Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Zboj Lamignat]

What's the level 1 Heart of Fury strategy for the first IWD? I tried that for IWD2, but it was 100% based on summons (that get scaled in HoF) and cheesy + boring as hell. Is it more interesting/challenging in IWD?

 

[Minttunator]

2. Does the widescreen mod screw up the game's interface?

The widescreen mod screws up the IWD2 interface a bit - the GUI is aligned to the left of the screen, which looks fairly ugly in my opinion, but it's not a game-breaker by any means. There's a fix for it on the Gibberlings forum:
http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=24452

 

[roshan]

What are your favorite IWD2 character builds?

 

[Minttunator]

I just started a run of IWD2 - it being the only Infinity Engine game I haven't completed yet!

The party, fairly straightforward stuff:
1) Half-orc Fighter 4/Barbarian - stats 20-16-18-1-18-1. Probably going to take up Greatswords and all the usual feats.
2) Shield dwarf Cleric of Tempus - stats 18-16-20-3-18-1. Additional melee presence and buffing.
3) Tiefling Rogue 1/Conjurer - stats 10-20-18-20-8-2. Covers all the necessary skills and focuses on debuffs.
4) Human Sorcerer - stats 8-18-18-4-10-18. Focuses on nukes. This guy is also the main talker.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

You may want to reconsider using only four characters.

IWD2 implements experience scaling based upon average party level versus the slain creature's challenge rating which blunts a lot of the advantages of running with a slightly smaller party. In the previous game, a party of four could expect to see maybe three or four more levels (per character) than a group of six. But in IWD2, the fast leveling will eventually cause experience rewards to dry up, because the average party level starts to exceed challenge ratings for enemies, thus experience rewards wither more quickly. Some parties of four may only see one extra level versus what a party of six would have; not really a great tradeoff.

ECL+ (Effective Character Level) races are even worse in small parties, because their impacted on the mean level is greater due to the smaller n. Tieflings and Aasimar, with +1ECL aren't too bad, but things like Drow and Svirfneblin can really stunt EXP accumulation towards the latter part of the game.

 

[Minttunator]

Thanks for the advice, Edward! I'm definitely leaving my options open with regards to adding more characters if progression turns out to be too slow - besides, I'm playing on Insane so I might end up needing more firepower.

I've read various differing estimates on how the experience system actually affects the levels a party ultimately reaches, most of them are more optimistic than "one extra level" - I guess I'll have to find out for myself. There is always the possibility of level squatting or adding mules to artificially bring the average down.

I think ECL actually works the other way around, though - due to higher exp requirements the ECL guys will be lower level than the rest of the party, hence they should bring the average down (or at least they won't increase it). In other words, I think it's their actual level that's used in the exp calculations (not the "effective" one).

 

[roshan]

I just started a run of IWD2 - it being the only Infinity Engine game I haven't completed yet!

The party, fairly straightforward stuff:
1) Half-orc Fighter 4/Barbarian - stats 20-16-18-1-18-1. Probably going to take up Greatswords and all the usual feats.
2) Shield dwarf Cleric of Tempus - stats 18-16-20-3-18-1. Additional melee presence and buffing.
3) Tiefling Rogue 1/Conjurer - stats 10-20-18-20-8-2. Covers all the necessary skills and focuses on debuffs.
4) Human Sorcerer - stats 8-18-18-4-10-18. Focuses on nukes. This guy is also the main talker.

Unsolicited powergaming advice:

1. Forget greatswords. Not a decent one in the game. Axes and halberds will rape enemies though. Massive greataxe of flame, if you are lucky to get it, otherwise, massive halberd of hate! As you get spells like luck, executioner's eyes, improved critical, various items that improve critical threat range, axes with x3 criticals outshine swords by a MASSIVE margin.

2. Is the Tempus domain for RP reasons? Are you open to adding one or two levels of a fighter type class as a mix in? Battle clerics work really well in IWD.

3. Why not Drow? Or is the level adjustment too much to bear? Why conjurer? I think illusionist and transmuter are better since they have less important opposition schools (you lose abjuration and necromancy but the few good spells from those schools can be picked up by the sorcerer.) Also, spoiler incoming, there is a special quest that only transmuters can do, to get a bonus only they can have

4. Why not add a bit of Paladin for incredible saves? I suppose you are going with Human so you can get two skill points per level for concentration and spellcraft?

