Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[jaybirdy]

But that's weird because WoX has the superior exploration, not 6. Bigger isn't always better

 

[octavius]

But that's weird because WoX has the superior exploration, not 6. Bigger isn't always better

You can't fly in WoX.

 

[madrigal]

As fun as raining down stars on dragons is, flying is way overpowered and detracts from exploration.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You can't fly in WoX.

B-but

 

[jaybirdy]

For all my time lurking the Codex, I've always wanted to debate octavius and Sceptic on M&M so I'm going to seize on this opportunity.

But exploration wise it was the best. And exploration was what the M&M games were about, or rather exploration was what the M&M games did much better than other turn based CRPGs.

It's true that exploration is M&M's calling card. It's the reason why it's not "Wizardry for babbies" as some would have it. They all do exploration incredibly well, but WoX (and 3) do it the best. The reason for that is because almost every tile is meaningful in some way, both in the overworld and in dungeons. In the overworld, it could be an NPC quest-giver or someone selling/giving away a super effective spell or skill, holes filled with treasure, people asking you riddles, caravans, fountains, etc. It's even better in dungeons, as they are stuffed with barrels with stat increases, secret doors, traps, puzzles, etc. Most of this stuff is in M&M6 too, but what sets WoX apart is actually the frequency of finding all this content. All the copious amounts of stuff is littered all over the place in WoX, giving you one serotonin release after another in quick succession, whereas 6 has a lot of down time. Not only that but WoX is not afraid of wrecking the balance and giving away huge XP rewards and stat increases--there's nothing better than getting a million XP out of nowhere. (Finding the most powerful plate armor long before you should comes close though, so the credit goes to 6 there.)

Another facet of enjoyment that you get from WoX's exploration is the way the skill system works. At the start, you can't enter a lot of tiles because you don't have the skill, so it's left there, tantalizing, until you get swimming, mountaineering, whatever. It's pretty much Metroid, and there's a reason why that subgenre is so addicting. It's a great feeling of accomplishment to reach areas that you couldn't before.

The loot system was also excellent.

No doubt. This is where M&M6-8 really shine, whereas it's M&M3-5's biggest weakness. The loot system in the latter is pretty much just "[modifying adjective] [armor piece or weapon]" It wasn't very exciting.

The inventory also deserves a mention. Fantastic in 6, terrible in WoX.

The bastardized combat system was weird, but didn't detract from enjoyment.

I beg to differ. I say the combat almost wrecks M&M6, it's so bad. Combat is clearly not M&M's strong suit, so why is so much time spent on fighting in M&M6? The combat was simple in M&M3-5 too, but you can get through fights much, much quicker. Combat was more like another wrinkle of gameplay for WoX; a vehicle to use your latest gear and spells, and another way to feel accomplishment. WoX wasn't about tactical combat, but it knew that, and so it took the backseat. In the case of M&M6, combat is front-and-center, and it's shit. It has all the tactical depth of M&M3-5 (read: not a whole helluva lot) but there are literally hundreds of enemies and all their HP is bloated. So a lot of time spent playing M&M6 is spamming the meteor and starburst spells, and then backtracking to a temple/inn. It's a serious flaw.

An easy fix for that combat is to simply lower the HP of enemies. If you're going to have tons and tons of enemies, make them quick and easy to kill; that way you feel like the shit when you're mowing down a literal army of them. The way it is now, you're spending more time in combat than you should for a M&M. It also hampers exploration--it's like a JRPG where you almost don't want to check around that mountain because there might be a ton of boring fighting behind it.

But the biggest hurdle for me to replay it is those retarded character portraits.

It doesn't help that all the people are ugly as hell. I did get used to them though, and I wouldn't trade them out for something different. Using real people as character portraits feels like a real Might and Magic thing to do.

 

[DavidBVal]

I don't know much compared to other posters here, because I only played III and VI, but I agree with Jaybirdy regarding exploration. In III you knew there could be exceptional rewards hidden virtually anywhere, and they managed to give them often without breaking the game. The result was that you scanned the maps like crazy, in search of secrets. In VI, I didn't feel the same thrill, as truly remarkable findings are not as frequent.

 

[Anthedon]

How is VII in comparison to VI when it comes to HP bloat and combat frequency? I'm nearly done with VI (I think) and am looking at what to play next, WoX or VII.

 

[octavius]

How is VII in comparison to VI when it comes to HP bloat and combat frequency? I'm nearly done with VI (I think) and am looking at what to play next, WoX or VII.

Everything is smaller in VII.

