Vapourware The Tangut Prophecy: FOnline RPG, Historical Fiction, 12th Century China

[CrazyLoon]

Damn right.

The video I posted is of very low quality. Here's a clearer shot of the main menu.

Simply replacing the Chinese text with English ruins the composition. I'll think of something...

 

[tuluse]

Take an idea from Aquaria. The main menu in that game has some made up runes but when you hover the mouse over them it translates. Cool idea, and would fit this perfectly I think.

 

[CrazyLoon]

Take an idea from Aquaria. The main menu in that game has some made up runes but when you hover the mouse over them it translates. Cool idea, and would fit this perfectly I think.

Unfortunately, the stubborn hardcoded menus don't allow that.

 

[Tzaero]

I reckon either use a faux chinese font or just have the english translations very small and underneath each word.

 

[CrazyLoon]

The faux font seems viable. Thanks for the idea, Tzaero.

 

[laclongquan]

Nice. And the period is pretty interesting, in term of lore. Tension between Hans and other races, internal discords, relative peace in huge stretch of lands but chaos reigns in others... plus, if you use the correct name for the lands and people during that period it will sound alien any way. Like Wa for the Japanese people, etc...
About Japanese: how about a short dungeon/town in Jap setting? It's like a port where you wander after a sea trade journey.

 

[CrazyLoon]

Nice. And the period is pretty interesting, in term of lore. Tension between Hans and other races, internal discords, relative peace in huge stretch of lands but chaos reigns in others... plus, if you use the correct name for the lands and people during that period it will sound alien any way. Like Wa for the Japanese people, etc...
About Japanese: how about a short dungeon/town in Jap setting? It's like a port where you wander after a sea trade journey.

Maybe not to the extent of a town, but there are Japanese NPCs in the game. And yeah, the Song period is definitely the most interesting time period in Chinese history.

 

[oscar]

Damn that looks fantastic Loon. Like you, I've longed for a game with no magic, no fantasy elements, no monsters and with a solid footing in history.

Pisses me off that people create these uninspired fantasy universes when real life history is so much more dramatic, interesting and inspiring.

 

[Kattze]

Looks great. I'm glad that someone is doing a historical rpg, within East Asia no less. I have some questions though:

- Would it be party-based? If so, how many characters would be in the party?

- Is there mounted combat? how will you balance fighting as a cavalryman vis-a-vis fighting as infantry? Any particular pluses and maluses?
ie. You can be dehorsed by polearms which will but be much more effective against archers/light infantry
Also, would you include mounted archery? How will you balance it compared to other fighting styles?

- You mention that there would be absolutely no 'magical' elements within your game. How would you integrate religions (Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism) given the game's realistic premise? Would you include them as factions/quests or do you have some other ideas to flesh them out more?

- What about historical characters? For example, Temujin, would you put him in the game as npc, with his own faction, goals and motivations or merely mention him to flesh out the
lore/setting of the game?

I'm in anticipation.

 

[laclongquan]

What does that Fallout Online engine tell you?

 

[Kattze]

I'm not sure to what extent can the FOnline engine be modded though. Still, the setting alone already does it for me.

 

[Tzaero]

Im pretty sure Surf solar managed to make it that you can control your companions.
But otherwise just expect it to be dressed up Fallout combat.

 

[mondblut]

If the encounters are designed to be boring that is. Baldur's Gate has loads of monsters in it, but it is often regarded here in the Codex as the most boring game ever.

ORLY? Last time I checked, BG2 keeps popping up in every "Codex best RPGs" list, and BG1 isn't that far behind.

Not like that's relevant. You can have a million of bricks and still botch a house construction. But with 2 bricks, a house will never be made.

So there, having monsters in the game has nothing to do with designing and executing an encounter. All those monsters were wasted because the developers couldn't design good battles.

In order to design good battles, you gotta have something to design them with. Having one kind of opposition, able to execute 2 kinds of actions (hit with a stick and throw a stick), kinda reduces your options.

As opposed to casting fireballs at dragons over and over again?

