can memorize the single target version if you think you need it for some specific scenario.

 

[Sykar]

I didn't use negative plane protection even once (don't like the short duration), if there's undead to kill, amulett of power + azure edge works well enough.
Prayer and Chant might have been relevant in BG1 when +1 to hit could have made a difference.
That leaves Pro Evil 10' radius. Nice to have, but who cares when carrying the staff of the magi. Can memorize the single target version if you think you need it for some specific scenario.

You talk like you play solo.

 

[DollarSign]

You can turn Vi into somewhat of a nuisance to enemy spellcasters if you put enough MR items on her and pump saving throws.


You generally need support before combat not during it (buffs). You buff and then whackamole everything quickly.
And Aerie wouls still probably be better cause she can support with both cleric's and wizard's spells, even wear Robe of Vecna for faster casting (I usually have someone else to wear it but I think I will try it some day for a change).

Buffs have limited duration, nigger. They run out pretty fast when you're storming a dungeon, unless you backtrack and rest after every fight. You need a player dedicated to replenishing them ASAP, and being in the midst of battle will cause many failed spells and much ragequit.

 

[Eyestabber]

Ranged characters aren't that dangerous. And Anomen would probably be better support too, he has more HP, in the end he will have as many spells and if you make him Good-aligned his spell selection would be better than Vi's I think (Holy Word). (don't remember if alignment shift changes his spells or if he has Holy Word already actually, was a long time I had him in party)

I was gonna reply to the thread, but this pretty much sums it up. BG 2 is not BG, OP special arrows are no longer there and the engine is different in the sense that melee characters seem to close the gap WAY faster than they did on BG 1. I'll say it one more time: pure class clerics (and thieves) reach a power ceiling at mid-high levels and investing further on these classes is just a massive waste of XP. Dual classing and multiclassing are the way to go (with dual being stronger without a "PnP rules" mod regarding weapon skills). I've beaten the game with both Anomen and Viconia (maximum dificulty/no savescum) and I'm 100% confident that Anomen dealt WAY more damage and died WAY less often, with very little difference in terms of his ability to provide support for the rest of the party.

 

[Eyestabber]

Buffs have limited duration, nigger. They run out pretty fast when you're storming a dungeon, unless you backtrack and rest after every fight. You need a player dedicated to replenishing them ASAP, and being in the midst of battle will cause many failed spells and much ragequit.

Best way to avoid failed spells is using the Robe of Vecna. Which is a pro-Aerie argument. Viconia is still subpar. Better way to avoid failed spells is to scout ahead with a thief and buff BEFORE fighting.

 

[Sykar]

I was gonna reply to the thread, but this pretty much sums it up. BG 2 is not BG, OP special arrows are no longer there and the engine is different in the sense that melee characters seem to close the gap WAY faster than they did on BG 1. I'll say it one more time: pure class clerics (and thieves) reach a power ceiling at mid-high levels and investing further on these classes is just a massive waste of XP. Dual classing and multiclassing are the way to go (with dual being stronger without a "PnP rules" mod regarding weapon skills). I've beaten the game with both Anomen and Viconia (maximum dificulty/no savescum) and I'm 100% confident that Anomen dealt WAY more damage and died WAY less often, with very little difference in terms of his ability to provide support for the rest of the party.

Viconia was way more reliable against any caster enemy, which is basically more than half of the battles. 100% MR is something you cannot emulate even with priest spells.

Best way to avoid failed spells is using the Robe of Vecna. Which is a pro-Aerie argument. Viconia is still subpar. Better way to avoid failed spells is to scout ahead with a thief and buff BEFORE fighting.

There is no subpar companion. They all have their specific strengths and fit certain roles better than others. The original unmodded game has been soloed by a frickin beast master the weakest class in the game.

 

[Eyestabber]

100% MR is good, but most of the time you don't really care about avoiding damage, you care about avoiding CCs which, 95% of times, can be done with the proper spell (mind blank, negative plane protection, death ward and so on).

 

[Sykar]

100% MR is good, but most of the time you don't really care about avoiding damage, you care about avoiding CCs which, 95% of times, can be done with the proper spell (mind blank, negative plane protection, death ward and so on).

With 100% I do not give a damn about CC at all times. There are also dispelling spells and unless you know every encounter to the letter you will not be able to know what CC they will use. Keeping every potential buff against CC up is tedious and time consuming. Much faster to let Viconia just dispel them.

