Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Zboj Lamignat]

Original or Enhanced for IWD1? I own both but haven't played the game in well over ten years. I know the EE adds the class kits from BG2 which has me leaning toward Enhanced, but does EE do anything particularly worse than the original? Any dumb "creative liberties" like Beamdog did with Baldur's Gate?

IWD's encounters were never designed for the class kits from BG2 so the balance is off </Sawyer>, but if you think the fun of having them in outweighs that then feel free.

Meh. BG2 kits make some of the vanilla classes actually interesting/useful.

And it's not like the kits are op by default. One can make a party with guys like wizard slayer, monk, beast master etc, which would actually be more difficult than playing vanilla. Then you have the option to increase the difficulty without increased xp rewards, like in BG games.

I dislike this EE business as much as the next guy, but IWD is the only case where I can actually recommend the EE version. As long as you can accept the bugs of course, since Beamdog are incompetent hacks.

 

[McPlusle]

Shit, I forgot how merciless AD&D 2nd is to low-level characters. I'm about 2 and a half hours in on Core Rules difficulty (note: I'm playing the original version v1.42 with HoW installed, no mods) and goblins are still fully capable of wiping the floor with me. Either my party setup completely blows or I'm a dumbfuck.

Also, is it true that certain quests in Icewind Dale II are broken if you play beyond 800x600?

 

[Anthedon]

Shit, I forgot how merciless AD&D 2nd is to low-level characters. I'm about 2 and a half hours in on Core Rules difficulty (note: I'm playing the original version v1.42 with HoW installed, no mods) and goblins are still fully capable of wiping the floor with me. Either my party setup completely blows or I'm a dumbfuck.

Also, is it true that certain quests in Icewind Dale II are broken if you play beyond 800x600?

Never heard of that. Finished IWD2 a few days ago @1024x768, quests worked fine.

 

[Xeon]

Yeah, same for me. Played it and finished it at 1366x768 and didn't have any problems iirc.

 

[McPlusle]

Okay, good. I read about some quest scripts not triggering at a res higher than the default but that may have been a modded install with tweak packs and the like.

 

[Sceptic]

1. Original vanilla - pre-patch rare discs which is unbalanced'ly difficult.
I'd recommend trying them all at some point, though I've never tried no.1 due to rarity and general ignorance of anyone that doesn't even realise they have that version.

Do you know anything about this version? As in what the version number is or how to tell from the game files that this is it? I got the game quite early on but I don't think I played it until a bit later, and I had patches installed, but I'm curious to see now if this is it. I think this is the first time I hear about the balance patch, but then I never paid attention or cared. And once HoW came out I always played with that installed (and therefore the game patched), even though I don't like some of the changes the expansion patch brought.

 

[Lilura]

versions of IWD

1.06 is where it's at (pre-HoW). I've also recently updated my review of IWD:EE, for v.2.4.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

1. Original vanilla - pre-patch rare discs which is unbalanced'ly difficult.
I'd recommend trying them all at some point, though I've never tried no.1 due to rarity and general ignorance of anyone that doesn't even realise they have that version.

Do you know anything about this version? As in what the version number is or how to tell from the game files that this is it? I got the game quite early on but I don't think I played it until a bit later, and I had patches installed, but I'm curious to see now if this is it. I think this is the first time I hear about the balance patch, but then I never paid attention or cared. And once HoW came out I always played with that installed (and therefore the game patched), even though I don't like some of the changes the expansion patch brought.

I was doing some nightwork once which involved me being a receptionist for a few hours each night, so with such low customer footfall I found myself reading tons of old internet forums about IWD so threads like these stick in my memory:

http://www.sorcerers.net/community/threads/yxunomei.11012/

http://www.sorcerers.net/community/threads/big-yuan-ti.10444/

And they all seem to be around the release date of 2000, first responders to the game's release. The most notable difference is that +2 weapons are referenced as "weapon ineffective" versus Yxunomei. However, only a few days later people are reporting that +2 weapons work:

http://www.sorcerers.net/community/threads/yxunomei-or-whatever-the-hell-her-name-is.10473/

This thread suggests there were quite a few patches in the first few days of release, this thread talks about going from version 1.03 to 1.05:

http://www.sorcerers.net/community/threads/i-got-he-new-patch.10542/

The patch notes for 1.05 don't mention the +3 to +2 issue, but they do mention Yxunomei no longer moving to a different point in her lair if you leave the cave, rest and come back after starting the fight. So we're talking about the very, very early versions. As lilura states, 1.06 was pretty much the done'n'dusted version and the what is considered the original version, and that was quite soon after release. The only way to find out, as google search has precious little about version 1.03 and before, is to find early versions and test them individually.

Considering Yxunomei is still the hardest battle of the game at +2 weapons, persistently catching new players out, imagine what she was like at +3 weapon restrictions! I found more on Gmaebanshee during my reading sessions all those years ago, but Gamebanshee has dropped a nuke on its old forums, so I can't find those now, wherever that site owners have stashed their archived forums is a mystery to a quick search.