 

[roshan]

You may want to reconsider using only four characters.

IWD2 implements experience scaling based upon average party level versus the slain creature's challenge rating which blunts a lot of the advantages of running with a slightly smaller party. In the previous game, a party of four could expect to see maybe three or four more levels (per character) than a group of six. But in IWD2, the fast leveling will eventually cause experience rewards to dry up, because the average party level starts to exceed challenge ratings for enemies, thus experience rewards wither more quickly. Some parties of four may only see one extra level versus what a party of six would have; not really a great tradeoff.

ECL+ (Effective Character Level) races are even worse in small parties, because their impacted on the mean level is greater due to the smaller n. Tieflings and Aasimar, with +1ECL aren't too bad, but things like Drow and Svirfneblin can really stunt EXP accumulation towards the latter part of the game.

If you take some mix in classes, you will end up with XP penalties, which will lead to you getting more experience because the average level is lower. IWD2 is a really weird game.

 

[Minttunator]

Unsolicited powergaming advice:

1. Forget greatswords. Not a decent one in the game. Axes and halberds will rape enemies though. Massive greataxe of flame, if you are lucky to get it, otherwise, massive halberd of hate! As you get spells like luck, executioner's eyes, improved critical, various items that improve critical threat range, axes with x3 criticals outshine swords by a MASSIVE margin.

2. Is the Tempus domain for RP reasons? Are you open to adding one or two levels of a fighter type class as a mix in? Battle clerics work really well in IWD.

3. Why not Drow? Or is the level adjustment too much to bear? Why conjurer? I think illusionist and transmuter are better since they have less important opposition schools (you lose abjuration and necromancy but the few good spells from those schools can be picked up by the sorcerer.) Also, spoiler incoming, there is a special quest that only transmuters can do, to get a bonus only they can have

4. Why not add a bit of Paladin for incredible saves? I suppose you are going with Human so you can get two skill points per level for concentration and spellcraft?

Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it! Most of the stuff you pointed out I actually considered while making these characters (great minds think alike and all that).

1. I understand most of the loot is random so I went with the weapon that does more base damage - i.e. I figure I might get lucky and get a decent greatsword as much as I might get lucky and get a decent halberd. The Massive Halberd of Hate is nice but I think it's only available late in the game, right? I.e. I still need to get lucky for a decent weapon to use until chapters 5-6. The best axe I find is going to the cleric since he gets weapon focus on axes for free.

2. I'm not RP-ing here, just look at the INT and CHA on most of these characters! :D I will admit to being partial to priests of Tempus, though, having played several in pen and paper.
He gets weapon proficiency and focus on axes (which, as you said yourself, are decent weapons) from his domain, so I don't think fighter levels would add that much - unless I'm taking 4 for specialisation, which I'm not. Besides, that would slow down spell progression - the feats and better BAB would be nice, but I'm not sure it'd be worth giving up earlier access to higher-level spells.

3. Too much ECL on the Drow as I'm already behind an extra level due to the level of Rogue (which I need to get all the skills that I want) - and the Tiefling gets slightly better stats (no -2 to CON). The Spell Resistance of a Drow is nice but I think I can manage without.
The opposition school is a tricky question, but I've always thought Evocation is one of the better ones to drop since it's just damage spells and there are enough of those in other schools (besides, my sorc is focusing on Evocation). I didn't know about the Transmuter-only quest, though, so I might have to reconsider.

4. I actually was going to add a Paladin level here originally, but since this guy is the designated talker he can't have any Paladin or Monk levels due to those guys refusing quest rewards. I could work around it by talking with someone else when finishing quests but I can't be arsed to switch party leaders before every dialogue. Besides, a dip would slow down spell progression. And yeah, the race choice is so I could drop INT to the minimum and still get Concentration and Spellcraft.

 

[Roguey]

1. Forget greatswords. Not a decent one in the game.

Sawyer told you this was bullshit years ago and he was right.

 

[roshan]

Unsolicited powergaming advice:

1. Forget greatswords. Not a decent one in the game. Axes and halberds will rape enemies though. Massive greataxe of flame, if you are lucky to get it, otherwise, massive halberd of hate! As you get spells like luck, executioner's eyes, improved critical, various items that improve critical threat range, axes with x3 criticals outshine swords by a MASSIVE margin.

