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The Guild 3

Turisas

Arch Devil
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Soup kitchen to feed the poor? :decline:



Unless of course you can poison the soup. :smug:
 

vonAchdorf

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I watched some Let's play and read up on the EA and people don't seem to be impressed (to put it mildly). Especially because the game doesn't really match their description:

Early Access is fully playable but in need of balancing and (performance) optimization. Participants can expect minor and few major bugs, that we will fix during Early Access.

Apparently neither the Ai nor the market simulation is currently working. Considering how long they are already working on the game, they seem to be underfunded.
 

Burning Bridges

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I have only read the steam reviews and forum posts because the game interested me, and it seems people cannot even play and major parts like AI and UI are not in place.

Seems a pretty haphazard release, maybe even a total trainwreck.
 

Zed

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to be honest, the guild 1 and 2 were buggy - and in that sense shitty - as well.

they've got time to fix things. I will not lose hope!
 

vonAchdorf

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to be honest, the guild 1 and 2 were buggy - and in that sense shitty - as well.

they've got time to fix things. I will not lose hope!

I hope the "final" patch doesn't take 8 years like with Guild 2 ;)

Anyway, if you release a game in EA, to get feedback for balancing and optimization, it makes sense that the gameplay is actually implemented.
 

Metro

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Should always be a huge warning when a AAA publisher's game has an early access period.
 

SmartCheetah

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Seems like some features are actually IN the game (and they work fine) but for some bizarre reason they are hidden as fuck.
 

Space Satan

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Guild had a lot of exploitable and unbalanced shit. I coul make fortune as alchemist but almostnobody bought church stuff or soup. I made 99% of my fortune in GII by selling stuff in the market. Just park your building 10 meters from market sqare and you are guaranteed to have huge profit. And automation was horrible, even worse than X-Terran Conflict had. My manager bought tons of useless stuff and barely could do anything, spiralling me into debt,
 

SmartCheetah

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Yeah, also mines were ultra unbalanced in unmodded Guild 2. You could basicly mine gold/gems and keep selling them, while conducting other business. Amounts of money you had in just few years were absurd. In the biggest mod, mines were much more expensive, so it actually made sense.
I've heard that animal farms and lumberjacks were also making a lot of dough. Things you could produce without using other resources were basicly a constant big flow of money.
In comparison: Having 3 thief hideouts in 3 different cities, all levelled up and thieves set on the streets - I was still making less money. And I had to go to court every now and then.
 

Space Satan

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Yeah, it was basically not profitable to produce second tier goods. I played with alchemist shop mostly for roleplay and stuff and even then I often had a mine for stable income.
 

Norfleet

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In comparison: Having 3 thief hideouts in 3 different cities, all levelled up and thieves set on the streets - I was still making less money. And I had to go to court every now and then.
The thing to keep in mind with thieves: While you might be making less money than others, you're making THEIR money. If I can make 500 as a thief and you can make 750, I can make you make 250 because 500 of your 750 is mine.

The other thing to understand about thieves is that you have a MILITARY: You can expand your operations through armed force, which in turn enables you to conquer other military bulidings and snowball, then use your expanding military force of thieves and robbers to advance your political ambitions, and thus render you immune to the courts at all...and in the meantime, if everyone who complains about you ends up dying, well...
 

The Wall

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Hmmm, I have to admit I'm quite intrigued by Guild serie which I have been unaware before. If I'd have to compare it to anything it would be playing Crusader Kings II in 3D, starting as nobody and potentially rising to leader of Merchant republic, Mount & Blade-ish sandbox, economic and medieval social simulator.

Or just fun. I guess calling it fun would work too.
 
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"serie". europa 1400 was a fun game, original and entertaining but with truckloads of limitations and bugs. its sequel kept only the bugs and introduced countless exploits.
 

Norfleet

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Yeah, it was basically not profitable to produce second tier goods. I played with alchemist shop mostly for roleplay and stuff and even then I often had a mine for stable income.
High-tier goods are not normally produced for profit, but for personal and military use. See my notes on "military" above. If you can equip with troops with heavy weapons and armor, you'll have a LOT more muscle.
 

Space Satan

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And with basic stuff I can just ignore my losses and overexpand my mansion. After that, game becomes boring.
 

