Might and Magic The Might and Magic Discussion Thread

[Pope Amole II]

adding the few nonhuman races to the mix greatly improved on things for me, not to mention a few new classes to explore and so forth.

That's an illusion - there's nigh-zero difference between the races and new classes also give pretty much nothing meaningful to explore.

Also you are kind of wrong here anyway as Druids are the only class who can Grandmaster Alchemy to make some of the best potions and Rogues and Rangers can be used effectively, lacking little in comparison with other classes

Master Alchemy is all that it takes to make actually best potions, GM is worthless because black potions are worthless. And rogues & rangers, compared to the monks & knights, gain twice less damage from their skills and don't have decent artifact weapon options, not to mention that they're much less survivable. That's not lacking little. Besides, your difficulty argument doesn't matter much because M&M VI-VIII are all so easy they're almost casual. You can beat them with any kind of party build, it's more of a question of time that it takes.

WTF is "God mode" and why would someone play with that on?!

Divine Intervention, Sacrifice, Master Healer - anything of those. Even lloyd's beacon counts, tbh, it's just that the previous two are even more convenient.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

That's an illusion - there's nigh-zero difference between the races and new classes also give pretty much nothing meaningful to explore.

Yes, but an important one. While I understand the vintage number crunching approach to CRPG, well represented here by our own infamous Mondblut, I tend to lean more on the half larp/half crunch side, especially when the game is easy, like here, and doesn't need any serious number crunching. Having different races and new classes may not have improved the party's power or mechanics, but it did improve the party's flair after the blandness of VI and it's just as important in long assed games like this one.

 

[SkeleTony]

That's an illusion - there's nigh-zero difference between the races and new classes also give pretty much nothing meaningful to explore.

In YOUR opinion I think you meant to say. I could go on and on about the differences between the races, from the stats at character creation to the items won in the Arcomage tournament (one for each race but limited to specific classes). Not to mention that even if what you said were true, it would still be a lot more fun IMO to play a Goblin than to play yet another human/elf.

Master Alchemy is all that it takes to make actually best potions, GM is worthless because black potions are worthless.

Correct me if I am mistaken in my memory but don't the black potions give permanent stat increases of like 50 points?

And rogues & rangers, compared to the monks & knights, gain twice less damage from their skills and don't have decent artifact weapon options, not to mention that they're much less survivable. That's not lacking little. Besides, your difficulty argument doesn't matter much because M&M VI-VIII are all so easy they're almost casual. You can beat them with any kind of party build, it's more of a question of time that it takes.

As are most CRPGs, from Baldur's gate to Natuk. For every 'Wizardry 7' or 'Nahlakh' there are two dozen easy to beat RPGs. I personally do not seek out 'challenge' much in CRPGs because I am one of those gamers who just plays to have fun, explore and kill time. Never finished Wizardry 7 or Nahlakh but I have beaten M&M 7 and Natuk alone scores of times.

Divine Intervention, Sacrifice, Master Healer - anything of those. Even lloyd's beacon counts, tbh, it's just that the previous two are even more convenient.

I don't remember if I ever used Divine Intervention and I know I never used Sacrifice so maybe these are overpowered to one extent or the other but it did not effect me so...*shrug*.

 

[Lord Andre]

Unfortunately, there are ways to get the needed black potions without alchemy, save-scum is not neccesarry, just keep some spare cash and check the stores when passing through towns, not to mention you will loot quite a few of those.

I personally prefer MM7 to MM6 because it is a tighter, shorter experience. Every now and then I might get the urge to do a run through of 7, but I would never replay 6 because for me it turns into a slog half way through.

The most fun I have in these games is by braking expected area/dungeon progression and trying to tackle stuff that is way above my level, than limping out of the dungeon clutching that bloody artifact like a trophy.
Once I'm strong enough to take on almost anything, I get bored and it's just a matter of time before I drop the game.

 

[Pope Amole II]

I tend to lean more on the half larp/half crunch side, especially when the game is easy, like here, and doesn't need any serious number crunching.

It still needs number crunching because sure, it's easy but at the same time it's really grindy without optimized party. And I'm not sure why would you willfully waste extra time on repetitive trashmob encounters when you can accelerate them one way or another. But we've already had this argument before so whatever.

but it did improve the party's flair after the blandness of VI and it's just as important in long assed games like this one.

Nope. The VI is actually more complex than VII in terms of party development because more choices actually matter. All VII does is introducing decoys that make it look more complex but, well, that's LARPing.

