Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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TBS The Fall From Heaven Thread [Civ 4 mod] - 2016 Edition™

Discussion in 'Strategy and Simulation' started by Eyestabber, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. Northstar Barely Literate

    Northstar
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    Erebus in the Balance does indeed attempt to implement some balance changes, but their version of "Balance" HEAVILY favors warlike nations like the Clan of Embers and thus indirectly weakens relatively peaceful builder-civs like the Elohim, Kuriotates, and Ljsofar by doing far less to strengthen them... Great for aggressive, fast-paced gameplay, but if you have any kind of attachment to playing as the "good guys" (Kael, like the designers of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri had a bit of a soft spot for builders and pacifists, and created a game balance that gives them a fighting chance- indeed the Armageddon Counter itself was originally a kind of negative feedback for warmongering by harshly penalizing Evil civs) then you're better off with just More Naval AI...

    Plus, the current modmod maintainer for EitB is kind of a jerk, unlike Kael, who was a complete gentleman and a good person- which I think reflects in his favorite civ being the Clan of Embers (violent brutes) and his favoring Evil warmongers in the game balance...

    For a little context, Kael was such a good person and complete gentleman he rarely said an unkind word about anyone unless severely provoked, as I hear, and his "Donate" button for Fall From Heaven 2 actually leads to a donation page for UNICEF and a blurb about how making our world better would best honor his work.

    The modmod maintainer for EitB, by contrast, gladly cusses out people he doesn't like, hints at how people ought to give him donation money, walked the fine edge between cheating and unconventional strategy in a couple of his PBEM's, hacked player passwords whenever he felt one was falling behind in PBEM turnaround time, and ignores any design suggestions for EitB he doesn't like.

    My brief exposure to the modmod maintainer for EitB left a foul taste in my mouth (as foul as orcs must smell!) that I shall not soon forget, whereas Kael is the sort of person who left everyone he met with a sort of warm tingly feeling afterwards. Even now his "Donate" button for FFH2 leading to UNICEF continues to do good in the world long after he ceased developing his amazing game mod...


    In short, EitB is kind of an acquired taste. It doesn't remain as true to FFH2's original spirit or lore as you might think, changes the game balance to unduly favor extremely aggressive tactics even more than in vanilla FFH2, and the modmod maintainer was still a jerk worth boycotting the work of, last I checked...
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
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  2. Lampros Literate

    Lampros
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    Are there versions of this mod for Civ 5 or 6?
     
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  3. MadMaxHellfire Magister

    MadMaxHellfire
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    no, they suck too much.
     
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  4. Make America Great Again Eyestabber Arcane Patron

    Eyestabber
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    Which puts them on the same league as Civ 5/6 +M
     
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  5. aitch-hat Barely Literate

    aitch-hat
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    Great start, mate! Just wondering if you planned to finish off your posts? I'd love to see your exploration of AoE and MoM.
     
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  6. exe Savant

    exe
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    People have been saying Civ6 is worse than 5 and also unfixable, whats the big difference between 5 and 6?
     
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  7. flyingjohn Cipher

    flyingjohn
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    Ai is worse at combat and agendas make diplomacy worse then ever.
    Eureka's force you down a narrow production/research path.
    Too little tech and unit variety.
    No balance whatever between free and dlc civs.
    Each new patch introduces new bugs that will get fixed several months later.
    Graphics look like mobile shit.
    No un/world congress.
    Mod tools suck and any full conversions are not happening anytime soon.

    Everything else is better,but the game is not unfixable.If any competent 4x director made a expansion it could be a nice game.
    Unfortunetly the civ 6 team is both incompetent and has no imagination whatsoever,so expect the expansions to have useless features like watching your artifacts in a museum or just adding stuff they removed like un.
     
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  8. Make America Great Again cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Can't find any better Civ4 thread so here goes.

    There's a Nightdive sale on Steam, including the original Colonization. When I saw that I immediately got a boner. SMC is easily in my TOP10 games ever. I played it to death tho and I know Firaxis made a total conversion mod for Civ4. I seem to remember I tried it on release but hated it. I'll be fucked tho if I remember why. I think the general consensus was pretty bad at that time too.