 

[octavius]

I recall Yxunomei being harder the first time I played, but not absurdely so. I have a vague recollection of being surprised at +2 weapons working second time I played.
I also remember that with Heart of Winter installed the difficulty between various parts of the game fluctuated quite a bit.

I just checked my old IWD CDs and the README.TXT says:

Version 1.00 - June 22, 2000

The CDs are from the PC BEST BUY version, so I'm surprised that the ReadMe says 1.00. I tried to install the game and check, but nothing happens when I run Setup.exe. No error message, but the task is in the background using 0% of the CPU.

 

[agris]

It would be very interesting to compare the .CRE and .BCS (AI) files of Yxunomel and other boss monsters or monsters of interest from 1.00 to 1.06, and then to the HoW patched version (1.42?). I could see a tactics AI mod that restores some of the original, punishing AI. Anyone have a link to the patches, up to 1.06?

edit: IncendiaryDevice was there any chatter about other boss or non-boss creatures changing across the patches?

 

[ghostdog]

In my last iwd playthrough with the iwd complete from gog, (totlm, how) Yxunomei needed +3 swords to be hit. I could have installed a fix from the tweaks mod though.

 

[agris]

In my last iwd playthrough with the iwd complete from gog, (totlm, how) Yxunomei needed +3 swords to be hit. I could have installed a fix from the tweaks mod though.

But did HoW introduce a greater population of +3 weapons into the base game?

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

It would be very interesting to compare the .CRE and .BCS (AI) files of Yxunomel and other boss monsters or monsters of interest from 1.00 to 1.06, and then to the HoW patched version (1.42?). I could see a tactics AI mod that restores some of the original, punishing AI. Anyone have a link to the patches, up to 1.06?

edit: IncendiaryDevice was there any chatter about other boss or non-boss creatures changing across the patches?

This was the only detailed link for 1.05 that I could find:

https://megagames.com/patches/icewind-dale-v-105

And 1.06:

https://megagames.com/patches/icewind-dale-patch-v106

But nothing before that.

And, not really, at least not that I remember regarding your edit. Pretty much everyone only jumps to forums about IWD when they get to Yxunomei, as evidenced by the last two people to play the game for the first time in this very thread. But yeah, I do have some vague memories of reading about other stuff. Too vague to be of use though, no detailed memory.

In my last iwd playthrough with the iwd complete from gog, (totlm, how) Yxunomei needed +3 swords to be hit. I could have installed a fix from the tweaks mod though.

Seriously? How odd. You'd think there'd be more chatter about that if that was so intentionally?

 

[ghostdog]

Seriously? How odd. You'd think there'd be more chatter about that if that was so intentionally?

It was the Auril's bane mod: Harder Yxunomei - This component will make Yxunomei immune to all weapons with less than a +3 or better enchantment.

In my last iwd playthrough with the iwd complete from gog, (totlm, how) Yxunomei needed +3 swords to be hit. I could have installed a fix from the tweaks mod though.

But did HoW introduce a greater population of +3 weapons into the base game?

Well, I actually killed her with spells and that enchanted hammer that can be stolen from the blacksmith. It bypasses weapon immunities.

BUT, auril's bane introduces a couple of +3 weapons in Kuldahar, IIRC. They were p.expensive though, so I was lucky I had stolen that hammer ahead of time, because I had forgotten all bout Yxinomei...

 

[Sceptic]

The CDs are from the PC BEST BUY version, so I'm surprised that the ReadMe says 1.00. I tried to install the game and check, but nothing happens when I run Setup.exe. No error message, but the task is in the background using 0% of the CPU.

I don't have the CDs with me but I'm pretty sure mine was the original boxed version. I made ISOs of the CDs long ago and the Readme says the same thing as yours, and the files are all from 22 or 23 June 2000, including the data files on both CDs. I just tried installing it and it installs fine, not sure if the Best Buy version uses a different installer that's not compatible with newer OS.

IncendiaryDevice send me a PM if you'd like to pursue this.

 

[Cael]

One of the things about IWD2 is that they put in that "counts as a +5 weapon" weapon enchantment. That gives even a +0 weapon the ability to hit monsters that require special weapons to hit but without the actual bonuses. Helps mitigate the problem of parties running into brick walls.

 

[Modron]

One of the things about IWD2 is that they put in that "counts as a +5 weapon" weapon enchantment. That gives even a +0 weapon the ability to hit monsters that require special weapons to hit but without the actual bonuses. Helps mitigate the problem of parties running into brick walls.

The reworking of Damage Resistance in 3.0 was one of the better changes, they changed it such that say a 4/40 dr had 10 dr per level of enchant such that a level 3 weapon would ignore 30 of that resistance and a level 2 would ignore 20 and so on. It was a nice change that made it so you could still damage enemies with a weapon of lower enchantment albeit at a reduced effectiveness. Kind of necessary change for people wanting to screw around with say something like a monk whose fists could only reach a level 3 enchantment.

