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The Eye of the Beholder Thread

Elwro

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I finished EoB 1 with a pure Fighter, Mage and Cleric, but I'm not sure what the fourth char was. Perhaps he was a Paladin. Anyway, I'm certain I didn't multiclass, but I didn't hit the level cap too early.
 

Unkillable Cat

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As for the level cap in the EOB games, the only way to even get near the level cap in all three games is to grind the monsters. In the first game it's the Kenku, whom for some reason are worth 5000 XP a pop (when they should be 975). In the second game it's the Greater Guardian Yugoloths, whom are 11000 XP each. In EOB3 it's the Undead Beasts in the first dungeon of the game, whom yield 8000 XP. That's right, the best place to grind XP in EOB3 is almost at the start. That's just one of several "WTF?" things about EOB3.
 

DaveO

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As others have stated, stick to single class characters with the possible exception of the Mage. You could do Fighter/Thief to not worry about Insal(who steals an item from your party anyway) in the second installment. Or Thief/Mage since that's a combination that will let you still have decent Mage levels without much sacrifice.

My personal choice would be: Fighter, Paladin, Cleric, Thief/Mage. The biggest problem I can see is having all characters being able to attack regardless of rank. Rocks seem wimpy in comparison to arrows.

P.S. - On second thought, you're probably better off with Fighter/Mage. I know you can combine Thief with fighter without too much sacrifice for levels. I remember milking EoB1 and EoB2 for the experience. Then comes #3, and you want the torture to end as soon as possible.
 

Mortmal

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Easy one, in front you want two tanks , one paladin, one fighter at best , in back thief/mage and cleric. Thief isnt really mandatory as far as i remmber and really not worth to get a full thief character.
 
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Unkillable Cat said:
Dwarven Fighter
Human Paladin
Human Cleric
Human Mage

That's the best party right there if you're planning to go through all three games, and it fulfulls the minimum requirements needed of your party. Only one of the characters cannot gain the maximum level of 20 (the Dwarven Fighter) but he's capped at Level 18, so no worries about that. The level cap for EOB1 is Level 11 for all classes except Cleric, which is 10. For EOB2 it's Level 13.

BTW, you don't need the Paladin, but if (and that's a big if, I haven't found a way to confirm or deny this fact) he has Protection From Evil '10 permanently cast on himself, he pretty much becomes a no-brainer pick, as EOB doesn't play any differently whether you have a good or evil party. Besides, the "won't join a party with Evil-aligned characters" is only used when creating the characters, even if you create the most Evil party in all of Faerun, the Paladin NPC at the end of EOB3 will still join up with you.

With this party, you will need at least one Fighter class with maximum Strength (18/00) in order to overcome a puzzle in EOB3. As for the Thief-only doors in EOB2, use Insal the Quick to get through. Getting through those doors is not vital to complete the game, though.

Class-specific level restrictions only apply to EOB3, regardless of what the manuals for EOB1 and EOB2 tell you.

I advise against using Elven characters in EOB. They get none of their racial bonuses, but they do get the racial penalties of being immune to Raise Dead (which becomes a real problem in EOB2) and having somewhat annoying level caps in EOB3.

The Ranger bonus to two-handed fighting is not worth having him vulnerable in the front ranks. Also, he needs massive amounts of XP to gain levels.

Gnomes and Halflings are pretty much a waste of time if you plan to go through EOB3, as their level restrictions there are pathetic.

This covers everything nicely. Easily the best party.
 

Jasede

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Thanks for the replies. I am not too sure if I want to slog through EoB 3, but I think I'll go with the Unkillable Cat party. After all this isn't Icewind Dale: Heart of Fury where the first goblins have a Thac0 of -10 and an AC of -8, and 120 hitpoints (versus your level 1 characters). That was hardcore. It made you have to multiclass a lot, so everyone was able to at least survive one, two hits and hit things in melee, because every single spell was so crucial to keep most monsters immobilised and out of combat. The encounter with five ogres in the orc caves with something like 200 HP and hits that kill nearly every class in one hit... legendary stuff.

I digress, but I like remembering these kind of things. I could gush about them forever. That's why I came to the RPG Codex. It's been a while.

Thanks for the suggestions. Did you guys use random stat rolls? Did you take the first roll? How hard are the games, even?
 

Unkillable Cat

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Do I roll for the stats? Let me put it this way: When Intelligence and Charisma do absolutely nothing in the game and Wisdom only benefits Clerics, why should I bother with random rolls for my stats?

Seriously, your Wizard can have INT 9 (the minimum) and be just as effective as if he had INT 18. EOB is Diet AD&D Lite Zero. I'm not ashamed of modifying my stats in these games. If you come across writing that your party cannot understand, it's because you don't have a character of the appropriate race in your party, not because your characters are dumber than a sack of bricks. Ugly bricks.

As for difficulty - overall the difficulty curve is fair but there are moments when the odds are weighed heavily against you. Some of the puzzles (especially in EOB2 and EOB3) can also challenge your noggin a good bit. But basically, the difficulty of the game depends on what monsters you're fighting at any given time. (Hint: Mind Flayers and Beholders are bad, mmmkay?) As long as you can prepare yourself somewhat for whatever you're fighting, you should be good.