 

[MrMarbles]

I didn't use negative plane protection even once (don't like the short duration), if there's undead to kill, amulett of power + azure edge works well enough.
Prayer and Chant might have been relevant in BG1 when +1 to hit could have made a difference.
That leaves Pro Evil 10' radius. Nice to have, but who cares when carrying the staff of the magi. Can memorize the single target version if you think you need it for some specific scenario.

Doom, Remove Fear, DuHM, Silence, Animate Dead, Death Ward, Defensive Harmony, Prot 10', Chaotic Fucking Commands, Righteous Magic, True Seeing, Heal, Wondrous Recall, Firestorm, Deva

 

[Eyestabber]

With 100% I do not give a damn about CC at all times. There are also dispelling spells and unless you know every encounter to the letter you will not be able to know what CC they will use. Keeping every potential buff against CC up is tedious and time consuming. Much faster to let Viconia just dispel them.

I can see where you are coming from, casting tons of buffs before venturing forth is pretty tedious, but I don't think dispelling is a reliable alternative. Dispelling is a messy business, your buffs end up getting dispelled along with the CC most of the time. I'm more of a "don't get CC'ed in the first place/stab mages and clerics in the face before they can wreck havoc" kind of guy. That's why I prefer the Beserker over the Kensai -> semi immunity to CC is REALLY useful.

 

[Sykar]

I can see where you are coming from, casting tons of buffs before venturing forth is pretty tedious, but I don't think dispelling is a reliable alternative. Dispelling is a messy business, your buffs end up getting dispelled along with the CC most of the time. I'm more of a "don't get CC'ed in the first place/stab mages and clerics in the face before they can wreck havoc" kind of guy. That's why I prefer the Beserker over the Kensai -> semi immunity to CC is REALLY useful.

I didn't mean literally just the spell "Dispel". I was referring to the myriad of dispelling spells and the buffs work as dispels as well. Chaotic Commands works 100%, as does Remove Paralysis for example.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Doom, Remove Fear, DuHM, Silence, Animate Dead, Death Ward, Defensive Harmony, Prot 10', Chaotic Fucking Commands, Righteous Magic, True Seeing, Heal, Wondrous Recall, Firestorm, Deva

Malison, Resist Fear, not needed, lol, have it too, Spell Immunity is better anyway, you won't hit me but feel free to try, already covered, irrelevant except at the very beginning of the game at low levels and effect can be replicated with potions, don't have to melee but I can do better with improved haste, have it too, 3 potions do the same, Wish, Abi Dhalzims/Dragon breath, Planetar

I bring a wizard because another wizard is better than a cleric, pretty straightforward stuff.

 

[hiver]

StupidSign said:

No, his imprisonment spells are actually hard-coded scripts that, as hell bovine stated, are ranged as opposed to touch, are insta-cast, uninterruptable, and don't seem to have a limit.

They do have a limit and are easily defended against, with proper buffing. Or just berserking Minsc and letting Boo go for the eyes.

- not to mention cheesing summons and other stuff you can do there.


Kangaxx is also not any kind of usual hard encounter in the game, but a one time only special hard encounter which is internally excused with him supposedly being almost godlike. Which his epic spells show. Same as Irenicus.
If your cheap idiot theory was correct you would be able to provide actual examples of hard counters that are unbeatable due to "unfair" spells.

- Twisted Rune is the usual hard encounter, on the other hand.


True Sight and invisibility
or as the StupidSign says: WAAAH THE ENEMIES TELEPORT AROUND - Treu Spell doesnt woooork!!!
- They just use invisibility and move around until its dispelled or they make a move. True sight does make them visible but thats a spell that can be saved against.



The system is skewed in favor of spellcasters.... therefore there cannot be a purely melee based hard encounter - because in such a system the player party will be spell based, one way or another - and the player can cheese through all of it in ways that the AI cannot possibly do.
Which is why those few lone examples of one special encounter and the ending boss have those special spells that you dont.
To balance cheap players like you from cheesing it.
I know this is too complicated for such a laughable arrogant dumfuck.. but its true.



i dont see any quotes of my posts confirming the previous strawmans you made.

And just an obvious dumbfuck vomiting his laughable psychological projections is not what proves anything except what dumbfuck you are. Youre a natural.





