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The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Saving the scientist isn't the point. That little vignette shows the player that horrible shit is going down in Black Mesa - but in a tongue-in-cheek way that establishes the game's quirky mood.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
(ITT, an uppity newfag manages to manipulate several respected Codexers into defending CoD MW3:troll: )
 

MetalCraze

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Quirky mood? You mean like going around killing shit like in Quake?

And what if I want to save the scientist OR not forcing me to care? Or let me shoot the scientist myself? Why does a DEEP and INNOVATIVE HL didn't let me? It isn't like it's a cutscene the blocks me from moving.

So why the stuff where I can't affect shit is bad in CoD but good in HL?
 
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Saving the scientist isn't the point. That little vignette shows the player that horrible shit is going down in Black Mesa - but in a tongue-in-cheek way that establishes the game's quirky mood.

Nice, but that's also beside the point. You were saying sitting on your thumbs and watching the scientist get murdered by headcrabs is a better execution of a scripted scene than sitting on your thumbs and watch Makarov get murdered by Price.

edit:
Manipulate?

jr47qt.jpg
 

Wyrmlord

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Here's how you do an Establish The Setting trick in a game.

You don't have a passive cutscene.

You instead do UNATCO HQ from Deus Ex. In a hurry? Walk in, say hello to your boss, get your stuff, and get out. 60 seconds work. And if you do want to slow down, you can visit every single room, have water cooler conversations, get some extra supplies,.etc. Most of all, you do not lose control. You actually engage in something at your own pace and style.
 

SoupNazi

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Here's how you do an Establish The Setting trick in a game.

You don't have a passive cutscene.

You instead do UNATCO HQ from Deus Ex. In a hurry? Walk in, say hello to your boss, get your stuff, and get out. 60 seconds work. And if you do want to slow down, you can visit every single room, have water cooler conversations, get some extra supplies,.etc. Most of all, you do not lose control. You actually engage in something at your own pace and style.
It would have been better if you could jump around Simmons and Page and throw boxes on them while they talk. Or if you could at least control the camera instead of it panning around all cool-like. That would have truly changed the FPS landscape.
 

Angthoron

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Here's how you do an Establish The Setting trick in a game.

You don't have a passive cutscene.

You instead do UNATCO HQ from Deus Ex. In a hurry? Walk in, say hello to your boss, get your stuff, and get out. 60 seconds work. And if you do want to slow down, you can visit every single room, have water cooler conversations, get some extra supplies,.etc. Most of all, you do not lose control. You actually engage in something at your own pace and style.
It would have been better if you could jump around Simmons and Page and throw boxes on them while they talk. Or if you could at least control the camera instead of it panning around all cool-like. That would have truly changed the FPS landscape.

Actually, yes, that would make the intro better. But you know what'd make it even better than that? If it wasn't fucking there. Deus Ex intro is possibly the worst thing in the entire fucking game, ruining the whole conspiracy shit right off the bat. I'm kinda thankful that the shitty rip I played the first time didn't have it - had a much better experience guessing just what the fuck was going on.
 

SoupNazi

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Why is it that people defending retarded claims always have reading impairment? Oh wait, you're just trying to deflect. I didn't say the intro was great. I was laughing at your claim that the scene would have been made better by camera control or some other retarded Half-Life-like gimmick.
 

Angthoron

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Why is it that people defending retarded claims always have reading impairment? Oh wait, you're just trying to deflect. I didn't say the intro was great. I was laughing at your claim that the scene would have been made better by camera control or some other retarded Half-Life-like gimmick.
Oh well, isn't this ironic. What I'm saying is that the sequence is shit and that it can't be made worse, whether you could throw boxes or teabag the orators. Dunno, maybe if you took a better example and offered to add a stupid pseudo-interactive gimmick, it'd work better.

:what:



you're trolling, right?

No. It's a shitty sequence.
 

SoupNazi

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No, you didn't say it couldn't be made any worse, you said it'd be better.
 