    Anyone played it? Do you remember what was wrong with the mod? Has it gotten better over the years? Is it worth playing now or do I really have to stick to the original?

    Oh and I don't suppose there are any rumors about Firaxis trying to have another go at the formula?
     
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  9. aitch-hat Barely Literate

    aitch-hat
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  10. Humanophage Arcane

    Humanophage
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    Update 1: I have been playing Ashes of Erebus as Kuriotates, and it is not as messy as it first seemed, except towards the end - but so does Civ itself. It is true that some 'pedia entries are missing, but there is enough flavour text at any rate, and its quality is often lacking. The sheer amount of options prevents excessive exploitation of the system, and there is a sense of mystery to how other civilizations operate. Unlike in Civ, where you know the tech tree perfectly well, and do everything with that in mind, here the situation is a bit less well-determined.

    Bad events (e.g., a promising city was crippled by a -2 pop, -6 happiness event early on, and then was beset by powerful barbarians) prevent the player from getting the upper hand early on, and sometimes the events are truly crippling. E.g., I had a peaceful elephant in my borders who hanged around for about 100 turns, but then it seemingly grew in power and started attacking my forts. I wasted quite a lot of units trying to counter this. Another time, it turned out that the only plausible plot into which I could expand came to be occupied by a dragon. The AI is a little odd with wars. E.g., the lizard race declared war on me in spite of good relations - I presume because I blocked a location they wanted, which is a common case for vanilla AI aggression. Flavourful maps add to the sense of discovery. I would advise playing on flat maps, as this further distances AoE from the original Civ. I also don't play on maps that exceed Small to avoid tedious micromanagement - I imagine it would be even worse here than in vanilla BtS.

    Update 2: I tried playing as the Khazad (on Immortal), and they are comically overpowered. With golden age on turn 180 on normal speed, I have four times the gold output of the second-best civ, 2.5 times the production. Without it, it is merely three times as much gold and twice the prod. I am completely invincible due to dwarven settlements and mountains, am on my way to overtaking a neighbouring civ, and am one of two advanced civs with access to a huge continent in which to expand. Oh yes, the top two cities are mine. I have already had two golden ages, one of them because of a wonder. While the Kuriotates have to be very careful because of barbarians, the Khazad are more or less immune to them. They really need some penalties to food production, or perhaps their special ability has to be weakened.

    I tried Master of Mana + Master of Mana Xtended 3, and it was quite a mess. While the mechanics with resources and items look great and interesting on paper, the AI is pathetic, and many things seem oddly balanced. For instance, someone came up with the idea of generously sprinkling deer all over the map while making them give you 9 food and a hammer with a camp. It is also intensely buggy: on certain maps, the AI won't develop at all (only maps marked MoM seem to work right). Even when it does appear to function, it doesn't send units to take a village right on its borders. I certainly did not encounter any stacks of doom. Are we talking about the same thing? I mean this one. Since there are several versions of MoM that appear to be quite different from one another, I'd greatly appreciate being pointed towards the best-polished MoM version, because I spent several hours trying to find conditions under which it would work, to be rewarded only with a headache and no functional game.

    AoE looks like a mess because of excessive options, but the AI is reasonably capable there, because the core gameplay isn't that different from the original Civ. For example, I liked how the Illian timed his unique spell to take over the two leaders at the time. The Elohim cleverly cast the protective spell when they were suddenly attacked from two sides. The AIs were certainly fairly aggressive towards one another, though not to me, for some reason - I suppose because I deliberately tried to keep relations friendly. Also, the buildings are so abundant that you will probably fall behind if you begin building a reasonable amount of units. The start is also a somewhat more dynamic experience because the mod keeps throwing diverse challenges at you, while in MoM all you do is run about with a hawk and a trapper, avoiding stationary barbarians (the AI seems to have no grasp of that tactic, so you end up getting all the massive bonuses from villages).
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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