You Baldurs gate avatars can correct me if im wrong instead of discussing yet fucking again what to do with fucking Anomen.[/QUOTE]

 

[Sykar]

Malison, Resist Fear, not needed, lol, have it too, Spell Immunity is better anyway, you won't hit me but feel free to try, already covered, irrelevant except at the very beginning of the game at low levels and effect can be replicated with potions, don't have to melee but I can do better with improved haste, have it too, 3 potions do the same, Wish, Abi Dhalzims/Dragon breath, Planetar

I bring a wizard because another wizard is better than a cleric, pretty straightforward stuff.

To get full protection against all kinds of debuffs/CC you need to cast it like 5 times, it's only castable on yourself. Doom and Malison stack, Doom is also instant cast. Clerics get Animate Dead a lot earlier and cast it as a mere slvl 3 instgead of slvl 5 spell, Improved Haste and Righteous Magic stack, No potion replicates Heal. Dragon Breath is a HLA and therefore an invalid comparison to Firestorm, Deva is better than Planetar. Natures Beauty is one of the best CC spells in the game. Then there is turn undead, which makes many undead heavy areas cakewalk and it costs nothing.
Again, game without mods in it's original state is soloable by a beastmaster, so it pretty much doesn't matter at all whom you bring.

 

[potatojohn]

to be honest, I always thought bringing a cleric wasn't necessary in BG2. There's nothing healing-wise you can't replicate with scrolls/potions and those are abundant, so I'd always prefered to bring another wizard.

Animate Dead (at lvl 15+) is amazing.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

To get full protection against all kinds of debuffs/CC you need to cast it like 5 times, it's only castable on yourself. Doom and Malison stack, Doom is also instant cast. Clerics get Animate Dead a lot earlier and cast it as a mere slvl 3 instgead of slvl 5 spell, Improved Haste and Righteous Magic stack, No potion replicates Heal. Dragon Breath is a HLA and therefore an invalid comparison to Firestorm, Deva is better than Planetar. Natures Beauty is one of the best CC spells in the game. Then there is turn undead, which makes many undead heavy areas cakewalk and it costs nothing.
Again, game without mods in it's original state is soloable by a beastmaster, so it pretty much doesn't matter at all whom you bring.

In what ways is a deva better than a planetar? You're getting things confused. Yes, getting the warrior skeletons earlier and as a level 3 spell is better. But hey, let's not only focus on the (few) good cleric spells. We also need to look at it the other way around. Now you tell me how clerics make up for the following:
Magic Missile, Chromatic Orb, Spook, Blur, Glitterdust, Invis, Web, Mirror Image, Haste, Skull Trap, Flame Arrow, Minute Meteors, Emotion, Farsight, Fireshield, Malison, Improved Invis, Minor Globe, Minor Sequencer, Stoneskin, Teleport Field, Breach, Clowdkill, Feeblemind, Lower Resistance, Spell Immunity, Sunfire, Contingiency, Death Spell, Death Fog, Globe, Improved haste, Mislead, Pierce Magic, Pro magic Energy, Pro Magical Weapons, Nishruu, Delayed Blast Fireball, Limited Wish, Finger of Death, Mass Invis, Mordenkainens Sword, Project Image, Sequencer, Hakeashar, Abi Dhlazims, Incendiary Cloud, Maze, pierce Shield, PW:blind, Simulacrum, Spelltrigger, Chain Contingiency, PW:Kill, Wail, Time Stop, Shapechange, Spell Trap, Spellstrike and Wish.

Spoiler

they can't

 

[Sykar]

CC: +6 save, piss poor damage
Spook; Many enemies outright immune (All undead, all elementals, many outsiders, etc.)
Blur: Tiny bonus.
Glitterdust: Gets constantly saved against
Invis: Breaks on any action. Sanctuary does the same but is level 1.
Web: Not part friendly. Many enemies will later save against it quite easily. Floating/flying and big enemies are immung.

Want me to continue? Let's also not forget that Clerics get about 50%-90% more spell slots per day than even Wizards.

 

[DollarSign]

All this sweet pillow talk made me want to play Baldur's Gate again.

What's better, original Baldur's Gate 1&2 with widescreen mod and BG Trilogy, or the Enhanced Editions?

 

[SwiftCrack]

ITT horrible undead monstrosities explain how much they love Anomen

Where is this from? The Baldur's Gate 3D remake in the DA engine?