2. Is the Tempus domain for RP reasons? Are you open to adding one or two levels of a fighter type class as a mix in? Battle clerics work really well in IWD.

3. Why not Drow? Or is the level adjustment too much to bear? Why conjurer? I think illusionist and transmuter are better since they have less important opposition schools (you lose abjuration and necromancy but the few good spells from those schools can be picked up by the sorcerer.) Also, spoiler incoming, there is a special quest that only transmuters can do, to get a bonus only they can have

4. Why not add a bit of Paladin for incredible saves? I suppose you are going with Human so you can get two skill points per level for concentration and spellcraft?

Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it! Most of the stuff you pointed out I actually considered while making these characters (great minds think alike and all that).

1. I understand most of the loot is random so I went with the weapon that does more base damage - i.e. I figure I might get lucky and get a decent greatsword as much as I might get lucky and get a decent halberd. The Massive Halberd of Hate is nice but I think it's only available late in the game, right? I.e. I still need to get lucky for a decent weapon to use until chapters 5-6. The best axe I find is going to the cleric since he gets weapon focus on axes for free.

2. I'm not RP-ing here, just look at the INT and CHA on most of these characters! :D I will admit to being partial to priests of Tempus, though, having played several in pen and paper.
He gets weapon proficiency and focus on axes (which, as you said yourself, are decent weapons) from his domain, so I don't think fighter levels would add that much - unless I'm taking 4 for specialisation, which I'm not. Besides, that would slow down spell progression - the feats and better BAB would be nice, but I'm not sure it'd be worth giving up earlier access to higher-level spells.

3. Too much ECL on the Drow as I'm already behind an extra level due to the level of Rogue (which I need to get all the skills that I want) - and the Tiefling gets slightly better stats (no -2 to CON). The Spell Resistance of a Drow is nice but I think I can manage without.
The opposition school is a tricky question, but I've always thought Evocation is one of the better ones to drop since it's just damage spells and there are enough of those in other schools (besides, my sorc is focusing on Evocation). I didn't know about the Transmuter-only quest, though, so I might have to reconsider.

4. I actually was going to add a Paladin level here originally, but since this guy is the designated talker he can't have any Paladin or Monk levels due to those guys refusing quest rewards. I could work around it by talking with someone else when finishing quests but I can't be arsed to switch party leaders before every dialogue. Besides, a dip would slow down spell progression. And yeah, the race choice is so I could drop INT to the minimum and still get Concentration and Spellcraft.

1. Yeah, most of the loot is random, but greatswords in particular were almost forgotten. There's always something crappy about every great sword you end up finding. Sometimes they do elemental damage but have no base damage enchantment (+5 to hit, but missing the +5 damage). You probably shouldn't spoil the game for yourself, but if you look at the items list, you will be quite disappointed with the selection of great swords. The first time I played I had to go all the way to Sherincal before I got my first, a +1 greatsword that ignores armor. I have actually never found a decent great sword.

2. I guess the cleric getting Weapon Spec/Focus in axe is nice, but I don't think it's such a good idea to gimp your main damage dealer (the fighter/barb) in favor of the cleric! Tempus is of course cool, but there are a few better choices IMO. Most of this is debatable, except for the hands-down best cleric of them all: Dreadmaster of Bane. It's an incredibly powerful class as they get lots of spells that require will saves as their domain spells (mostly enchantments). With their Tyrant's Dictum ability, an Aasimar's + 2 WIS, GSF Enchantment, their special quest reward (watch out for this, it's awesome!), all points dumped in wisdom, wisdom boosting items, and some permanent stat boosts available in the game, you will end up with an awesome godlike puppet master. Lawful Neutral is a good choice as you can spontaneously convert spells to healing.

For a good cleric, I like to do Helm or Ilmater with a couple levels of Paladin (coincidentally the game has Helm and Ilmater Paladins too ). I like Ilmater's domain spells but the special abilities of the Helm cleric. Helm has a nice damage boosting domain ability, and a save boosting one too. Ilmater can boost CON as a domain ability which is OK but the other domain ability is crap. These are good to build as a fighters, pumping STR instead of WIS. The Paladin levels also give this character a special permanent boost when a certain quest is completed.