Oriebam

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You'd need to remove more than that(several notes and e-mails, some of the dialogue too) to create doubt about who are the bad guys, and in the current game it's something you find out within the first 4 hours anyway

also it helps establishing page's motivations
 

Angthoron

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No, you didn't say it couldn't be made any worse, you said it'd be better.
Sarcasm bro, learn it.

You'd need to remove more than that(several notes and e-mails, some of the dialogue too) to create doubt about who are the bad guys, and in the current game it's something you find out within the first 4 hours anyway

also it helps establishing page's motivations

Well, you have two chief conspirators showing up and revealing a bunch of exposition while being EEEEVIL. If it was any other game but Divine Deus Ex, people would instantly shit all over it, but since it's a classic, no way man.

Also, yes, key word in your post is "find out". Not "being exposed to in the intro"

Don't get me wrong, the game is great, but that intro, fucking awful. At least it's skippable.
 

DraQ

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Actually, yes, that would make the intro better. But you know what'd make it even better than that? If it wasn't fucking there. Deus Ex intro is possibly the worst thing in the entire fucking game, ruining the whole conspiracy shit right off the bat. I'm kinda thankful that the shitty rip I played the first time didn't have it - had a much better experience guessing just what the fuck was going on.
Fucking this.
:salute: :bro:

Also, most people in this thread are fucking retarded. The main difference between whatever popamole QTE/cutscene we are discussing and most of HL1 scripted scenes is that most HL scenes don't even need to be skippable - you don't need to stop by that window either to watch the scientist die, or to pick your nose/stare at wall whatever. You can just run/walk past. Nothing is stopping you. Such scene is more than skippable - it's in the background. There are some situations where you have to wait for a character to stop talking, but other than that you can usually just ignore the scripted scene.

Finally, the difference between scripted scene and cutscene (with or without QTE) is that scripted scene has to be made mechanically plausible regardless of what player will do. Of course it won't be necessarily plausible in terms of friendly/neutral characters reacting to asshole physics and behaviour, but when doing a scripted scene, you can't rely on protagonist standing there like a lemon when he has an opportunity to harm the enemy. I defended DX:HR in another thread, but the fact is that if it had HL scripts instead of cutscenes, it would probably end up about 4 times shorter unless the fevs would come up with something different than lemonade to keep Jensen from not falling to shitty tricks.

Of course Skyway et al. will still complain about how it takes away your control because you can't just hulk out and burst through the wall to save the day or something. Next thing we will hear how some other background element, like weather system is retarded cutscene, because you cannot somehow affect it so it "takes your control away and you have to sit twiddling thumbs in your ass" or something.
Fucking retards.
:decline:

Why is it that people defending retarded claims always have reading impairment? Oh wait, you're just trying to deflect. I didn't say the intro was great. I was laughing at your claim that the scene would have been made better by camera control or some other retarded Half-Life-like gimmick.
It would. Primary Half-Life gimmick is "you can't see it if you aren't there".
Denton wasn't there.

Problem?
:troll:
Solved.
 

Oriebam

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Well, you have two chief conspirators showing up and revealing a bunch of exposition while being EEEEVIL. If it was any other game but Divine Deus Ex, people would instantly shit all over it, but since it's a classic, no way man.
Also, yes, key word in your post is "find out". Not "being exposed to in the intro"

Approach it as if you never played the game. You don't know what they mean by Vandenberg(or Savage), you don't know that they've practically taken over UNATCO(or even about Manderley), Silhouette is barely relevant, no direct mention of the Illuminati either, you also don't know about the cause of the plague or the deal with the cure, then there's the AI's who play a significant role in the plot and aren't mentioned, or what Page means by becoming a god

It doesn't make much difference, as you need information given later in the game to figure out things for sure, guess that's why people don't criticize it, though you can argue parts of it don't make much sense on purpose, and it can also be argued Page was established as the antagonist too soon, dunno