In YOUR opinion I think you meant to say. I could go on and on about the differences between the races, from the stats at character creation to the items won in the Arcomage tournament (one for each race but limited to specific classes).

I don't deal in opinions, facts only. And the fact is you don't really understand the mechanics and realities of this game, else you wouldn't even mention stat difference and arcomage items.

Correct me if I am mistaken in my memory but don't the black potions give permanent stat increases of like 50 points?

The question is - what do those 50 points of permanent increase give to you? That's even outside of Pit/Celeste shops making GM Alchemy obsolete anyways.

 

[SkeleTony]

Nope. The VI is actually more complex than VII in terms of party development because more choices actually matter. All VII does is introducing decoys that make it look more complex but, well, that's LARPing.

False all around.

I don't deal in opinions, facts only. And the fact is you don't really understand the mechanics and realities of this game, else you wouldn't even mention stat difference and arcomage items.

False again. You are spouting nothing but your opinions based on how YOU play the game. You seem to be getting kind of wacky with anger or something here so I will drop out of this debate after this last post.

The question is - what do those 50 points of permanent increase give to you?

50 points of stat increases. If you are arguing that the designers did not put enough into stats and their effects in game then I won't disagree but the same applies to VI as well in that case.

That's even outside of Pit/Celeste shops making GM Alchemy obsolete anyways.

I can't contest this point and truth to tell I do not think I have ever tried using a druid or ranger anyway so...*shrug*

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Once I'm strong enough to take on almost anything, I get bored and it's just a matter of time before I drop the game.

That's precisely the point which differenciates the two kinds of M&M players. Some, like you and me, get all limp, lose motivation and stop (re)playing when they get uberpowerful, others finally get their hard-on at this very moment, and for them, that's when the game really starts.

 

[Why.jpeg]

Does anyone know if hireling stack? (ie if I have two spell masters I get +8 to all magic skills as opposed to the +4 you get from having just one)

 

[Pope Amole II]

Does anyone know if hireling stack? (ie if I have two spell masters I get +8 to all magic skills as opposed to the +4 you get from having just one)

The exact ones - no. However, the ones with the similar abilities do - so while 2x spell masters won't give you +8, a spell master + mystic combo will give you +7 (which is the strongest hireling combo for the majority of party setups).

 

[Why.jpeg]

Motherfucking Devil's Outpost.



Only Lords quest I havent done yet and I am being slapped around like a spare Mormon kid by these Devils. Worst part is I can kill some of them before I run out of SP/get most of my party knocked out and forced to flee so I could cheese it by killing a few and spamming rests outside but I hate that shit. I will persevere a I am sure there is yet a 40 pound box of rape with my name on it somewhere in Enroth.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I'm starting Isles of Terra. Is there any point in making a custom party? The basic party seems to be balanced and has very high stats which would take me ages to roll.

 

[octavius]

I'm starting Isles of Terra. Is there any point in making a custom party?

Not really. Unless you want to LARP by naming your characters yourself.

 

[Monstrous Bat]

IIRC none of the members in the default party is capable of casting Water Walk, which is pretty much required for completing the game. You could solve this problem by hiring a druid or ranger though.

Also, starting attributes are pretty much only relevant in the first two or three dungeons. After that, you'll get so many stat boosts that you'd feel silly for spending so much time rerolling just for a few points of attributes.

 

[DaveO]

I'd say the party composition is more important in MM3 and the Xeen series than stats. You can get by with 18s and 19s, although I'd recommend three stats for all characters to be 18 or higher.
In my opinion, MM3 party should have two fighter type characters, a Ranger(Druid is not as effective), a cleric and a sorcerer. Given how important spells become much later in MM3, you probably should have an Archer but it is not required.
Xeen(not including Swords) needs a Ninja in the group since you can't gain Thievery any other way(unlike in MM3).

 

[Sceptic]

I'm starting Isles of Terra. Is there any point in making a custom party? The basic party seems to be balanced and has very high stats which would take me ages to roll.

MM3 is the only game where Druids aren't Cleric/Sorcerer hybrids, and they get their own set of spells. As others have pointed out these include Water Walk, which is essential to finish the game. There are other ways to get it, either with hirelings (the Druid hireling is in the inn of the very first town) or by enchanting an item. If you want to keep the basic party then you might want to go with the Archer and Druid hirelings at the beginning and keep them all the way to the end, but you've got to watch your funds, as their daily fee gets higher as they level up. DaveO's party is perhaps the most optimal but not recommended for a first playthrough - it assumes you know where things are, indeed you know that some things actually exist (like the ability to get thieving skills on a non-robber/ninja). Just go with what you feel like and have fun. For a pretty balanced starter I'd replace the Barbarian with a Ranger, and keep the Knight and Paladin as the front line fighters. You could replace the Knight with an Archer too but that might make the start a little tougher. It's M&M though, most everything can eventually be made to work with a little creativity.

