The New DOOM Thread (2016)

[CyberP]

Haven't played a FPS in a while, but doesn't mouse handle the turning too?

It can factor into it, but ideally you want both movement and aiming to be entirely independent of each other so you can aim in any direction and move in another.

Varying degrees of movement speed don't matter in DOOM as we know it.

True, but Doom 1/2 are a bit of an anomaly. It's like the only FPS with crazy high speeds (and the PS1 port in the mid '90s has the same speeds too, just for the record).
Other notable fast FPS (build engine games, RTCW, Quake) are not on Doom's level, and again most had faithful ports to console too.

 

[Lyric Suite]

and console shooters before the decline used to be fast paced also?

Which shooters?

 

[Drax]

Just fucking do the Doom I and II levels with a decent, modern engine. How fucking hard is that?

 

[pippin]

Just fucking do the Doom I and II levels with a decent, modern engine. How fucking hard is that?

It's hard because you lost your will to live, and now you only can produce vr shit for facebook or cook books for rpgs

 

[CyberP]

Which shooters?

Again, examples: Alien Trilogy, Exhumed/Powerslave, Turok, the Duke Nukem console exclusives (not quite so fast paced, but certainly not popamole), as well as many, many ports of PC classics (Doom, Quake, DN3D, Wolf 3D, RTCW, Half-Life).

And before you react with "lol x, y and z games are PC too", no, they were console ports; released on console first unless otherwise specified.

Why be skeptical? On average console games are faster paced, what with all the "arcade-y" games taking residence, and the intellectual-ish slow ass RPGs, strategy games and so on mostly being home to PC.

The shit we see now, it is modern industry-wide sellout design. The decline, it is universal. All platforms, nearly all genres.
The least affected by the decline is probably the NDS in all honesty, because the graphics still aren't very good so gameplay must be the forefront to compensate, or something. Speculation really as to why.

 

[Drax]

Just fucking do the Doom I and II levels with a decent, modern engine. How fucking hard is that?

It's hard because you lost your will to live, and now you only can produce vr shit for facebook or cook books for rpgs

Still bro, it hurts.

 

[ZoddGuts]

That demo look so slow and somewhat scripted as well, ended up boring me. Now Shadow Warrior 2 on the other hand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSeBcZR2pI8

That's how you show off a demo of your game.

 

[CyberP]

"Shadow Warrior 2"

Procedural generation of level design and arena-based gameplay. It can fuck off. It isn't Shadow Warrior. Shadow Warrior (1997), like most old FPS, had fantastic level design. Not Serious Sam-style mindless slaying of mobs in a flat plane arena.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Why be skeptical? On average console games are faster paced, what with all the "arcade-y" games taking residence, and the intellectual-ish slow ass RPGs, strategy games and so on mostly being home to PC.

The issue isn't console games in general (you are really shit at this sophistry thing, you know that?), but console shooters specifically (or shooters on consoles rather). And it is all about the fact controllers aren't made to play those type of games. Case in point:



Just look at that amazing fast paced action. Meanwhile on the PC:



So no, it isn't about the "decline", but the fact most PC games weren't meant to be played on consoles, but since that's where the money is (presumably) those games had to be mutilated to fit an alien gaming environment, with all the dire consequences we see with our very eyes, thank you very much.

 

[CyberP]

Using random videos as the basis of your argument is dumb. You're not considering that A) player skill is variable, the player in the Alien Trilogy video probably isn't even using run input (I'm not going to waste my time watching to confirm) and B) you've used entirely different games as a comparison, one being an old Doom-style shooter where aiming is on one axis, weapons are slow and sluggish in comparison, rocket jumping isn't a thing....just dumb. You're not going to convince me, as someone who plays with numerous input types and has since a toddler, rocket jumping six ways up the hill blindfolded.

If I could be bothered, I'd make a video where I play Doom (w/ source port) using both a pad and M+K on differing occasions. It would take a sharp eye to notice real difference.

Edit: If you weren't such a dumbass, you'd have used Doom (PC) vs Doom (PS1), or Alien Trilogy (PC) vs Alien Trilogy (PS1), but again, player skill is variable so it is futile.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Edit: If you weren't such a dumbass, you'd have used Doom (PC) vs Doom (PS1), or Alien Trilogy (PC) vs Alien Trilogy (PS1),

Lord, I remember playing Alien Trilogy on the PC. It actually looks uglier on the PC than the PS1 (CRT monitor displaying graphics made for TV never ends well) and plays at about the same slow rate, complete with the "I just finished climbing some stairs and now I'm leaping in the air for no reason" quirk of the engine they used. It was boring all the way through.

That's just anecdotal evidence for one game, though.

 

[Lyric Suite]

B) you've used entirely different games as a comparison, one being an old Doom-style shooter where aiming is on one axis, weapons are slow and sluggish in comparison, rocket jumping isn't a thing....just dumb.

That's a load of shit, since that game plays exactly like modern shooters. But all i did was follow the shit you yourself have mentioned. Here's another one:



Wow, look at that fast paced gameplay and totally not awkward camera movement.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Quake 1 on console:



Totally the same shit.

 

[Nikaido]

There's a reason why all plans to allow PC and Xbox 360 gamers to play together were thrown in the trash. Something that eludes the motherfucker that is polluting this thread. Basically, even noobs, when they had a keyboard and mouse, could punk your average, more experienced consoletard playing on a pad. That's just how FPS are.
http://games.slashdot.org/story/10/07/23/2127253/pc-gamers-too-good-for-consoles-gamers
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102261-Rumor-Microsoft-Killed-PC-Xbox-Cross-Platform-Play

There's also a reason why most console FPS have aim assist. Fucking tard.

 

[CyberP]

That's a load of shit, since that game plays exactly like modern shooters. .