Another one I have yet to play properly is the Demarch of Mask, with excellent domain spells. Mirror Image on a battle cleric?!! And Executioner's Eyes!

3. The transmuter actually gets a very minor bonus but it's cool nonetheless. Nothing you couldn't do without to be honest. I guess your character could do without evocation spells, but I think you miss out more by losing evocation as opposed to necromancy/abjuration. I personally don't use any of the abjuration spells regularly aside from stoneskin, and that's a spell that you would actually want your sorcerer to learn and cast (the flexibility of the sorcerer means in HOF mode you can stoneskin your entire party before a tough battle). There are a few good necromancy spells (horror, skull trap, animate dead, horrid wilting, WOTB) but again everything can be picked up by the sorcerer.

Having two characters that can cast evocations is also nice because you can spam AOE's in tough battles.

Sorry for the spoilers!!!

 

[roshan]

Sawyer told you this was bullshit years ago and he was right.

Oh for fuck's sake stop being such a silly fanboy. Get real. A min-maxed character rarely misses anyway. A great sword +1 that ignores armor is OK (better than a greatsword +1 that doesn't ignore armor) but nothing compares to being able to dish out raw damage.

It simply cannot come close to the ultra-damage criticals that you can get on a Massive Halberd of Hate or Massive Greataxe of Flame. Items and feats alone can boost your critical chance to 50%, with spells you can boost critical chance up to 75%.

 

[Roguey]

Oh for fuck's sake stop being such a silly fanboy. Get real. A min-maxed character rarely misses anyway. A great sword +1 that ignores armor is OK (better than a greatsword +1 that doesn't ignore armor) but nothing compares to being able to dish out raw damage.

It simply cannot come close to the ultra-damage criticals that you can get on a Massive Halberd of Hate or Massive Greataxe of Flame. Items and feats alone can boost your critical chance to 50%, with spells you can boost critical chance up to 75%.

People who discount Cleaver's ability to ignore armor and shield bonuses aren't really thinking about how BAB works in D&D. It's easy to hit with the first and second attacks out of four or five, but the probability of hitting with the subsequent attacks gets pretty slim. You're at -10 on your 3rd attack, -15 on the 4th, etc.

If people don't consider Winged Blight to be a powerful greatsword, I'm not sure what to say.

There's also Undead Slayer for those crit-immune undead and greatsword of virtue for chaotic evil creatures. "But these weapons are better" is a minutiae-argument I'm unwilling to engage in, the point is greatswords are perfectly viable in IWD2.

 

[the_shadow]

Oh for fuck's sake stop being such a silly fanboy. Get real. A min-maxed character rarely misses anyway. A great sword +1 that ignores armor is OK (better than a greatsword +1 that doesn't ignore armor) but nothing compares to being able to dish out raw damage.

It simply cannot come close to the ultra-damage criticals that you can get on a Massive Halberd of Hate or Massive Greataxe of Flame. Items and feats alone can boost your critical chance to 50%, with spells you can boost critical chance up to 75%.

People who discount Cleaver's ability to ignore armor and shield bonuses aren't really thinking about how BAB works in D&D. It's easy to hit with the first and second attacks out of four or five, but the probability of hitting with the subsequent attacks gets pretty slim. You're at -10 on your 3rd attack, -15 on the 4th, etc.

If people don't consider Winged Blight to be a powerful greatsword, I'm not sure what to say.

There's also Undead Slayer for those crit-immune undead and greatsword of virtue for chaotic evil creatures. "But these weapons are better" is a minutiae-argument I'm unwilling to engage in, the point is greatswords are perfectly viable in IWD2.

Viable? Perhaps. But early and mid-game, the power of greatswords lags behind that of other weapon types. Winged Blight is powerful, if used against humans. However, humans are a minority of enemies in the game, and a +1 weapon won't help much against Ice Golem Champions, which is what you are facing at this point.Cleaver is purchased in Kuldahar (late-game), and to be honest, it isn't that good. Ignoring armor and shield bonuses is gravy.

 

[Roguey]

There are plenty of human enemies in the ice temple and later on in chapter 3 when you fight barbarians.