 

[Shadenuat]

Now you tell me how clerics make up for the following

You picked some spells that clerics have in their spellbooks (like Farsight, Finger of Death and all Power Words). Should update your journal
There's also a shit ton of equivalents in cleric/druid's spellbooks (Holy Smite/Skulltrap, fire-whatever/Fire Storm), so if you know the game why pick those?

 

[hell bovine]

CC: +6 save, piss poor damage
Spook; Many enemies outright immune (All undead, all elementals, many outsiders, etc.)
Blur: Tiny bonus.
Glitterdust: Gets constantly saved against
Invis: Breaks on any action. Sanctuary does the same but is level 1.
Web: Not part friendly. Many enemies will later save against it quite easily. Floating/flying and big enemies are immung.

Want me to continue? Let's also not forget that Clerics get about 50%-90% more spell slots per day than even Wizards.

Invisibility does not break on any action. From what I tested with my sorceress, you can safely cast spells that are self-centered on the caster. Which means casting time stop doesn't break invisibility. Reason why Aerie is superior to Viconia is because she can bypass the spell per round rule, like any mages do. Doesn't matter in the vanilla game anyway, because enemy spellcasters have useless AI and useless spell choices.

All this sweet pillow talk made me want to play Baldur's Gate again.

What's better, original Baldur's Gate 1&2 with widescreen mod and BG Trilogy, or the Enhanced Editions?

From what I've read, BG:EE is not really compatible with Ascension, and that alone would be my recommendation to get BGT.

 

[Sykar]

Invisibility does not break on any action. From what I tested with my sorceress, you can safely cast spells that are self-centered on the caster. Which means casting time stop doesn't break invisibility. Reason why Aerie is superior to Viconia is because she can bypass the spell per round rule, like any mages do. Doesn't matter in the vanilla game anyway, because enemy spellcasters have useless AI and useless spell choices.


From what I've read, BG:EE is not really compatible with Ascension, and that alone would be my recommendation to get BGT.

That's not different from Sanctuary whatsoever so what's your point? Iirc it doesn't break from Blade Barrier so you can actually deal damage without breaking it. Sanctuary is still superior, especially since it is not subject to spells like True Sight.

 

[Greatness]

Clerics are fine but I don't think anyone realisticly can argue that they're superior to wizards. I'd still always have both if I'm not doing a solo run since variety in spell selection/tactics is best thing about the BG series.

No way in hell would I ever take Anomen though. If I really want to powergame I'd just make a custom party over having to deal with that faggot for 60+ hours or however long BG2 is.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Obviously dual/multi is more powerful than a single class, especially in late game BG2 and ToB. However, Viconia as a pure support is quite useful when you play with SCS2. Because 95% of battles start with the enemy spellcasters dispelling all your buffs and then spam you with CC spells. Having Viconia with 100% MR (or near there) immune to CC spells and who can buff the rest of the party and dispelling CC from others while Aerie and Edwin spam DD/CC spells. Because you often do not have the luxury of having Aerie waste 5 turns buffing the party in the middle of a battle.

 

[hell bovine]

That's not different from Sanctuary whatsoever so what's your point? Iirc it doesn't break from Blade Barrier so you can actually deal damage without breaking it. Sanctuary is still superior, especially since it is not subject to spells like True Sight.

My point was that your claim that invisibility breaks under any action is incorrect. Also, I am not sure if sanctuary isn't dispelled by True sight in vanilla. BG2 spell reference lists it as dispellable illusion:
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/DivineSpells.htm
I haven't played vanilla in a long time, so I don't remember.

Obviously dual/multi is more powerful than a single class, especially in late game BG2 and ToB. However, Viconia as a pure support is quite useful when you play with SCS2. Because 95% of battles start with the enemy spellcasters dispelling all your buffs and then spam you with CC spells. Having Viconia with 100% MR (or near there) immune to CC spells and who can buff the rest of the party and dispelling CC from others while Aerie and Edwin spam DD/CC spells. Because you often do not have the luxury of having Aerie waste 5 turns buffing the party in the middle of a battle.

You can buff very quickly using sequencers, though. I never got far with a Tactics party, but I used to buff Aerie at the start of the fight into an elven ball of fluffy rage and sent her into melee, because she had so much staying power than melee fighters. And I had Viccy in the party too.