 

[Sceptic]

Everything is smaller in VII.

But the character system is better.

Jaybirdy's post deserves more time than I can give right now. I'll be back.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Damned Registrations]

Just a guess, but try hitting the F1-4 buttons to select characters? Was the keys they used for that shit in the old games.

 

[Snorkack]

For me, using VirtualBox + Win98 worked like a charm. It doesn't solve the issue that you're playing Might&Magic IX, tho.

EDIT: that was with the original disk. Not sure about the gog installer.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Not exactly my virgin venture into the land of blobbers (that would be Mordor: The Depths of Dejenol, which I haven't gotten too far in). I think I like the genre.
Strong points, IMHO, were: exploration, early game loot, and that "high" experienced whenever big XP/gold rewards showed up. Also the game is just pretty and colourful. The combat isn't particularly engaging, but you never really "waste time" on it.
Weak points: after a while, I just discarded everything that wasn't Obsidian; as the game goes, everything goes kinda streamlined. The game really could use some better documentation, because it's a chore to compare items without some sort of a guide/reference card, and the manual wasn't very helpful. I turned off the soundtrack pretty soon though.
I'm a pussyfaggot points: I fought Terminators with closed eyes because I'm scared of the ERADICATED status face, particularly the way it just kinda jumps out of nowhere. Quite a few monsters got me a little jumpy, in fact. Also, I savescummed a shitload to dodge bad chests, agings and eradications. Somehow I got it into my head that aging will fuck me up really badly if I allow it to, and I always expected mass curse/death out of every corner, especially after dropping a few huts on my head.

Somehow I managed to fuck up the ending. I saved the game after overinflating levels on my sorcerer. 120 levels on a mage is great, 160 turns out to be so much that I can't power shield everyone anymore without losing all the juice I need for Imploding Terminators. I tried fucking around in the capsule room, then I got my stats drained to 3's in the final dungeon and then I just bled it out to the capsule and punched in the initialization code.

I ended up ignoring the Greywind/Blackwind sidequest and I think the Athea and/or pirate queen (?) one, because with everyone's levels being 100+ and encounters becoming a non-issue, I just kinda didn't want the game to overstay its welcome. I actually ended up doing a lot of stuff out of order; I was idly fucking around on the Isle of Fire, killing Hydras and Devils with Well of Experience/Magic cheese, going giddy with the massive level-up jumps, and only then I remembered I was supposed to look for some Hologram Key Cards or some shit, in some dungeons way back on the first island that I never visited. As such, the Hologram Key Card dungeons were short, 30-minute ventures where I just kind of spammed A and Implosion. Whoops. Fuck Maze From Hell, though, and its spooky eradicating chests; again, it was mostly rather tedious: when I met my first Minotaurs, I already had a 90+ level sorcerer. I'll chalk it up to inexperience, since I guess I basically pulled this game's FO2-style Navarro exploit shenanigans by accident. Didn't end up imparing my enjoyment, though. The exploration got me hooked in ways I never thought possible; every tile seemed important and I enjoyed the whole "adventure!!" thing when hopping islands and trying out some daring fights. Hunting Great Hydras and all that. It was magical. And mighty. And I kind of expect most games to sort of peter out at the ending. Which is another plus for M&M3 being rather short overall.

I don't feel "drained", so maybe I'll jump to WoX right away. Or mix it up with some Ultima 7. Thanks Codex.

 

[Lhynn]

anyone managed to make mm9 run on windows 10? gog version

Whatever compatibility options I try I might be able to start the game, but im never able to edit my party members beside 1st character. Portraits are not clickable and I dont see other other option to shift between them(there is a possibility that im retarded and I missed something).
Googling might magic 9 and windows 10 together is nightmare and I was not able to find solution

why would you do that to yourself? for 9 of all M&M

 

[SausageInYourFace]

I turned off the soundtrack pretty soon though.

Isles of Terra and Xeen have an absolutely wonderful soundtrack.

I'm a pussyfaggot points: I fought Terminators with closed eyes because I'm scared of the ERADICATED status face, particularly the way it just kinda jumps out of nowhere. Quite a few monsters got me a little jumpy, in fact.

lolwat, are we perhaps a bit on the faint-hearted side, eh?


Anyway, congratz for finishing. I'd say play something else for a while, you can always look forward to Xeen and its a pretty big game so you may wanna refresh yourself.