As opposed to casting fireballs, lightning bolts, acid rains and 500 other ways to hamper the opposition and boost my own ranks. Against something that can fly, or burrow, or turn invisible, or doesn't care about being caught in a fireball blast to begin with.

Again, your problem isn't really with the lack of monsters, it's the encounter design. If the battle with dragons only requires you to cast fireballs repeatedly to win, you get the exact same battle had you swap the dragons with rats, and fireballs with swords.

Way to miss the point.

 

[grotsnik]

Oh, wow. Some of those shots look great - good luck CrazyLoon!

 

[CrazyLoon]

- Would it be party-based? If so, how many characters would be in the party?

A small party: 1-3 followers.

- Is there mounted combat? how will you balance fighting as a cavalryman vis-a-vis fighting as infantry? Any particular pluses and maluses?
ie. You can be dehorsed by polearms which will but be much more effective against archers/light infantry
Also, would you include mounted archery? How will you balance it compared to other fighting styles?

12th Century China wouldn't be complete without it. Luckily, you won't have to fight them alone, seeing that mounted archers and heavy cavalry are the tanks of medieval warfare. In terms of advantages, cavalrymen are very mobile. They can easily circle around infantry opponents to break their formulation, and gain bonus defense against short weapons(one handed swords, axes, and such). Mounted archers are excellent at fighting in open areas, due to superior mobility and range. Heavy cavalry is the most powerful enemy you can face in the game, with both high damage and defense, particularly the Jurchen heavy cavalry with twin layers of lamellar armour.

There will be "mini battles," sort of like boss fights, in the game, where you'll be able to lead a band of maybe 20-30 people against another band, for example. You'll be able to allocate tactics, position your men, set up traps(or avoid them if you are on offense, the skill Traps is very useful here either case), time your cavalry charge, just to name some of the things you can do. Regular fights are dressed up Fallout combat like Tzaero said.

Horses and camels are also used for transportation purposes in the game.

- You mention that there would be absolutely no 'magical' elements within your game. How would you integrate religions (Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism) given the game's realistic premise? Would you include them as factions/quests or do you have some other ideas to flesh them out more?

Real actual magic, as in transforming a duck into a chicken, is different from mysticism and superstition.

- What about historical characters? For example, Temujin, would you put him in the game as npc, with his own faction, goals and motivations or merely mention him to flesh out the
lore/setting of the game?

Temujin is only 5 years old in 1167. But other historical figures? Yes.

Ins't that a DAMN BIG game area? Travelling all that land-area would tak a good time. Not to mention you would have to omit a lot of interesting places to show other interesting places. Also, unless you make a GIGANTIC game, the map will seem empty. Arcanum springs to mind, the whole map would've made much more sense if the whole game was undertook at the Southern part of the continent, up north until the mountains. Game map in Arcanum seems empty, like the continent is a big frontier, which is strange when you compare it to Tarant.

Northern China is where most of the map locations are. The game and the storyline revolves around the Tangut Kingdom, hence the game title. Other areas, like Manchuria and Siberia, although being very big masses of land, are very sparsely populated, with very little people. So actual number of map locations in those areas is not that many. There are only a few locations you can reach in Western Liao Empire(Kazakhstan). Some map locations are caves/dungeons with little to no NPC. The game really isn't as big as it appears to be.

 

[CrazyLoon]

Ins't that too small? I think sticking with Fallout 2 numbers is a good idea - Party numbers half of charisma, so a max charisma character should go with 5 followers whereas a 2 charisma only has a additional buddy. Hell, in Fallout 2 NPCs are the main reason to pump or take out CH points.
Also, more party members more interesting combinations and situations.

I meant to say without factoring in Charisma and knowledge of other languages. If your character knows only his native language and has average Charisma, then 1-3 followers: 2 followers for 4 points of CHA, and maybe 1 special follower that bypasses CHA check. If your character is very charismatically inclined and knows several languages, 5 is definitely possible.

Are we going to be able to fight mounted? If yes, what will stop the player from say, making a entire party of mounted archer warriors and kiting & shooting his way to victory?