 

[Watser]

Playing M&M III myself atm as I finishe the second installment not too long ago. Being very unimpressed with the Barbarian in II, I left him out of my party and changed robber to a ninja instead. Atm my party is knight, paladin, ninja, archer, druid, cleric, sorcerer. 8th slot will probably go to another archer or sorcerer.
Having tons of fun so far, the transition to III was a bit confusing at first as I was so used to how I and II played.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Ok I think that I'll play with the starting part since they are the guys from M&M VII except I'll replace either the knight, the barbarian or the paladin with either an archer or a druid. So which atribute to they use for casting spells? Intelligence or personality?

 

[Sceptic]

IIRC they use both.

 

[DaveO]

Archers use Intelligence for spell points. Druids and Rangers use both Intelligence and Personality.

 

[Nael]

Ok I think that I'll play with the starting part since they are the guys from M&M VII except I'll replace either the knight, the barbarian or the paladin with either an archer or a druid. So which atribute to they use for casting spells? Intelligence or personality?

They use a number averaged between the two attributes to be specific. ie- 20int+30per=50pts/2=25*mod=mana points.

 

[madrigal]

I'm starting Isles of Terra. Is there any point in making a custom party? The basic party seems to be balanced and has very high stats which would take me ages to roll.

Custom party is potentially way more powerful but the game is extremely easy so it doesn't really matter.

 

[kmonster]

The default party is good enough to beat the game but there are a few weaknesses:

- No druid or ranger in the party means no access to druid spells and if you stumble across some scrolls of druid-only spells you get something like a "no one can read the scroll, it crumbles" message.
- Gnomes are inferior robbers or ninjas, dwarves get extra +5 to thievery skill and +2 HP/level

The first thing I'd do is replacing the knight (barbarians are much stronger on the long run) or the paladin with a druid or ranger (I'd take human for a compromise of HP and SP and good resistances but other races work too) for access to druid spells.
As second action I'd replace the gnome robber with a dwarf robber or ninja.

If you enjoy rolling for a long time but don't want to change much you can delete some of the characters and recreate them with the same class, race and face and better stats but attributes at creation are mainly useful in the beginning and get less important during the game.

Remember to trade equipment before you enter the inn to replace party members.

 

[Anthedon]

I started MM6 recently. The only issue so far is that ambient sounds and the music seem to cut out randomly. Is there any fix for that? Latest GrayFace patch is installed (GoG version).

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

The only issue so far is that ambient sounds and the music seem to cut out randomly. Is there any fix for that? .

I thought only music did that, but I don't think so. I remember being pissed too, but getting over it. Maybe quicksaving and reloading worked, or I just got used to it, I don't remember.

 

[Dzupakazul]

Took the default party for a spin in a virgin playthrough of M&M3. The soundtrack is good but kinda monotonous (turned it off at this point), the exploration is awesome, and I somehow managed to miss Baywatch and Wildabar and go to Swamp Town as my second town of choice. Bought Gold items there, died a lot, tried to leave the town without the assistance of a portal (and died for that), did a couple arena fights, finally found Baywatch, slapped myself silly for this oversight, dropped a couple of mud huts on my head (greatest TPK ever), keep running to temples to cure that godforsaken Insane status and/or death...



Does anybody else get jumpy when playing this game? Screamers freaked me out before I cleared out their lair because I would always run into them coming at me from beyond my line of sight (i.e. they would ambush me from the rear or side) and their faces and ZZZZZZZZORP sounds always cause me to shudder. And the Zombies, as "cartoony" as the game is supposed to be, are the creepiest Zombies I've ever seen. Also some of the status faces can be a little unsettling.

I tend to not abuse magic much; most of my combat is AAAAAAAAAAAing against trash mobs and, well... mostly AAAAAing against everything else. Kastore's spells have been kinda underwhelming (even the strongest I can find) and I mostly preserved his mana for Lloyd's Beacons and other utility. The one item of Intellect I found was a shield, and he can't use those.

So far I'm still on that first island (with access to Swamp Town, but I haven't gotten far there yet) looking for a good time.

Also don't really know how to spend gold at this point, and I've got like 70k right now.

But it's a blast, don't get me wrong.