MRY
Wormwood Studios
Some developers talk about it publicly, but I don't think I should. It may be specific to each game.
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The Valve and Steam Platform Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Wirdschowerdn
- Start date
It's nice to hear (and a nice surprise too) that Primordia is second only to Geminie Rue in terms of gross revenue - despite the relatively low reviews. Speaks well of the word of mouth, I guess.
MRY
Wormwood Studios
Well, that's not what Dave said, and I'm not sure it's true. He just said it sold more copies. But Primordia sold like 35k in a Groupees bundle, while the rest of the WEG catalogue (which was in a separate bundle) sold 5k. The Primordia bundle had like 16 other games in it, so while it drove copies sold way up, it drove revenue per copy sold way down. I think it is certainly possible that Resonance has grossed more than Primordia. I think Groupees bundles can basically be seen as giving the game away for free (at least in Primordia's case), so "success" in Groupees really just means that we inflated our units-sold statistic.
[EDIT: Wait, WTF? Dave did say "gross earned"?! I think that must've happened in the edit he did. Or maybe I'm just a very sloppy reader. Huh. News to me, anyway.]
But yeah, Primordia word of mouth is ridiculously good. It's funny: it has the lowest Metacritic critic score of the major WEG games, but the highest player score, the most GOG reviews, and the second most Steam reviews (and highest percentage popular). Epiphany is rated higher on GOG, but that may be a temporary thing (every WEG game starts out at 5 stars and then dips to 4.5 as less passionate fans buy the game on discount). I remain at a loss as to what explains this divide. Part of it is just a fluke -- some sites that gave Primordia very good reviews were not aggregated by Metacritic at the time of Primordia's release, but were aggregated for other WEG releases, which skewed us down. But at the end of the day, it's pretty obvious that for whatever reason, Primordia appeals more to players than to major reviewers. This doesn't appear to be ignorance on either side: very experienced reviewers like Richard Cobbett don't like it, but very experienced players do. My best guesses are (1) Primordia plays better when you are taking your time and poking around at things, and thus suffers if you're playing to complete it and meet a deadline (getting stuck is probably especially annoying to reviewers for that reason); (2) the strong visual references that Vic did to BASS turned off some reviewers (who viewed it as copying) but pleased players (who viewed it as homage); and (3) the game lacked something of the counter-cultural spirit that indie games are supposed to have. But yeah, I don't get it.
MRY
Wormwood Studios
Yeah, I thought he had said "copies sold." "Gross earned" and "gross revenue" are interchangeable -- Dave uses them to mean revenue prior to Steam/GOG/Humble cut.
tuluse
Arcane
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- Jul 20, 2008
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- 11,400
Because I love dissing video game reviewers, I'd add 4) the writing and presentation was often too subtle for them. You don't beat players over the head that Clarity was a strong female character. I don't think she ever even complained about the robopatriarchy keeping her down! She just is. Contrast this with how indie favorites like Gone Home deal with their themes.
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MRY
Wormwood Studios
Quote nesting is off. Do you mind fixing to avoid attributing to me dissing video game reviewers? 
While I'd love to rationalize the results with that theory, I think it's better not to dismiss criticisms. I have no reason to think that the negative pro reviewers are inferior readers to the positive amateur reviewers. That said, I remain perplexed by the RPS review's assertion that the game is philosophically shallow. Of all the narcisitic injuries I suffered, that was one of the worst, and I still find the assertion implausible. It's the one place where I tend to think that the criticism reflects a hostility to the game's perceived political positions rather than an authentic substantive criticism. I don't fancy myself a Rawls or even a learned Hooker, but I'm reasonably confident that Primordia's philosophical depth is better than the average point-and-click's. But maybe the criticism was that the game was too swaggeringly pseudo-philosophical and lacked the chops to back it up.