Norfleet

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Apparently neither the Ai nor the market simulation is currently working. Considering how long they are already working on the game, they seem to be underfunded.
Often a fairly normal pattern: AI is often not developed until the rules of the game are closer to being locked in. Otherwise you end up having to completely rewrite the AI when the underlying rules you wrote the AI under get changed.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/10/10/the-guild-3-early-access-review/

Premature Evaluation: The Guild 3
Fraser Brown on October 10th, 2017 at 9:00 pm.

the-guild-header-620x301.jpg


This week, Fraser’s the one being offered up as a sacrifice to the cruel gods of Early Access. He’s been flung back through time to live his best serf life in GolemLab’s medieval sim, The Guild 3 [official site].

Being a freelance video game man, I suffer from a great deal of existential dread, and it’s proved to be too much for me, so I’ve packed it all in to start fresh in The Guild 3’s recreation of 15th century London. In my new and improved life, I’m Carlton Bloomer, a rogue, a pickpocket and a feckless ne’er-do-well. Join me as I try to rise to the top of medieval English society using my quick fingers and juggling skills.


guild1-620x349.jpg


I could have picked a less… ethically challenging path for my first foray into The Guild 3. The character creator lets you choose a starting skill that informs how you’ll make your way through the world. I could have been a herbalist or maybe a craftsman, but why make when you can take?

Life begins at home. Literally. I spawn into the world standing right next to my awful house. My awful, almost empty house. In storage, I have two daggers. These represent my sole possessions. With no tutorial and a hint system that decides to break after the very first tip, I’m already a wee bit lost. I try to remember how I’d start things off in the previous Guild game, but I seem to have forgotten everything in the last seven years.

guildhouse-620x349.jpg


This is fine. It’s a lovely day, the sun is out, the serfs are workings — I should see what trouble I can get into. A quick glance at the confusing skill tree informs me that I can select a new skill. Obviously I choose pickpocketing, the foundation of any successful criminal career. I’ve already spotted my first mark: the very first person I see. He’s just standing there, oblivious to my ill intent.

Unfortunately, picking pockets seems to be beyond me. Clicking on my mark just moves me uncomfortably close to him. Close enough to kiss him right on the lips. We stand there, in silence, for a sexually charged in-game hour. It’s only after a cold shower that I realise there’s a button that reveals all the class-based actions I can perform, and pickpocketing hasn’t been unlocked yet. I’ve selected it, sure, but that just means I’m in the process of learning it.

guild2-620x349.jpg


This minor setback has not diminished my optimism because while I learn to pick a pocket or two, there are three roguish things I can do right now. Setting up an ambush seems like a bit much for my first day on the job, and who would I even ambush? I don’t know anyone. Scouting roads sounds a lot like just walking, and that doesn’t seem particularly thrilling. That leaves jugglery, the most devious skill of all.

The Guild 3’s jugglery skill appears to be more like a really bad interpretive dance and involves zero balls, swords or fire. I find an unsuspecting victim and throw some shapes briefly. She seems to dig it, laughing and clapping as I do my best impression of an inflatable tube man. When I’m done, she tosses me some cash. This doesn’t seem too hard, but I’m thinking too small. What kind of fool performs for an audience of one? I crave the adoration of a huge crowd, and that means leaving London’s sleepy outskirts and heading right into the heart of the big city. Fame and fortune and probably more not-really-juggling await!

guild3-620x349.jpg


It takes me a little longer to make my way down the road to London than I expected. The wild and unwieldy camera controls and UI work hard to befuddle, and I lose track of Carlton more than once. With a little perseverance, however, I enter the gates of England’s capital before dusk and start looking for the pub. Nobody likes an impromptu street performance more than drunks.

Lamentably, there’s no pub, inn or tavern of any kind to be found in all of London. I manually browse the list of buildings and the only place I’m likely to find drunks is near the church. London’s a pretty busy place, though, and I quickly spot a likely crowd milling around on the street. I only have to look into their eyes to know what they’re thinking: “Show us what you’ve got.” I’m going to show them shapes they’ve never even seen before.

guild5-620x349.jpg


It’s time for some mental arithmetic to predict how fat my purse is going to be after all this. I have around 20 gawking potential patrons and my sole previous experience tells me that I can earn 32 gold from a single onlooker. Even assuming that half of the crowd don’t dig my performance, I’m looking at a 320 gold windfall. I am obviously very excited.

I get 10 gold.

