Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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TBS The Fall From Heaven Thread [Civ 4 mod] - 2016 Edition™

Discussion in 'Strategy Gaming' started by Eyestabber, Mar 9, 2016.

  1. Make America Great Again Eyestabbergender: ⚧ Arcane Patron

    Eyestabber
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    Well, Bannor is the obvious answer, but I'm assuming you read the OP, so I'm gonna give you different suggestions. First of all, define "good civs". Are you referring exclusively to civs that are counted among the good ones HERE? If so...

    - TRY THE ELOHIM. I know, they look boring as fuck. National Hero can sacrifice himself for insta-peace and their World Spell expels enemies from their territory. OTOH they have the ubber stronk TOLERANT trait, which allows for limitless possibilities like producing Vampire units, Dwarven Cannons etc. They can even construct another civilization's palace, for maximum adaptability. It may seem like the Elohim's good stuff doesn't really synergize, but that is not true. Elohim is a builder civilization, so you need your world spell to survive the early onslaught of the likes of Clan of Embers/Doviello/Whoeverstartsthegamewithalotofmetalresourcesnearhiscapital. After the survival phase you can start expanding and abusing the Tolerant trait for maximum lulz. Potentially Fun Civ, assuming you don't get screwed early on.

    - Malakim is, IMO, a bit boring. A turtle civ with not much FUN going on for them. Fantasy Egyptians with better-than-most usage of Floodplains and the ability to easily dominate the Overcouncil. They also have great synergy with a religious victory, because of their World Spell and the Spiritual trait. To be fair, Malakim is actually easier to play with than the Bannor, because they are probably the most Vanilla-like civ, but I decided to call Bannor the "go-to noob civ" because they are almost as easy BUT, unlike the Malakim, look more like classic fantasy knights.

    - Kuriotates: never played. They seem like a vertical growth enthusiast's wet dream. I'm more of a horizontal growth guy myself, so...

    - Luchuirp: everyone says they used to be OP as fuck in vanilla FfH2, but I don't really know where they stand nowadays. I'm put off by their reliance on non-living units, which means no buffs. No buffs = boring.

    That covers all the options for a restrictive concept of "good civ".

    If by "good civ" you're willing to accept anyone who usually joins the Overcouncil then I have a couple of suggestions:

    - KHAZAD. Seriously, play dem Dwarves (first SS in the OP). They have everything in place to have a strong industry producing everything in like 5 turns. Vault mechanics are very unique and add an entire new layer of strategy. Since you're probably gonna be running Arete, you'll have to consider if lowering your vault's gold level is worth whatever you intend to buy. At maximum vault level (overflowing) you get additional GPP and a ton of happy faces. Incredibly strong civ if they get a good start (aka, gold resource near the capital with plenty of hills), fairly strong otherwise. Also, your national hero is called Dwarven Cannon. Spam it:

    [​IMG]
    Featuring on the screenshot: Dwarven Cannons and Arquebuses. "Compensating height with firepower" - Khazad's motto

    - Amurites. Good-aligned Amurites have Paladins with every single buff in the game kicking ass non-stop. Who gives a shit about druids anyway, lolololol (yeah, I know the Amurites can have 12 archmage-tier casters, but I'd rather have stronger warriors with 8 archmages). Also, don't forget that both Order and Overcouncil have strong synergy with horizontal growth, which in turn translates into your Caves of the Ancestors giving 20+ XP to every new adept. When it comes to the Amurites, mana types are like Pokemon, you really wanna to catch 'em all! :D

    - Ljosalfar. Technically not a "good" civ, but they are the "good elves", as opposed to the Svartalfar. Plus one of their leaders actually IS good, while none is evil. So there is that. Elven mechanics are very unique, since you'll be able to build improvements on top of forests, thus stacking the bonuses of both. Late game Civ, make of that what you will...

    And if by "good civ" you mean anyone who might convert to the Order at some point then I have just the screenshot for you...

    [​IMG]
    Orcish Paladins. Yes, they have a unique model. Join Eyestabber today on #notallorcs. You know you want to! :D
     
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  2. Polanskigender: ⚧ Educated

    Polanski
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    FFH (and its modmods) is probably the one game I have spent the most time on by far. Amazing story, design, campaign, minigames, depth, graphics, and replayability like never before.

