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The Fall of the Dungeon Guardians - dungeon crawler with RTwP combat

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,124
If you took the UI away from this game's screenshots you couldn't possibly distinguish it from LoG 1 unless you played it last week. What a shameless ripoff. And a dumbed down ripoff as well sadly.

And if you took the UI away from LoG, you couldn't possibly distinguish it from about 500 games that came before it.

You know why? Because corridor in a dungeon always looks the same.
 

Lord Azlan

Arcane
Patron
Shitposter
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
1,901
Looking forward to this one as there just ain't enough blobbers out there - I feel the need to do my duty and support this genre.

Steam reviews are mostly positive. Any codexers that have given it a go?
 

Dorateen

Arcane
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
4,333
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
I am not going to delve into it just yet, but started poking around. If you can look past the superficial WoW-influences, which are irrelevant in a single player game anyway, this appears to be a straight forward grid-based dungeon crawler. More combat orientated, than puzzle based. The ability to pause and micro manage the party adds tactical depth that surpasses other real time games of this genre.

The first level seems introductory and tutorial. At least the pop up messages come from the party members, giving them a bit of flavor when the comments are in character.

I would think people who enjoyed Might & Magic X should not have an aversion to this game.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
I strongly recommend this game.

It is NOT legend of grimrock. Different game completely. Combat is totally not grimrock, you cant step-dance to avoid enemy hits, you WILL take damage, you have to use pause a lot, for hard fights you will pause so often that it will look like it is Turn-Based game.
Though you cant really kite you will still be able to avoid biggest hits from enemy. Just need to time moving when enemy is in process of attacking with big hit.

If you play, dont choose difficulty above 3 from top (4 from top max), game is very hard on high difficulties.
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,250
Location
Italy
Interesting.
I'm keeping an eye on this one.

The low production values are kind of evident, but I'm digging the spirit.
Might wait for a sale of the final, patched (because, who are we kidding?) product.
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
I have some questions:

1. What is "dps graph display"?
2. What is shortcut for Attack?
3. What is shortcut for "select all members"?
4. How to change position of members (move portraits) in party? Also does it matter if party member is in front row or in back row?
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
Whisper,
1- you can see the damage & healing done by each of your toons ; turn it on & check the tooltips on each button
2 & 3- hopefully coming in today update ;)
4- yeah, it still matters though, but that's not a game changer
 

Nyast

Cipher
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
609
Game isn't bad on the combat/tactical side, but the level design is pretty uninspiring.

Seriously, monsters dropping keys on the ground, which are very hard to see, and which open doors at the other side of the level. Few secrets. Very repetitive, maze-like. Rooms have no unique elements or decoration. Lots of trash mobs.

I'm at level 3, I have killed everything and I can't move forward, a door is locked. I don't know where the key is. I've been revisiting every single square for the past 2 hours, inspecting the ground ( I guess a key dropped somewhere ), inspecting the walls, walking again and walking in the same corridors. Not my idea of fun. I had a similar problem at the end of level 2 too ( although shorther ). It seems like it's going to become a recurring problem in the game. Remember the end of Grimrock 1 and how you had to collect the gears in the empty levels before you could get to the end boss ? Well, it feels like that, but for every single level so far for me.

Don't get me wrong, it's not horrible and I recommand it, but make sure that's the kind of game you like first.
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
Nyast,
yup, letting people lose hours looking for missed loot isn't my idea of fun either, so I just added an option to highlight items dropped by the mobs. Hopefully, it'll help people to not miss a very needed key anymore.
However, I think after level 3 there's almost no more important drop by mobs, so you passed the most troublesome part already. (actually, I remember a couple ones, but you can't miss them, they aren't key ;) )

EDIT:
forgot to say... I also just added an autopause that may give a turn based feeling to the game. It's not my idea, it was requested by TB lovers on the Steam Forum... :)
 
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Nyast

Cipher
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
609
Thanks, I think that will go a long way to avoid wasting time running in empty corridors.

I finally found the missing key, and as suspected it was left behind by a boss on a dark tile, was pretty hard to notice. Now on to level 4 !
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
How you patch so fast? I heard that 1) programming takes very long time 2) each bug fix can lead to many new bugs so ppl waste a lot time to fix them too.
 

mastroego

Arcane
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
10,250
Location
Italy
When a lot of people work on a single program you add a lot of "overhead"...
Also a coder often can change something while being unaware of the effects that change has on other parts of the code.