Come the hell on. Despite the increased size of my audience, that’s a third of what my first performance netted me. Why? That’s a question I’m asking myself a lot while attempting to muddle my way through the 1400s absent even a sliver of guidance or context. What is clear is that there’s no point in trying to attract big crowds, so I’ve wasted the better part of my day in the cosmopolitan city of London, with its two shops and a church.

guildlondon-620x349.jpg


A few more dances later and I’ve made a little bit of cash, no thanks to the vast numbers of people watching me make a fool of myself. I’ve also levelled up my jugglery skill and now I start to dream of all the new abilities I’ll learn. Perhaps I’ll even be able to actually juggle. But no, the life of a rogue is not a happy one. It’s tragic. So when I open up my sparse yet jumbled skill menu, I can’t even see a jugglery skill.

In the rogue section I can only see fighting, sleight of hand, veteran and shadow arts. The first two are sort of self-explanatory, unlike the others. Veteran might make me better at fighting too? And shadow arts sounds like it has something to do with murder. But the vague explanations are no help at all. At least that’s consistent with the rest of the terrible UI. To unlock these other skills, I’ll need to do a bit of grinding. Splendid.

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But wait! I might not have enough experience to get a new skill, but I have levelled up my social status… somehow. The Guild 3 has a bunch of social classes, each unlocking new skills and abilities like creating businesses and controlling employees. In the previous game, new titles had to be purchased, but here it happens automatically while you’re doing other things. So now I’m a yeoman.

I’m also something of a hero. While I was busy trying to parse the menus, someone apparently tried to murder a man, but I spotted the attempt and called for the guards. My reputation is a little better because of my heroics. Except none of this actually happened. It’s just a random text event that offers me no choices or opportunities. While I’m making a sandwich, I leave the game running, with Carlton standing in the middle of the street doing nothing. As I enjoy my tasty lunch, I also manage to foil another murder attempt, dig up ‘antique shards’ worth 9 gold in a field and hold a lavish feast in my empty hovel for my invisible friends. I’m better at this game when I’m idle.

guild7-620x299.jpg


Maybe I’ve been going about this all wrong. My 32 years living with capitalism has made me focus too much on work when I should be making meaningful human connections. In The Guild 3, that means getting married. A spouse means kids, and kids mean a legacy. The ultimate goal, though that might be too strong a word in what is a sandbox, is establishing a successful dynasty. You can also pick more specific objectives, but I’m playing in the free-form mode.

I’ve noticed one woman showing up to several of my shows. And it’s definitely not because there’s not much NPC diversity. Her name is Melanie and she is single, 23 and has some peasant clothes. I’m smitten. Seduction is a lot like jugglery, in that it involves pushing a button, watching an animation cycle and then being disappointed with the results. “You successfully complimented Melanie,” the game tells me. Cool. Over the next few minutes, I successfully compliment Melanie 25 times. I can’t tell if it’s doing anything. Melanie wanders off, without a word. It’s started to rain.

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Unable to find my beloved again, since the only way to search for a character is by manually looking through the list of every single dynasty and every character connected to it, I give up. I might be besotted, but I’ve got my limits. All in all, my first day in London has been terrible. I’m angry. Seething, even. And I’m going to take my rage out on the people of the capital. This is my supervillain origin story.

The plan:

the-plan-620x352.jpg


Hitting the ambush button conjures up a hiding spot, with crates and bushes popping into existence as if by magic. This is going to be great, I just know it. Everyone will fear Carlton Bloomer, Evil Wizard Rogue!

Some filthy peasants walk right by my hiding spot, and I strike. Or rather, I walk right up to them just stare. Oh dear. I forgot that I still can’t pick pockets yet. I can’t fight either. So… I just let them walk by. It’s really awkward for everyone involved.

guild8-620x349.jpg


So I have an ambush skill that I can’t do anything with, a scout roads skill that I’m yet to find a use for and an interpretive dance skill that earns me a pittance. It’s the only thing I seem to be able to grind, though, so it’s back to jumping around like a berk for me. As I dance for my supper (but not really, since I don’t seem to need to eat or sleep, my life is a waking nightmare, send help) I start to think about Melanie. Maybe I just didn’t compliment her enough, or perhaps I should have given her a gift. But what? One of my daggers?

Eventually, I reach resident status, which means I can finally start fights, and I’ve earned enough experience to unlock the pickpocket skill. Time to bring back the plan! As I hide behind my magical crates and bushes, I spot a perfect target, the only person on the road. I click attack and I rush at him. My hiding spot also comes with me. Somehow it’s stuck to me. It doesn’t give me an edge, sadly, and the guy beats the crap out of me.

