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The Vanishing of Ethan Carter - ludonarrative dissonance begone

Gurkog

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I thought the Half-Life series was the Citizen Kane of modern gaming? Most of the corridor shooting between giant set pieces started with that shit and look how popular it became.
 

Lancehead

Liturgist
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Messages
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That's not what Half-Life did. Half-Life provided a template for story-driven FPS.

And the game's awesome.
 

Jarpie

Arcane
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Codex 2012 MCA
Fucking idiots throwing around Citizen Kane without understanding what makes that film great, fucking philistines!

:x
 

shihonage

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Bubbles In Memoria
Half-Life 1 was a front-loaded derp that impressed with its visuals, sacrificed gameplay to narrative, and foreshadowed the linear shooters of today.

Half-Life 2 had better budget and more consistent, higher quality of narrative. However you still need to solve that pace-killing puzzle and then go into that linear driving section and then use that specific weapon to blow up that chopper. Derpity derp.

Both games were overrated but good for what they were.
 

Tehdagah

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Joined
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Messages
9,236
(...)

Uh, no. Not at all. In fact, I do not seem to remember game other than B:I where it is so obvious ; the issue does pop out in Uncharted where Drake is fairly nonchalant after killing hundreds of people but it's still not enough for it to be a big issue, and yes, it's Indiana Jones like. It is handed fairly worse in the last Tomb Raider when they decided to go Popamole and disregard their character development.
Uncharted doesn't even have realistic graphics. Everything is too bright and colorful, everyone is too pretty/handsome.

You don't need to look like Mario to be stylized.
 

Tommy Wiseau

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
9,424
I join the poster with hard to pronounce username. I do like my games to look like games. They were born with a unique art style , why give up on that ? ROI on graphics is getting lower and lower with each new generation of hardware anyway.

Anyway, about Ludonarratie Dissonance, I hate to go against my Ultima buddy, and against some of people in that thread but it is a real issue. Is it a big issue ? No.
I did notice it in Bioshock : Infinite . The best parts where the ones that received the less focus, the ones with no combat. It felt like the game designers had designed a good universe and an acceptable story yet picked the wrong game genre for it. Some say the medium is the message ; here, the medium ruined the message.

Is it happening in a lot of other games ?

Uh, no. Not at all. In fact, I do not seem to remember game other than B:I where it is so obvious ; the issue does pop out in Uncharted where Drake is fairly nonchalant after killing hundreds of people but it's still not enough for it to be a big issue, and yes, it's Indiana Jones like. It is handed fairly worse in the last Tomb Raider when they decided to go Popamole and disregard their character development.

But still ? Calling Dear Esther the Citizen Kane of gaming is absolute bullshit too. However, it is right in just making the assumption that Dear Esther is a game that is not to be looked down on, as long as people do not try to establish it as a new standard. The Dear Esther format would have worked better with Bioshock : Infinite, absolutely. But that's about it.

I am still sad though to notice that the genre that is the most accomplished in terms of narration still remain the Interactive Fiction. An Apple II can tell better stories than our powerhouses, and that is an absolute shame.

He recognizes that gamist elements are easier to implement in extremely fantastical or absurd settings. The difference is the shift in direction: developers want to create more 'serious games', but they need new gameplay to support them.
 

Carrion

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Half-Life 1 was a front-loaded derp that impressed with its visuals, sacrificed gameplay to narrative, and foreshadowed the linear shooters of today.
Visually Half-Life was mediocre at best, and the gameplay was the narrative. Deus Ex later perfected this approach and every game should just try to copy it as much as possible.
 
Joined
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Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Half-Life 1 was a front-loaded derp that impressed with its visuals, sacrificed gameplay to narrative, and foreshadowed the linear shooters of today.

Half-Life 2 had better budget and more consistent, higher quality of narrative. However you still need to solve that pace-killing puzzle and then go into that linear driving section and then use that specific weapon to blow up that chopper. Derpity derp.

Both games were overrated but good for what they were.

HL1 was on Quake 2 engine, and was mostly filled with labolatories and goverment facilities. It wasn't impressive that much. The AI and focusing more on narration than gathering red/blue/yellow cards made something new and memorable. And on the base of the game there is a big community which made tons of nice mods (f.e They Hunger series). The second was is worse, the riding parts are killing the mood, and Alyx is just unecessary npc. Playing with gravity at the first time is fun, but after replaying the whole game I'll stick to the original one.
 