Don't get me wrong, the game is great
This comment is possibly the worst thing in your entire fucking post, completely ruins the :obviously:

I mean this place is supposed to be one of the forums where you don't have to say that
 

Angthoron

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Approach it as if you never played the game. You don't know what they mean by Vandenberg(or Savage), you don't know that they've practically taken over UNATCO(or even about Manderley), Silhouette is barely relevant, no direct mention of the Illuminati either, you also don't know about the cause of the plague or the deal with the cure, then there's the AI's who play a significant role in the plot and aren't mentioned, or what Page means by becoming a god

It doesn't make much difference, as you need information given later in the game to figure out things for sure, guess that's why people don't criticize it, though you can argue parts of it don't make much sense on purpose, and it can also be argued Page was established as the antagonist too soon, dunno

Problem is, I've read a novel or two in the genre before, so none of that would be "new" to me anyway. Alright, I don't know the names, but since they're mentioned, they'll be significant SO when I encounter them the first time I'll be OH THIS IS THAT GUY FROM INTRO and not "Hai who're you derpteedoo oh youre important!!!". Alright, I don't know about UNATCO, but presuming it's a group that seems to want to rule the world, safe to assume that the infiltration rate will be significant (Cyberpunk clichés, whee!). Silhouette - alright, that one's better since it's a group. Plague? Again, cyberpunk clichés - nanoplague, obviously, will be confirmed near-instantly or within first hour of playing, anyway, and hey, these assholes have the cure but rather hold the world by the balls and let people die rather than distribute it ----> FUCKING EVIL DIPSHITS. Plus the whole "Rule the world, ahhahahah" cliché, which always adds class to any game, film, novel or comic. Oh, and Illuminati is always at fault in a conspiracy, anyway, so it's a given.

If that's not enough to ruin an intro, let's add the poorly done direction to the mix - the whole thing sounds like it's made in an attempt to sound As Cool As Possible, which is one of the signs of Trying Too Hard. There's no subtlety, which, for a game that has to do with conspiracies if pretty bad.

Finally, as I already pointed out, why is this all given to me in a form of blatant exposition? DXHR actually works better on establishing the setting in the intro with a news broadcast than two people that KNOW or SHOULD know what's going on discussing it in a recap. Would it have been hard to dub the riots as a news broadcast? Probably not. Would it have been hard not to include the whole intro? Probably quite easy.


Don't get me wrong, the game is great
This comment is possibly the worst thing in your entire fucking post, completely ruins the :obviously:
Nooooooooooooooooooo! /dramapose

It would. Primary Half-Life gimmick is "you can't see it if you aren't there".
Denton wasn't there.

Also, this.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I played Deus Ex for the first time when I was 18 - and I have to say that the intro spoiled nothing for me. I had no idea what it all meant except "whoa, cool".

I imagine today I'd be more genre-savvy - for example I quickly inferred who all the people were in the Illuminati chatroom in DX:HR's intro.
 

DraQ

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I played Deus Ex for the first time when I was 18 - and I have to say that the intro spoiled nothing for me. I had no idea what it all meant except "whoa, cool".

Really? I remember advising quite a few people to play DX1 because it was awesome and advising them specifically to skip the intro first time over.
I was 15 or 16.
:obviously:

A little bonus I found regarding HL:
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Well, I did have a touch of the Ass Burgers back then, so maybe my experience wasn't typical (or maybe it was :smug:).
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Well, I did have a touch of the Ass Burgers back then
Well, I'm a full blown one.
Still.

Interesting. I would have thought that comprehending the intricate description of a wide-ranging conspiracy, one involving many different names, places and institutions, and discussed by two unfamiliar faces that you wouldn't meet until much later, would be an exercise in social dynamics that aspies would find difficult.

When I grew out of it, I had to rewatch a whole lot of movies and reread a whole lot of books, because there was an entirely new layer of the narrative I could suddenly understand, that was entirely lost on me before.
 

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