    I don't think I can go back, because I don't have that kind of time anymore, but I highly recommend everyone to try it.
     
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  3. MadMaxHellfiregender: ⚧ Magister

    MadMaxHellfire
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    bannor are fun because they spread deserts which slow to a crawl any attempt of invasion.
     
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  4. Sjukobgender: ⚧ Savant

    Sjukob
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    I've never played Civilization games before , but here's my experience with this mod .

    Grigori seems like the way to go race for me .

    - They are agnostic . You don't need to research religion , you also would not fall under influence of other religions .
    - Over time you gain adventurers , free units that can turn into powerhouse . I bullied barbarians around , even destroyed some citites in early game with just one adventurer .
    - Cassiel is an adoptive leader meaning , that you can adapt to the situation you are in and take trait you need .
    - Grigori unique buildings give additional boost to great people production speed .

    I tried Amurites before , but didn't understand their playstyle . They seem too dependant on the resources , you are fucked if you don't have acess to mana nodes .

    Wish it was possible to summon Cthulhu if you choose octupus overlords as your religion .

    P.S. Fuck archers .
     
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  5. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    The religions are pretty huge boons if you focus on them. They're not just civics; they give access to some spells, units, and some really awesome heroes, along with some other cool benefits like the treants defense offered by the way of the leaves (trees? I forget the name) or pulling the angels/demons into the war as your allies (or your new civ.)
     
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  6. Sjukobgender: ⚧ Savant

    Sjukob
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    After recent game , I became suspicious about AI cheating . To me it seemed like fog of war didn't exist for it , it also had a marvelous ability to pull military units out of it's ass . So I started a new game , disabled fog of war and what did I see ? The AI cities spread borders , produce units and gain population 3 times faster than they should . Holy shit , am I supposed find some way to game the system to be able to win ?!
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2016
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  7. Tanakagender: ⚧ Novice

    Tanaka
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    Great post and tips! Tried MOM and it was way too much and over-complicated for the AI to handle. Looking for a better AI! Gonna give this a try thanks!
     
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  8. GarfunkeLgender: ⚧ Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    The AI has always been cheating like a motherfucker in the Civ games.
     
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  9. Damned Registrationsgender: ⚧ Prestigious Gentleman Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist

    Damned Registrations
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    Yep. But at the same time, they've also always been handicapped in certain ways, to give them 'personalities' and to keep them from doing things egregiously annoying to the player (like efficiently plundering all the tiles in your empire during a war, or tech brokering like a player would.)

    Plenty of things you can do to game the system even in normal Civ, in FFH it's even more extreme- make use of heroes and wonders and rare/unique map resources the AI doesn't value properly.
     
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  10. Sjukobgender: ⚧ Savant

    Sjukob
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    It's pretty sad . I seriously like this mod , but I will try to get better .
     
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  11. Old Onegender: ⚧ Magister

    Old One
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    So, Eyestabber's enthusiasm got me to dust off my Civ4 Complete DVD, which had been sitting on my shelf for four or five years. I got it installed and working, downloaded FfH2 and EMM, and started playing.

    I like it. The fantasy angle works better for me than the regular Civ4 BTS pseudo-historical nonsense. I mean, colonizing another planet with the Sioux nation or the Zulus is fun once, but it loses it's novelty pretty fast.

    The general idea of FfH2 seems to be to incorporate some ideas from Master of Magic into Civ4, and that's a good idea to have started with, so it works quite well. If only they could have managed another plane of existence like Myrror in MoM...now THAT would be cool.

    My one gripe so far is that the tech trees have been chopped off shortly after gunpowder. It would be fascinating to see technology continue to develop in a FfH2 universe where magic exists.
     
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  12. Make America Great Again Whiskygender: ⚧ The Solution

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    Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
    They actually were at some point trying to see if there was a possible way to make hell separate from the main map. It was cancelled as it was simply not possible in Civ IV to do that.
     
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  13. GarfunkeLgender: ⚧ Racism Expert

    GarfunkeL
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    Yeah, Caveman to Cosmos has a Earth-Moon-Mars map but it's actually just your regular huge map divided in three parts, which was a major bummer.
     