Konjad

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Half-Life 1 was a front-loaded derp that impressed with its visuals, sacrificed gameplay to narrative, and foreshadowed the linear shooters of today.

Half-Life 2 had better budget and more consistent, higher quality of narrative. However you still need to solve that pace-killing puzzle and then go into that linear driving section and then use that specific weapon to blow up that chopper. Derpity derp.

Both games were overrated but good for what they were.

HL1 was on Quake 2 engine, and was mostly filled with labolatories and goverment facilities. It wasn't impressive that much. The AI and focusing more on narration than gathering red/blue/yellow cards made something new and memorable. And on the base of the game there is a big community which made tons of nice mods (f.e They Hunger series). The second was is worse, the riding parts are killing the mood, and Alyx is just unecessary npc. Playing with gravity at the first time is fun, but after replaying the whole game I'll stick to the original one.
I can't say any Half-Life is worth replaying... though I enjoyed them all when I played them for the first time.
 

Hellraiser

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Apr 22, 2007
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Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
I replayed half-life 2 along with the two episodes 4 times at least. The vehicle sections where you drive/cruise through the devastated countryside are the best parts. The shootan is good enough to be very enjoyable even after multiple playthroughs, way better than in modern Call of Popamole and other shit. Liked the puzzles. Babysitting Alyx sucks though. Also Dr. Breen was a good antagonist. Eagerly awaiting the next installment. :4/5: better than any other single player pure FPS made in the last decade, although not the best that could be made within the genre.

DEAL-WITH-IT.jpg
 

grotsnik

Arcane
Joined
Jul 11, 2010
Messages
1,671
To the topic, I don't like the current crop of Messiah fever amongst games pundits any more than anybody else. It's desperately insecure, it plays shamefully into the hands of the hype merchants, and it devalues everything it comes into contact with (Dragon Age 2 is video gaming's Euripides!). But the other component to the guy's argument freaks me out infinitely more. "I assume that the ultimate form of action-adventure gaming is a perfect VR simulation." It isn't about removing gameplay elements, it's about removing gameplay elements with the aim of steering first-person games closer to trying to be a passably convincing form of virtual reality.

According to Chmielarz, that means more Dear Esthers using the first-person character avatar to put the player in the shoes of another human being and tell a deeply personal story (regardless of quality or lack of - I haven't played watched Dear Esther). But according to the natural direction of the industry and the natural inclination of so many players, it means more games as 100% Effective Immersive Escape Into A Fantasy World For People Who Can't Handle Real Life; In This Safe Womb-like Space You Will Accomplish Things. Here You Have No Acne. If You Murdered Your Flesh-Mother You Could Keep Playing And She'd Stop Sobbing In The Corner About Your Weight Gain. It's a recipe for the medium wholeheartedly embracing all the legitimate concerns that opponents of the medium have already expressed about it.
 

Cowboy Moment

Arcane
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
4,407
https://twitter.com/adrianchm/status/330718447757574146

Welp, the Codex takes another step closer to mainstream recognition via winding people up so much that they publicly denounce it.

Shame on you Roguey, your developer stalking skills have failed you at such a crucial moment. I am disappoint.

In any case, paging Crooked Bee, time to deal with the fallout of this incident like a true PR department. :smug:

Someone should tell him modders already beat him to this little "revolution":
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-worry-of-newport
http://www.moddb.com/mods/triptych
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-call-of-the-fireflies

And..you know...all those ahhhd-veen-tuurhhh games that people used to play.

I remember reading about Call of the Fireflies, and wanting to check it out, but I seem to have forgotten. Is it actually good? What about The Worry of Newport?
 

Turjan

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
5,047
I was thinking you could maybe invite him to register on the Codex and join the discussion? :)

That idea usually plays out much more lulzy in your head than when it really happens. What is he supposed to say? The general idea of "ludonarrative dissonance" isn't a bad one. Do you think he will admit that lifting "Dear Esther" into the gaming olymp is pretentious bullshit to stir up discussion? And admit it, he succeeded marvelously at this, as this thread shows.
 

MasPingon

Arcane
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
1,797
Location
Castle Rock
Poland apologizes for Adrian Chmielarz. Once, he was a cool guy, made Painkiller game. Then his soul was corrupted by Epic Games and mind was poisoned by EA. Now he is a dumbfuck talking about ludonarrative dissonance and Bioshock:Infinite as an example of how games should look like in the future. It's a real shame what have happened to this man.
 

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