 

[Gozma]

Hold off on Xeen or only do Clouds and ignore the Darkside content, because doing even a little bit of Darkside will put you in the way-too-overpowered mode you didn't like in 3 for all of Clouds. I had a good time with Darkside by restarting fresh instead of using my Clouds party and it was fine... so I guess the whole "World" gimmick I didn't like.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Isles of Terra and Xeen have an absolutely wonderful soundtrack.
.

It's great, just repetitive. After a while of the same tune in town, dungeon and everywhere, I just turned it off because it kind of became mind-numbing.

lolwat, are we perhaps a bit on the faint-hearted side, eh?

Very much so. I get easily startled.

 

[Infinitron]

Might and Magic VI, VII, and VIII Unofficial v2.0 Patches Released

 

[Damned Registrations]

Hold off on Xeen or only do Clouds and ignore the Darkside content, because doing even a little bit of Darkside will put you in the way-too-overpowered mode you didn't like in 3 for all of Clouds. I had a good time with Darkside by restarting fresh instead of using my Clouds party and it was fine... so I guess the whole "World" gimmick I didn't like.

Also, there's a special weapon you'll get at the end of Clouds (you'll know it when you see it)... I would suggest not using it except the fight it's needed for, it's incredibly overpowered.

 

[Scroo]

[-] Save game failure on some computers. Actually caused by a bug of some system software, not the game itself.

Great! Finally! This really completely killed the fun for me, now I might finally be able to finish M&M VI

 

[baturinsky]

naged to fuck up the ending. I saved the game after overinflating levels on my sorcerer. 120 levels on a mage is great, 160 turns out to be so much that I can't power shield everyone anymore without losing all the juice I need for Imploding Terminators.

Anchor, Town Portal to the well, sleep, buff up, drink, teleport back. If you have another Lloyd caster, you can pick some fountain buff along the way. Isn't this standard Xeen routine?

 

[Damned Registrations]

Pretty much. Mind you, in Xeen I seem to recall there being a spell that just power shields and does a bunch of other buffs to the party for a flat cost? Day of Magic or some shit? In Terra you have to cast all the buffs individually, per party member. Pretty sure the scale is just linear though, same as SP/level. So not sure why gaining levels would leave you with less SP for implosion. If anything you should have a bit more left over, since implosion is a flat cost. Maybe he lost some int or something from some status effect and didn't notice, that is the real decider on how much scaled casting you can do.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Bros I realized I'm retarded. I took a seat on the Ultimate Adventurer chairs in Tomb of Terror and failed to pay attention to what I'm doing because it was the last thing I did before going to the final pyramid. That reduced Kastore's int to 3 and that's why I had like 2400 spellpoints on a 160 level mage. And Power Shield's cost scaled, so I couldn't do much more after casting 6 of them. I guess I could have fixed that with some crystal-scumming in Arachnoid Cavern, but oh well.

Started a WoX party. Human Paladin, 1/2-Orc Barbarian, Human Archer, Gnome Cleric, Elf Sorcerer and Dwarf Ninja. It's great; the "more of the same" feeling immediately kicked in.

 

[Nael]

Bros I realized I'm retarded. I took a seat on the Ultimate Adventurer chairs in Tomb of Terror and failed to pay attention to what I'm doing because it was the last thing I did before going to the final pyramid. That reduced Kastore's int to 3 and that's why I had like 2400 spellpoints on a 160 level mage. And Power Shield's cost scaled, so I couldn't do much more after casting 6 of them. I guess I could have fixed that with some crystal-scumming in Arachnoid Cavern, but oh well.

Started a WoX party. Human Paladin, 1/2-Orc Barbarian, Human Archer, Gnome Cleric, Elf Sorcerer and Dwarf Ninja. It's great; the "more of the same" feeling immediately kicked in.

Not to be a min/maxer but having a Paladin and a Cleric in the same party is a waste IMO. I would go with a Knight over the Paladin.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Not to be a min/maxer but having a Paladin and a Cleric in the same party is a waste IMO. I would go with a Knight over the Paladin.

I made my frontman a paladin woman reminiscent of Joan of Arc, so that was mostly flavor points. Knights don't seem wholly interesting for anything other than their ability to wield everything, but I don't know if Paladins miss out much on anything that isn't Obsidian Wakizashi or some other Ninja-only weapon - they didn't in MM3. Aside from that, an emergency heal or Town Portal can be very useful or at least convenient, IMHO. I'll be fine.

On other note - MM3 had way nicer character portraits. Dwarves look particularly alien, with none of them sporting any beards, and all the elven portraits look very sameish (even though I like the whole otherwordly blue skin thing).