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  14. Old Onegender: ⚧ Magister

    Old One
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    I figured it was not possible. That's a pretty tall order unless the game is specifically designed to allow it. It doesn't surprise me they wanted to try though, because that's how Master of Magic does it.

    I think I'm going to try to setup a FfH2+EMM game as close to a MoM game as I can get: four random competitors on a medium or possibly a small map.
     
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  15. you know what time it isgender: ⚧ Arcane

    you know what time it is
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    Wasn't Enchantress (or whatever the fuck its name is) made by the same folks?
     
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  16. Monkeyfingergender: ⚧ Augur

    Monkeyfinger
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    Only the project lead is the same, Derek Paxton.

    None of the amateur coders and asset creators who helped build FFH2 were part of the Fallen Enchantress team.
     
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  17. Lone Wolfgender: ⚧ Arcane

    Lone Wolf
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    I thought the story was that he came on board for the 'reboot' of FE (Legendary Heroes)?
     
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  18. Monkeyfingergender: ⚧ Augur

    Monkeyfinger
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    Fallen Enchantress is a reboot of Elemental.
    Legendary heroes is an expansion to Fallen Enchantress.
    Paxton led development on both.
     
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  19. you know what time it isgender: ⚧ Arcane

    you know what time it is
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    Aight, well FFH seems to be much better than them stand-alone games, go figure.
     
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  20. Make America Great Again mastroegogender: ⚧ Arcane

    mastroego
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    Paxton was basically hired to salvage Elemental. He did improve it significantly imho, though it obviously remains a Stardock spreadsheet game.
     
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  21. MadMaxHellfiregender: ⚧ Magister

    MadMaxHellfire
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    being a spreadheet is not necessarily a problem.
    being spread shit is, and elemental was it.
     
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  22. Make America Great Again mastroegogender: ⚧ Arcane

    mastroego
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    I said Stardock spreadsheet, there's a difference with vanilla spreadsheet...
     
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  23. Old Onegender: ⚧ Magister

    Old One
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    So it seems my enjoyment of this game and mods depends a lot on how the generated map turns out. I few times I've created a Huge world split into three or four continents and lots of islands, and most of the other civs end up starting right next to me on one continent, while the others are empty. That was not so fun.

    I made a Huge world, lateral wrap-around, fewer mountains, fewer jungles, medium sea level, marathon, barbarian world, minimal flavor, and living world. This is the most fun game so far. One really big continent with a huge bay in the middle. I started in a temperate area on the eastern shore of the bay. The water is to the west of me, while further east is a mountain range. Beyond the mountain range is a big desert. The Malakim are out there, but pretty far away. Early on they got destroyed by the Ashen orc dudes, but apparently the city rebelled because they're back and doing quite well. There are several other civs on the shores of the bay, too. It's a cool setup.

    To the north is another mountain range with a vast forest beyond. Nice.

    There are also some islands to explore on the edges, but to get to them I have to sail out of the bay and around the continent, so it will take a long time to explore them. I'm playing Elohim, BTW.
     
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  24. Tanakagender: ⚧ Novice

    Tanaka
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    I've noticed that More Naval AI is up to version 2.7 and ExtraMod only has version 2.6.2. Can you update More Naval AI without breaking things?
     
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  25. Make America Great Again baturinskygender: ⚧ Arcane

    baturinsky
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    Returning to FfH after long break. I play FFH2+NavalAi.

    First play was Svartalfar. Did badly, because I did not know what I was doing. Abandoned.

    Second play was Luchiurp. Their military is strong through the whole game. Wooden golems dominate early game, Iron golems with fireballs wrecks everything later. Essentially won the game on~300 turn, got bored.

    Then started another Svartalfar game, now with more experience. Well, they are nothing special early game, but their economy explodes after reaching Guardians of Nature, and their military is unstoppable once you have mages - but only with default leader. Viccy's traits are Arcane Raiders, meaning that your mages (besides leveling faster) can move 6 squares on roads on enemy territory. In my first offensive war I took enemy capital on the same turn I declared, and then took another city each turn or two.

    I also tried some other modmods, but without much luck. RiFE was not working (showed lots of XML errors on loading). MasterOfMana site is dead. Which is said, because I remember having a lot of fun with Scions of Patria.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
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