I don't even...

Continuing to post random videos as a basis for dumb arguments, again.

There's also a reason why most console FPS have aim assist. Fucking tard.

Another thing that originated on PC, and is an option in many games both PC & console. Addtionally, there are many console shooters with no aim assist at all.
Ignorance is strong, typically so.

There's a reason why all plans to allow PC and Xbox 360 gamers to play together were thrown in the trash. Something that eludes the motherfucker that is polluting this thread. Basically, even noobs, when they had a keyboard and mouse, could punk your average, more experienced consoletard playing on a pad.

If you had reading comprehension you'd notice I stated in, what, my second post in this thread that mouse is (a little) more precise than pads. That doesn't suddenly mean console shooters must be snail-paced games, and all things considered is inferior.

LASTLY, dumbfucks, if you were such fucktard enthusiasts you'd know that DOOM, possibly the fastest shooter, was designed for keyboards only. you know, when mouse in FPS wasn't even a thing? But no, apparently reasonably precise console sticks can't handle anything but PC-born snail-pace games like Colla Dooty and Counterstrike.
Like I said, these things are conveniently forgotten.

I'll leave you to your egos, ignorance and retardation. Come back when you are able to engage me without being retarded.

 

[CyberP]

Meh. Ignorant shitheads really get on my tits. If you're going to bash something make sure you're informed first. I know it is hard, there's an autist in all of us, but you got to dig around, gain some experience, build an informed opinion...and not on Youtube

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

I completed Quake 2 numerous times, but it was a completely dull experience after the greatness of the first one.

Try Q2: The Reckoning aka best official mappack everthen, MUCH better and harder than original game, it not only adds the additional weapons (Ion Ripper!) but also rebalances the gameplay (generic dudes are now able to survive a shotgun shot from a close range, they're armed with e.g. lasers, gladiator has phalanx instead of railgun etc).

 

[Average Manatee]

Is there any other tag we can give CyberP? Pure and clear dumbfuck.

 

[Israfael]

Why even there is a concern with game pacing? It's only important in conjunction with weapons speed and lethality. For example, TF2 is a very slow competitive game (probably the slowest), but there's still a much larger room for skills and tactics than in most popamole and non-popamole shooters thanks to the fact how the weapons work (aka they are slow too!) and how easy it is to die without teammates' support. For example (shame they nerfed it twice or 3 times already, it was a truly weapon, especially against proficient pyros in pubs who had much butthurt to see the icepick going through their faces),

 

[shihonage]

LASTLY, dumbfucks, if you were such fucktard enthusiasts you'd know that DOOM, possibly the fastest shooter, was designed for keyboards only. you know, when mouse in FPS wasn't even a thing? But no, apparently reasonably precise console sticks can't handle anything but PC-born snail-pace games like Colla Dooty and Counterstrike.
Like I said, these things are conveniently forgotten.

This is mostly true. I started off playing Doom on keyboard-only, as did most people, even if it did come with a mouse control option.

However, unlike all of modern console FPS, it had no vertical aim.

If modern console shooters abandon vertical aim & have an option where you only press buttons and never have to use sticks, they'd be just as controllable as Doom was when I started playing it. I pressed strafe and directional keys together, to spin faster.

Of course, when I was competitively "fragging" on DWANGO, I started to get obliterated when the mouse became popular, and thus, was forced to learn it.

So, no matter what, the non-mouse control methid is inferior.

 

[Lyric Suite]

His strawman arguments are sure fun. The fact we all played Doom using the keyboard only is not something we have "conveniently forgotten". That shit is just irrelevant to the argument, which is that mouse control is infinitely better for those games than gamepad control, and the only reason Doom was designed with the keyboard in mind is that the genre was still in its infancy and a lot of things still needed to be developed. In fact, i still remember what a revelation it was for me to discover mouselook in Quake. It felt so natural and obvious that i couldn't even believe i had even tried playing the game with the keyboard up to that point. And Doom itself is MUCH easier if you use a mouse as well, even without the vertical axis. This is pretty much what Doom "back in the day" was like for most people:



Slow and awkward. Can you play the game like that? Sure, much like you can play Doom on a console in the same way:



Does this "proove" that gamepads are just as good for shooters as mouse + keyboard? Hardly. And like shihonage said, this type of archaic way to play Doom wasn't even very competitive back in the day.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Why even there is a concern with game pacing? It's only important in conjunction with weapons speed and lethality. For example, TF2 is a very slow competitive game (probably the slowest), but there's still a much larger room for skills and tactics than in most popamole and non-popamole shooters thanks to the fact how the weapons work (aka they are slow too!) and how easy it is to die without teammates' support. For example (shame they nerfed it twice or 3 times already, it was a truly weapon, especially against proficient pyros in pubs who had much butthurt to see the icepick going through their faces),

Speed is only one part of the argument. The other is accuracy. The introduction of the vertical axis in particular is why modern console shooters HAVE to be so slow. This is another little "fact" Cyberfag has conveniently "forgotten".

 

[34scell]

Goldeneye has a faster pace and better level design than most pc shooters.

 

[Trodat]

Goldeneye has a faster pace and better level design than most pc shooters.

Most PC shooters are shit so that shouldn't be impossible to achieve.

Doesn't change the fact that GOOD PC shooters are light years ahead of anything-console.

 

[34scell]

Goldeneye has a faster pace and better level design than most pc shooters.

Most PC shooters are shit so that shouldn't be impossible to achieve.

Doesn't change the fact that GOOD PC shooters are light years ahead of anything-console.

Which PC shooters are so good? I can't think of many that offer proper levels and varied objectives to complete (unless you count Deus Ex and tactical shooters). I found No One Lives Forever and Return to Castle Wolfenstein inferior to Goldeneye/Perfect Dark.