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Aside from my injuries, there don’t appear to be any other consequences. After battering me, my not-quite-victim just stands there, not reacting. When I walk right up to him again and, in full view, pilfer his pockets, he doesn’t move an inch. I’m 54 gold richer. Pushing my luck, I start to dance. He throws another 36 gold. Incredibly, I manage to make 600 gold out of this guy, picking his pockets and dancing over and over again. When he does finally notice, I surrender and we’re cool again. I pick his pocket five more times. It’s bottomless and I’m loaded. I’ve also levelled up again.

I’m still wearing my hiding spot.

guild10-620x349.jpg


With my pockets full of gold, I feel like I could do anything, which is why I end up married to a woman called Regina after complimenting her five times and then proposing. Proposing is a new ability I seem to have unlocked. A day passes and now we have a son, Gilbert. He just… appeared one day. This family lark is easy. Balancing that out is the apparent uselessness of my spouse and offspring. I might as well be living with a pair of mannequins.

Disappointment has hounded me at every turn. Nothing I do feels like it matters, and the simulation that ostensibly drives the game is very, very slight. Relationships, jobs, the economy that’s meant to lie at the heart of the game — all of them are half-baked at best, and I’ve seen little evidence of any dynamism. This hollowness is making my existential dread flare up again.

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Even by Early Access standards, The Guild 3 feels extremely rough. There are plenty of things to do, once you grind to unlock them, but they’re all empty activities that require almost no player input. GolemLabs warn players that it’s a complex game, but I’m just not seeing it. The systems and interactions aren’t complex, they’re just frequently obfuscated.

Reading the Steam store page raises some alarms, too. The developers say that they’re “nearing completion and balancing/polishing the game”, but I don’t see how that’s possible given that it feels pre-alpha at best. Apparently they’ve added all the features that they wanted to, and the only difference between this and the final version will be stuff added from player feedback. Like its predecessors, The Guild 3 still has a compelling Sims-meets-Anno conceit, but there’s so much more work left to do than its creators seem willing to admit.

The Guild 3 is available on Steam and GOG for £24.99/$29.99/€29.99.These impressions were based on build 0.018F.
 
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Nutria

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Strap Yourselves In
I'm most disturbed by the fact that you can pick the same guy's pocket over and over. If the game isn't tracking how much money that guy has, then there isn't really any economic model going on behind the scenes. That's a fundamental design decision, not something that can be changed this late in development.
 

Emily

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,068
to be honest, the guild 1 and 2 were buggy - and in that sense shitty - as well.

they've got time to fix things. I will not lose hope!

I hope the "final" patch doesn't take 8 years like with Guild 2 ;)

Anyway, if you release a game in EA, to get feedback for balancing and optimization, it makes sense that the gameplay is actually implemented.
Even with the final patch Guild 2 was essentially unplayable mess.

Guild 1 was only worthwhile one,I have no idea why they didnt recreate that one. It was light years ahead of the guild 2.
 

Space Satan

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Ironically, it was Graphics that ruined Guild Ii for me. Not because it was bad, I am used to ADOM and other roguelike shit, but because it was FUCKING HIDEOUSLY OPTIMIZED. It was godawful, carts colliding, people stucking inside textures and everything was slow as fuck.
 

Norfleet

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Messages
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I'm most disturbed by the fact that you can pick the same guy's pocket over and over. If the game isn't tracking how much money that guy has, then there isn't really any economic model going on behind the scenes. That's a fundamental design decision, not something that can be changed this late in development.
If it's anything like the previous Guilds, it DOES track how much money he has, IF he is an actual player attached to one of the dynasty factions, and not simply a random no-name NPC. Random NPCs don't have resources and are just sources of random behavior and cash-extraction. What was NOT tracked is where the money actually WAS, so you could empty out someone's entire treasury by robbing the same building over and over despite there being absolutely no rational reason why they'd want to keep their money there. Also, at least in 1, they would always cough up money even if they had no money left to lose.
 

SmartCheetah

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Messages
1,076
I would totally play "The Guild" like game, in an engine like Rimworld/Prison Architect. Simple 2d sprites, cheap graphics but complex and fun gameplay with good AI.

Also, one dude is making The Guild 2 clone set in early medieval times. Maybe some of you have missed it:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/612720
 

adrix89

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Why are there so many of my country here?
I would totally play "The Guild" like game, in an engine like Rimworld/Prison Architect. Simple 2d sprites, cheap graphics but complex and fun gameplay with good AI.

Also, one dude is making The Guild 2 clone set in early medieval times. Maybe some of you have missed it:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/612720
This kind of games frankly deserve to have good atmosphere like in Patrician 3. They were made to be isometric.
Yes I am a graphics atmosphere whore. I am tired of indie games looking like shit with overweight dolls.
 

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