 

[roshan]

Oh for fuck's sake stop being such a silly fanboy. Get real. A min-maxed character rarely misses anyway. A great sword +1 that ignores armor is OK (better than a greatsword +1 that doesn't ignore armor) but nothing compares to being able to dish out raw damage.

It simply cannot come close to the ultra-damage criticals that you can get on a Massive Halberd of Hate or Massive Greataxe of Flame. Items and feats alone can boost your critical chance to 50%, with spells you can boost critical chance up to 75%.

People who discount Cleaver's ability to ignore armor and shield bonuses aren't really thinking about how BAB works in D&D. It's easy to hit with the first and second attacks out of four or five, but the probability of hitting with the subsequent attacks gets pretty slim. You're at -10 on your 3rd attack, -15 on the 4th, etc.

Oh nice let's conveniently forget that in 3rd Edition, chance to hit increases every time you level, while damage and armor class don't.

If people don't consider Winged Blight to be a powerful greatsword, I'm not sure what to say.

There's also Undead Slayer for those crit-immune undead and greatsword of virtue for chaotic evil creatures.

Those weapons are generally crap if you're powergaming.

"But these weapons are better" is a minutiae-argument I'm unwilling to engage in, the point is greatswords are perfectly viable in IWD2.

Translation: You like shitty design as long as it's Sawyer's shitty design. "Barely viable if don't mind characters that suck" is not the same as "a decent alternative in which you give up something to get something else".

 

[the_shadow]

There are plenty of human enemies in the ice temple and later on in chapter 3 when you fight barbarians.

Yeah, there are a significant number of humans in the game, but they still constitute a minority of enemies. And the Aurilites in the Ice Temple aren't challenging, whereas the golems are. Winged Blight is more a specialist weapon I'd use against tough human opponents, which are few and far between.

 

[Roguey]

Oh nice let's conveniently forget that in 3rd Edition, chance to hit increases every time you level, while damage and armor class don't.

So? You're still much less likely to hit with your later attacks.

Those weapons are generally crap if you're powergaming.

In D&D there will always be superior and inferior options, especially when it comes to base statistics of weapons that are inferior by design.

Translation: You like shitty design as long as it's Sawyer's shitty design. "Barely viable if don't mind characters that suck" is not the same as "a decent alternative in which you give up something to get something else".

But they don't suck. You can complete the game with a greatsword-specced character just fine and you'll have a steady progression, provided you rely on shops to fill in the gaps when the RNG tables fail you.

You're as unreasonable as the people described in

Community opinions on the Automatic Rifle are a pretty good example for why "doing what the community thinks should be done" is often impossible. I have as many people telling me that the Automatic Rifle is the Most OP OP That Ever OPed as I have people telling me that it's terrible and there are no good weapons in Dead Money.

When I saw people complaining that the Plasma Defender wasn't powerful enough, even after the third patch, I knew that there was a segment of players who would never be happy with EWs until they steamrolled over every Guns equivalent six ways from Sunday.

 

[Minttunator]

Sorry for the spoilers!!!

Thanks for the additional comments, bro! I'm not that worried about spoilers - this is a hack and slash game, after all.
I'm gonna have a look at the loot tables to see how bad the situation is with great swords and read more about Bane clerics - maybe I'll end up making some changes to the party.

 

[roshan]

So? You're still much less likely to hit with your later attacks.

Wrong.

Let's look at a warrior's worst AB. A warrior get's his fifth attack at 21 BAB. With 9 more levels to go, the worst attack has a base BAB of 10. If you have 34 STR, that's +12, plus weapon focus (1), plus 5 (weapon enchantment), plus let's say a bless spell from an equipped item (1), etc, etc. Basically, as a pure warrior your worst attack is already hitting at a total bonus of around 28 or so. This means your attacks look something like 49/44/39/34/28. If you have haste or an item that gives you an extra attack, your first attack is doubled and the last dropped, so you end up with something like 49/49/44/39/34, to which a die roll of 1d20 is added. Luck bonuses skew these die rolls upwards, so with for example a +5 luck, 30% of the time you will have a 20 added on to your base.

With buffing spells on top.... Attack bonus becomes an irrelevance.