A single coder has more work to do by himself, but he's certainly more efficient when it comes to maintain the program.... he knows where to look, which changes reverberate in other parts of the code and which ones don't, and so on.
I guess this explains what's happening here.
 

jimboton

Novice
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
6
And if you took the UI away from LoG, you couldn't possibly distinguish it from about 500 games that came before it.

You know why? Because corridor in a dungeon always looks the same.

Yeah, no. A Might and Magic dungeon is different to a Grimrock dungeon which looks nothing like an Elminage dungeon. Even in the days of 256 color palettes and lo res displays you wouldn't mistake a Dungeon Master dungeon with a LoL dungeon, a Wizardry dungeon, an Elvira dungeon, a Dark Heart of Uukrul dungeon.. or any other fucking 90's grid dungeon you care to mention.

This is all very 'I give you Grimrock's pretty textures without the hassle of dealing with LoG 2's beautiful design and clever puzzles so all you dumbasses can have some dungeon crawling "fun" too'. Which I guess may suit some here just fine :)
 

Whisper

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
4,357
Advice for game:

Abiltiies have internal CD of 6 seconds. So you cant spam them. Exception being out-of-quee abilities (instant).

But you probably lose some dps from auto-attack if you use long-cast abilities instead of short-cast (not sure about this).
 

ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
Whisper,
as exposed by mastroego , I'm alone, so the whole process is much faster and all the information is within my brain (when I didn't forget it :P ) so no time lost on communication !
Plus I can't sleep when I know some people are prevented from enjoying my game because of some stupid bugs I didn't fix...:?
 

Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
You let the codex help you with the name? Its one of the worst rpg names ive ever come across...
But im interested in the game, just lose the overly colourful hotkey symbols and were good to go. rtwp combat is actually a really decent choice for this game i think.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,825
You let the codex help you with the name? Its one of the worst rpg names ive ever come across...
Really? i think its fitting. Good title if a bit generic, but thats until you read what the game is about, then it clicks.
 

Siobhan

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
472
Location
1X 1Y 2Z
It's a pretty long name due to the high number of heavy syllables and somewhat aysmmetric in that you have a string of monosyllabic words followed by a compound of two polysyllabic ones. The initial "the" isn't all that common with games either --- the exception being titles that otherwise would be a bare noun (e.g. "The Fall" instead of "Fall"). Overall, it looks more like a book title to me. And then there's the unfortunate association with the movie Fall of the Guardians. Not a biggie, of course, despite all my sperging, and here's hoping that the target audience for a game like this won't be turned off by a slightly awkward name.

As for the actual game, I'm watching a let's play on youtube right now (pity there aren't more) and this looks surprisingly good. I expected Russian shovel ware-levels of awful, but this seems to be bug-free and polished with decent production values (modulo the bottom icons, which are too colorful compared to the rest of the art). There also seems to be quite a bit of verticality in the level design --- I can't remember any other grid-based dungeon crawler that puts enemies on a lower level of elevation and still allows them to shoot you through grates in the floor. You also can't cheese fights as much by hiding around corners because enemies can shoot diagonally. What I am missing is puzzles, traps, teleporters, hidden doors and all the other nice things that make a dungeon crawl more than the RPG equivalent of a corridor shooter. But that might still be coming, and I'll definitely take the game for a whirl over Thanksgiving.
 
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ManuTOO

Mana Games
Developer
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
54
Siobhan,
I guess you meant the movie "Rise of the Guardians", no ? :)

The puzzles come on Level 4 and afterwards (1 per level).
There's not much traps in the dungeon, except for the falling risk (but it's not really a trap, I guess).
Teleporters come in the 2nd part of the game.
Secrets start in the 2nd Level (1st Level = only the tutorial secret) ; there are between 2 and 5 of them in each level.
 
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Doktor Best

Arcane
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
2,849
Really? i think its fitting. Good title if a bit generic, but thats until you read what the game is about, then it clicks.

Generic is a fitting word, and its the worst possible attribute for an indie crpg. There are stupid names out there like "two worlds two", or "black gay sir", but atleast they will gain some attention. This title makes me instantly click past the game on gog sales.

I dont want to sound like a jerk here cause i really like the premise of the game, im just adressing my concerns.
 

RuySan

Augur
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
777
Location
Portugal
I have to agree that the name is terrible and incredibly generic, but otherwise the game is looking great.

Went straight to the top of my wishlist
 

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