While I'd love to rationalize the results with that theory, I think it's better not to dismiss criticisms. I have no reason to think that the negative pro reviewers are inferior readers to the positive amateur reviewers. That said, I remain perplexed by the RPS review's assertion that the game is philosophically shallow. Of all the narcisitic injuries I suffered, that was one of the worst, and I still find the assertion implausible. It's the one place where I tend to think that the criticism reflects a hostility to the game's perceived political positions rather than an authentic substantive criticism. I don't fancy myself a Rawls or even a learned Hooker, but I'm reasonably confident that Primordia's philosophical depth is better than the average point-and-click's. But maybe the criticism was that the game was too swaggeringly pseudo-philosophical and lacked the chops to back it up.
Richard Cobbett is a very good reviewer, and I often find his criticism insightful and to the point. However, he also hates (at least) two adventure games I consider great, namely Primordia and The Curse of Monkey Island 
With some outlandish reasons for both, too, imo.
With some outlandish reasons for both, too, imo.
That’s a sad possibility. SF has long been associated with the expression of political views, and the genre has seen a healthy variety of these over time, usually with respect from those involved, but lately there’s been a noxious trend attempting to force a great division in the genre based on politics, with a bellicose “us vs them” attitude. These people will reject something based on their political bias alone, with no honest care for the actual quality of what’s before them. Maybe you were a casualty in the crossfire.
Really? I have yet to read something insightful from him. What I read from him so far was predictably inoffensive and leaned more on the side of light infotainment than genuine critical work.
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Bee has had a soft spot for Cobbett ever since the...drunken Twitter incident.
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Bee has had a soft spot for Cobbett ever since the...drunken Twitter incident.
Nah, I already had a love/hate relationship with Cobbett by then. Otherwise I wouldn't have followed him on Twitter in the first place.
MRY
Wormwood Studios
Gragt Maybe, though John Scalzi was nice enough to let us be the first (only?) game on which he ran a Big Idea post. Partly because of a more-than-healthy level of self-loathing and partly because I believe most people to be sincere, I am inclined to assume that criticisms of the game are based on genuine dislike. God knows there's enough to dislike about it!
Bee has had a soft spot for Cobbett ever since the...drunken Twitter incident.
Back in my day, we didn’t need Twitter to get drunk.
Come on, man, you’re going to end up like Herman Melville: he couldn’t handle the negative criticism of Moby Dick and retired from writing novels. In the end we all lost because of it.
MRY
Wormwood Studios
I wouldn't worry about that: suffering from impostor syndrome* in all other walks of my life hasn't held me back any. (* To paraphrase Joseph Heller, just because I suffer from impostor syndrome doesn't mean I'm not actually worthless!) In any event, I've been working on games non-stop since Primordia
MRY
Wormwood Studios
Given that I form opinions on completely arbitrary, capricious, and stupid bases myself, I can hardly get on too high a horse. (There is little in life more satisfying than when I dislike something for an outrageous reason, and then after the fact I find some justifiable reason, such that I can say, "I was right all along! It turns out that guy with the weird hairline is a bully, so it's totally fine that I didn't like him because of his hairline!")
(There is little in life more satisfying than when I dislike something for an outrageous reason, and then after the fact I find some justifiable reason, such that I can say, "I was right all along! It turns out that guy with the weird hairline is a bully, so it's totally fine that I didn't like him because of his hairline!")
tuluse
Arcane
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- Messages
- 11,400
What is internet anonymity for if not to cast judgement on others?Given that I form opinions on completely arbitrary, capricious, and stupid bases myself, I can hardly get on too high a horse.
Turjan
Arcane
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- Mar 31, 2008
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- 5,047
I must admit that I have the game from the Groupees bundle. This makes me part of the Steam statistics. This also gave me a DRM-free copy of the game, so I did not see any reason to buy it again on gog.com. I think it was released there later? I'll certainly tell people that it's a great game, so there's your word-of-mouth hypothesis in action.
MRY
Wormwood Studios
GOG and Steam releases were simultaneous; I want to say that the Groupees bundle was nine months after release or so. But yeah, to me, word of mouth from a happy fan matters much more to me than the income differential between a bundle sale and a full-price sale.
DramaticPopcorn
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