 

[agris]

One of the things about IWD2 is that they put in that "counts as a +5 weapon" weapon enchantment. That gives even a +0 weapon the ability to hit monsters that require special weapons to hit but without the actual bonuses. Helps mitigate the problem of parties running into brick walls.

That existed in, at least, BG2 as well.

edit: replied to the wrong person, corrected. Also, I don't know about +5 specifically, but there were weapons that conferred less boni to damage and THAC0 than their enchantment level. Those values are completely divorced in the *.ITM files as well.

 

[Tigranes]

Yes, and plenty of mods also introduced 'fine' weapons (+1 THAC0, +0 DMG) into BG1 as well, so at this point every title has such asymmetric weapons. "Counts as x" specifically seemed to come along a bit later with specific weapons, most obviously the BG2 + monster type weapons?

 

[octavius]

And then there's "Cold Iron" weapons...

 

[Cael]

That existed in, at least, BG2 as well.

edit: replied to the wrong person, corrected. Also, I don't know about +5 specifically, but there were weapons that conferred less boni to damage and THAC0 than their enchantment level. Those values are completely divorced in the *.ITM files as well.

No. It is a new idea in IWD2. Yes, there were items that hit as per a certain enchantment level in the past, but in IWD2, there is a specific enchantment name that does it. The mechanics are the same, as you pointed out, but I was referring to the formalising of the idea via an actual enchantment (like how a flaming weapon is +1d6 fire damage, etc.). I just can't remember the name of the enchantment off the top of my head.

Still, same end result.

 

[Piotrovitz]

I've finally got past the Dragon's Eye (was always tired of the 'the evil guys you're looking for are in another dungeon' bullshit and uninstalled the game at this point) and the plot is finally starting to getting off a bit - maybe I'll get to finish IWD1 for the first time. As said before, the visuals/backgrounds are stunning and it's probably the IE game that aged with most class and dignity.

What bums me out, is there's not much challenge, even on insane and no max-hp per level. I'm by no means IE veteran (finished BG2 few times on hard, never used SCS etc), but holy fuck, it is pretty easy. Mind you, I'm not using kits from EE that trivialize the shit out of everything (DW berserker, archer, kensai/mage etc). I roll with pretty standard party of PAL, FGT, FGT, CLER/FGT, THF/FGT and WIZ. Never use summons, and Wiz is pretty much for casting haste and occasionally skull trap. Melees buffed by cleric shred everything and thf/fgt with that +APR bow is preventing any casters from doing shit.

Is HoF reasonably hard, i.e in a fun way?

I heard opinions that it requires full blown cheese-fest in order to survive, but I heard similar shit about path of the damned in PoE (advises on making Dex 3 fighter with max Con etc, lolkurwarotfl)

 

[ghostdog]

I've finally got past the Dragon's Eye (was always tired of the 'the evil guys you're looking for are in another dungeon' bullshit and uninstalled the game at this point) and the plot is finally starting to getting off a bit - maybe I'll get to finish IWD1 for the first time. As said before, the visuals/backgrounds are stunning and it's probably the IE game that aged with most class and dignity.

What bums me out, is there's not much challenge, even on insane and no max-hp per level. I'm by no means IE veteran (finished BG2 few times on hard, never used SCS etc), but holy fuck, it is pretty easy. Mind you, I'm not using kits from EE that trivialize the shit out of everything (DW berserker, archer, kensai/mage etc). I roll with pretty standard party of PAL, FGT, FGT, CLER/FGT, THF/FGT and WIZ. Never use summons, and Wiz is pretty much for casting haste and occasionally skull trap. Melees buffed by cleric shred everything and thf/fgt with that +APR bow is preventing any casters from doing shit.

Is HoF reasonably hard, i.e in a fun way?

I heard opinions that it requires full blown cheese-fest in order to survive, but I heard similar shit about path of the damned in PoE (advises on making Dex 3 fighter with max Con etc, lolkurwarotfl)

I haven't played EE but even without the BG kits the game may be easier. idk if all the rules, spells and loot has remained unchanged.

Anyway, in the original game HOF is hard but not unreasonably so. When you're at low level things will be very tough, but you'll get levels faster since you gain more XP in HOF mode. Crowd control spells and summons are very helpful. Fatigue is very brutal in the original game (much more than the BG games) and this can prevent you from spamming haste. Also enemies call their allies when they are attacked, so you can't kite them one by one. IDK if these are true in the EE version as well.

Just don't expect an intriguing storyline from IWD, it's serviceable, but the meat of the game is to make your own party and fight. In heart of winter things will get much better in the writing department though and Lonelywood is a p.interesting town.

Fun fact: The Call other plane spell and the tracking ability can provide some interesting info and lore.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Depends on your definition of fun. I had great fun min-maxing and cheesing HOF starting with a lvl 1 party.

But, that was not with EE either.

 

[ga♥]

EE makes game easier somehow even without the additions.

Take Tarnesh for example, I clearly remember him being more a pain in the ass in BG1.