I need to clarify, there are two types of combat. One is the normal combat, where you and your companions fight together against some opponents in Fallout fashion. Two is the big fights, where you gather, or be handed some troops, and then design and execute your battle plan. These troops won't follow you as companions, and are only available in the given scenario(s). Cavalry is only used and fought here.

It's entirely possible to do what you've pointed out, if you are a Mongol, if you not facing Jurchen Iron Cavalry who are virtually immune to crossbows and bows, if you are fighting in an environment that allows you to kite, and if you have all the resources needed at your disposal, ie, skilled archers who can ride horses, enough horses for everyone. What are the chances of all of these happening all at the same time?

Also, how are you going to handle out the beginning of the game? Vignettes ala AoD? Fallout starting game?

As in start location? What do you mean?

 

[Saduj]

Are we going to be able to fight mounted? If yes, what will stop the player from say, making a entire party of mounted archer warriors and kiting & shooting his way to victory?

I need to clarify, there are two types of combat. One is the normal combat, where you and your companions fight together against some opponents in Fallout fashion. Two is the big fights, where you gather, or be handed some troops, and then design and execute your battle plan. These troops won't follow you as companions, and are only available in the given scenario(s). Cavalry is only used and fought here.

It's entirely possible to do what you've pointed out, if you are a Mongol, if you not facing Jurchen Iron Cavalry who are virtually immune to crossbows and bows, if you are fighting in an environment that allows you to kite, and if you have all the resources needed at your disposal, ie, skilled archers who can ride horses, enough horses for everyone. What are the chances of all of these happening all at the same time?

How are the large battles handled from a GUI standpoint? Does it look similar to the smaller, Fallout-style fights or is it something that is totally different?

 

[Surf Solar]

I premuse it is similar to the followers system we have in other FOnline game, you alt or ctrl click somewhere on the map and can give the "mercs" orders.

 

[Saduj]

I premuse it is similar to the followers system we have in other FOnline game, you alt or ctrl click somewhere on the map and can give the "mercs" orders.

 

[hiver]

Looks p. good.

Very nicely done locations in screenshots. Village looks great, mongol yurts area too. City, winter forest, the rest.
Except maybe pure desert area... seems a bit weirdly bland,.. compared to others, perspective isnt doing it favors neither, kinda.


Any examples of a quest unfolding?

What would be the plot, generally, that sort of stuff?

 

[ghostdog]

This looks absolutley great !


Don't mind mondblut, he has brainwashed himself with D&D fiction a long time ago. It's irreversible.

 

[JarlFrank]

This looks awesome!

And I, as a historian, have long been looking for an RPG set in history. I'm really looking forward to this. And the fact that it's set in a region and era I know next to nothing about means it's going to be a very unique and exotic experience.

Wish you the best of luck with this project!

 

[Lexx]

Take an idea from Aquaria. The main menu in that game has some made up runes but when you hover the mouse over them it translates. Cool idea, and would fit this perfectly I think.

Unfortunately, the stubborn hardcoded menus don't allow that.

The gui is going to change in future, so at some point it will be doable.

 

[kaizoku]

Hello folks...

This looks fucking beautiful.
Amazing work in the art. And great direction in terms of setting and what you're trying to achieve in terms of gameplay.
I always craved for a good game set in ancient China.

IMO it would benefit from some light fantasy touches, but that is just my personal preference. Maybe the "cool" or "novelty" effects can still be achieved through the engineering and shaman (alchemy?) skills.

The language system sounds pretty nice. But I wonder how much work it will add... its implementation cost doesn't grow linearly (in terms of number of language fluency levels), but it will create some overhead.


After you finish the demo you should start a KS --- oh wait
Well, it's your call.

I you for being able to work diligently on a project of this quality for 2 years and still release for free.

BTW, how will you handle battles involving 40 or more characters?
Have you tested that idea yet?



You may also want to post about your project in NMA forums.

 

[Tigranes]

Looks amazing, and I'm game for any testing, full version appreciation, etc. as things roll on. Please do let us know as you progress.