In D&D there will always be superior and inferior options, especially when it comes to base statistics of weapons that are inferior by design.

I think the problem with Icewind Dale 2 is that it seems designers decided to give unpopular weapon types a boost by including uber powered items. They forgot that in 3E there was no reason to do that as those weapons already have huge advantages. This makes some categories like great sword useless.

But they don't suck. You can complete the game with a greatsword-specced character just fine and you'll have a steady progression, provided you rely on shops to fill in the gaps when the RNG tables fail you.

You're as unreasonable as the people described in

Yes, they do suck. We are talking about powergaming here. Playing through the game twice in order to craft a pansy who does x2 criticals with a shitty sword versus an axe wielding monster is just silly. It's really weird that you are supposedly a "gamist" but all pretensions of gamism are thrown out the window when Sawyer critically fails at it.

 

[roshan]

Here's another consideration: Axe proficiency allows you to use axe and shield, dual wielding, two handed style, and also ranged attacks(!). It's a complete all-in-one proficiency. Whereas great sword only lets you use two handed weapons.

 

[Crichton]

I can't believe this, I open this thread up and people are using non-spellcasters in a 3E D&D game.

SHAMEFUR DISPLAY!

IWDII is the weak sister of the IE games, so I've only played through it once. But based on that limited knowledge, I think the ideal party would be something like:

Rogue1/WizardX (skill monkey, archer, utility caster)
Druid (not that great at any one thing but another spell list breaks the tedium)
Paladin1-2/Painbearer of IlmaterX (cool dialog, healer,

Spoiler

holy avenging longsword

)
Morninglord of Lathandar (healing + fire magic)
Battleguard of Tempus (axe user + some nasty offensive magic)
Watcher of Helm (good defensive magic)

The Dreadmaster of Bane is an interesting alternative; he's sort of like a more effective version of the Battleguard of Tempus but the problem is that he can't be good. And that kind of takes the edge off of using Holy Word. The most valuable thing in the world isn't money, son. It's time. And Holy Word is time; time to cast Heal, time to reposition your party, time to summon a distraction, time to do what you need to do to win. I think the Dreadmaster would only really be useful in an all-evil party that instead takes advantage of being immune to the evil equivalent of Holy Word (Blasphemy? Unholy Word?)

 

[the_shadow]

Blasphemy and Unholy Word won't affect evil NPCS either, who constitute about 95+% of your enemies. Evil clerics do get Cloud of Pestilence, which is essentially a mass blind spell. Holy Word for good clerics is fantastic, but you don't get that until near the end of the game, and Symbol of Hopelessness is on the same spell level.

I recently completed the game with a Banite cleric. Banite's are OK, but if I could do it over again, I'd go with Tempus. You can be neutral/good/evil, both of your domain abilities are useful, and the domain spellbook selection is pretty damn good.

And Chrichton, what's the deal with your cleric heavy party? Yeah, cleric's rock, but there are some points in the game where magic isn't going to cut it and you'll need a couple of fighters with a high BAB.

 

[roshan]

Actually I never use pure fighter types, all my front line characters are usually battle clerics with 4 levels of warrior, sometimes two levels of paladin, one level of monk and one level of ranger I normally pick one mix in for the early game, and then top them up with the other classes towards the end or in HOF.

The Dreadmaster of Bane is an interesting alternative; he's sort of like a more effective version of the Battleguard of Tempus but the problem is that he can't be good. And that kind of takes the edge off of using Holy Word. The most valuable thing in the world isn't money, son. It's time. And Holy Word is time; time to cast Heal, time to reposition your party, time to summon a distraction, time to do what you need to do to win. I think the Dreadmaster would only really be useful in an all-evil party that instead takes advantage of being immune to the evil equivalent of Holy Word (Blasphemy? Unholy Word?)

It's not just an interesting alternative, it's a different beast entirely.

With 20 base wisdom, +4 WIS from the Dreadmaster quests, +4 from holy transference, +2 from clear purpose, +1 from Tyrant's Dictum domain ability, +7 from level ups and +5 from every god ring, you end up with a whopping 42 WIS + Tyrant's Dictum. Add SF and GSF enchantment on top of this.

Look at the domain spells:

1 Bane, Command
2 Horror, Silence
3 Dire Charm, Rigid Thinking
4 Cloak of Fear, Emotion: Despair
5 Dominate Person, Greater Command
6 Feeblemind, Power Word: Silence
7 Gate, Suffocate
8 Flaying, Power Word: Blind
9 Mass Dominate, Summon Monster IX

They get most of the wizard enchantments which are still useful at the end game (some of the other ones are based on the HD of the monsters, etc). Holy Word is great of course but cannot compare to mass dominating 80% of creatures on the screen, making them kill off anyone that isn't dominated, and then making the dominated monsters kill each other off one by one.

I usually go with Aasimar as it makes for a better front line tank early game, but make the character a deep gnome with 20 dex and 20 wis, and take a level of monk, and you will end up with excellent AC, evasion and magic resistance.

Paladin1-2/Painbearer of IlmaterX

I like this one a lot, at the end I just dump in four levels of warrior, one level of ranger and one level of monk for the evasion (there's an Ilmater monk too in the game, so it kind of fits).

Morninglord of Lathandar (healing + fire magic)
Battleguard of Tempus (axe user + some nasty offensive magic)
Watcher of Helm (good defensive magic)

No sorcerer? The sorcerer makes things that are extremely impractical to pull of with a wizard doable, such as for example stoneskinning the whole party on the fly. The flexibility their spellcasting adds to the party makes them much more valuable than yet another cleric.

 

[roshan]

Looking for comments on this 5 character party:

1. Lawful Neutral Aasimar Bane(X) - points in WIS.
(should I go with deep gnome instead?)

2. Lawful Good Drow Paladin(2)/Sorcerer(X) - points in CHA. uses swords.
(I really want the +CHA, +DEX and magic resistance of the drow. But he has only one skill point. Concentration or Spellcraft?)

3. Drow Rogue(1)/Transmuter(X) - points in INT.
(What's a good alignment to pick?)

4. Lawful Good Paladin(2)/Cleric(X) - points in STR. uses axes.
(Helm, Tempus or Ilmater? Help me decide!)

5. Chaotic Evil Half Orc Warrior(4)/Mask(X) - points in STR.

Any suggestion for a sixth character that I might add?

******************************************************

For reference here are the domain abilites and spells of Helm, Tempus and Ilmater:

TEMPUS

Special abilities:
- Automatically gains Marial Weapon: Axe and Weapon Focus: Axe feats.
- Tempus' Strength: 1/Day (increase Strength by 6 for number of rounds equal to level).

Domain Spells by level:
1 Bless, Magic Stone
2 Chant, Draw Upon Holy Might
3 Animate Dead, Prayer
4 Blood Rage, Recitation
5 Champion's Strength, Chaotic Commands
6 Circle of Blades, Spiritual Wrath
7 Power Word: Blind, Summon Monster VII
8 Power Word: Stun, Summon Monster VIII
9 Power Word: Kill, Summon Monster IX

HELM

Special abilities:
- Helm's Shield: 1/Day (grants a +2 bonus to saves for a number of rounds equal to level)
- Helm's Watch: 1/Day (grants a +2 armor bonus as well as a +2 armor bonus vs missiles for a number of rounds equal to level).

Domain Spells by level:
1 Armor of Faith, Protection from Evil
2 Hold Person, Spell Shield
3 Exaltation, Glyph of Warding
4 Death Ward, Defensive Harmony
5 Dismissal, Greater Command
6 Circle of Blades, Globe of Invulnerability
7 Impervious Sanctity of Mind, Spiritual Wrath
8 Iron Body, Seven Eyes
9 Aegis, Banishment

ILMATER

Special abilities:
- Pain Touch: 1/Day (Touch weapon that causes a -2 penalty to STR and DEX for 10 rounds).
- Ilmater's Endurance: 1/Day (Increase CON by 6 for a number of rounds equal to level).

Domain Spells by level:
1 Minor Elemental Barrier, Protection from Evil
2 Aid, Remove Fatigue
3 Cure Serious Wounds, Magic Circle Against Evil
4 Emotion: Hope, Holy Smite
5 Feeblemind, Holy Power
6 Harm, Stoneskin
7 Holy Word, Impervious Sanctity of Mind
8 Holy Aura, Symbol of Pain
9 Horrid Wilting, Summon Monster IX