The only time things get really tough is when you're up against somewhat dangerous monsters and are in a somewhat dangerous part of a dungeon at the same time. EOB2 has a handful of such places, while EOB3 is chuck-full of them, pretty much bordering on cheese-fests at times. Ever want to try your luck at fighting 8 Wights and 8 Shadows while being trapped in a room full of poison gas? Neither do I, but EOB3 thinks such tricks are par for the course.
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
You'll laugh, but I used to play on a Neverwinter Nights persistent world that had a dungeon a DM made where he'd sometimes have an NPC hire PCs to grab a dagger from, in exchange for 50000 gold pieces, a fortune.

It was made very clear it was supposed to be a very tough challenge, and players of course had to be willing to perma-die. And it ended up being fantastic, but there was just this one part he might have taken from EoB 2: there was a room filled with skeletal warriors with magic greatswords as well as wraiths and tough custom ghouls that was filled with poison gas! Chock full of it.

We - my eyeball-monster and a down-on-his luck kobold only survived because the party leader happened to be a hard as nails badass Duergar cleric woman who was immune to poison.

Did I mention the doors to that poison gas room closed behind us when we entered? Good times.
 

Jaesun

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Zomg said:
Doing an EoB run is such a bummer because you finish Darkmoon and you're like, man, I guess I'll import to 3 and you play for ten minutes and realize you will never bother finishing.

That is so sadly accurate.
 

Andhaira

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The best party is the following:

Human Paladin (Front)
Half Elf Fighter Mage (Front)
Human mage (rear)
Human Cleric (rear)
 

Unkillable Cat

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EOB3 fails on so many points right at the start, it makes you wonder what the developers were smoking.

The level you start in is one gigantic open area. The only "walls" that are in the area can be cut down, which is an interesting feature but used kinda stupidly. Naturally you'll need an Axe to cut down the trees, but if your party doesn't start with one then you're gonna have go find one, which isn't as easy as it sounds.

There are two exits out of the starting area, one leads to the Mausoleum and the other deeper into the forest. But your progress into the forest is quickly blocked by trees, and the only way past them is to wave some silly items in front of the trees so that they "make way" for you. Okay. One of these items is at the very end of the Mausoleum, and it would be natural to make the players go through the dungeon in order to progress further in the game...except there's no need, as there is another item right beside the first patch of stubborn trees that allows you to pass them. So what can you get out of the Mausoleum? The Rod Of Restoration? It's a cool item that restores drained levels (yes, you can be drained of levels in EOB3) except...the only monster in EOB3 that drains levels is found in the Mausoleum. So that's actually a reason NOT to enter the Mausoleum. Nice one, guys.

The only powerful weapon I can remember being in the Mausoleum is a +3 Trident. And then there's always the XP, but I can understand if people would rather spare themselves the pain. The Mausoleum is not a friendly place at all.

The "rest of the forest" area isn't exactly interesting either. It's almost one big long passageway filled with Minotaurs and invisible monsters from a planet near Mars, along with a thorny thicket of clearings that are really confusing to navigate. But assuming you make it to the end of the forest, you have to answer a riddle of sorts. You get two attempts to answer it correctly, screw it up and you're hosed. Can't proceed further. Time to reload or restart the game. And we haven't even reached Myth Drannor yet. Nice game, isn't it?

The game picks up a bit once you actually enter Myth Drannor, But by then most people have had enough. There are also loads of design questions that remain unanswered, like why the Stone to Flesh spell is in the game when there are no monsters/traps that petrify you? Or how come only the boss monsters have paralyzing attacks. Or why two dozen Banshees are easier to deal with than the Undead thingies at the start of the game? Don't Banshees have, like, a "Save vs Death or die!" attack? Or why the Big Bad Boss is guarded by a bunch of sissie enemies that die when you glance in their direction? The list goes on...

AndhairaX said:
The best party is the following:

Human Paladin (Front)
Half Elf Fighter Mage (Front)
Human mage (rear)
Human Cleric (rear)

I disagree because of the bolded party member, but he's not a bad party choice either. A front-rank Mage does have some useful spells he can unleash, but despite the fact that the Fighter/Mage can cast spells while wearing armour or using a shield (WTF?) then he'll always have few Hit Points and generally be a "soft" target. What's worse, the fact that you now have two Mages that need to be fed Spell Scrolls means that unless you plan very carefully, both Mages will be gimped in their selection of spells. If you want more of a challenge out of EOB, then he's a good choice for a front-ranker.
 

Andhaira

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It appears mmyth drannor is a curse in AD&D games. Both EOB 3 and that Ruins of Myth Drannor game (that uninstalled your windows) sucked donkey balls.
 

Unkillable Cat

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AndhairaX said:
It appears mmyth drannor is a curse in AD&D games. Both EOB 3 and that Ruins of Myth Drannor game (that uninstalled your windows) sucked donkey balls.

But Curse Of The Azure Bonds did not suck, and that game eventually took you to Myth Drannor.
 

Azael

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Unkillable Cat said:
Dwarven Fighter
Human Paladin
Human Cleric
Human Mage
.

That would be my party as well, multiclassing doesn't seem to useful in this game and there are some thief NPCs to be picked up if you need them. In EoB 2, I use Insal to get Amber and then stash my stuff somewhere before I rest (not sure if this actually stops him from stealing though).
 

Unkillable Cat

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Insal will steal 2-3 packs of rations, a couple of healing potions and the first weapon that he finds in your party. AFAIK, he "scans" the inventory of your first character and nabs the first weapon he comes across, starting with the hands. If your first character has no weapons, he'll move on to the next, and so on. Anything he steals cannot be recovered.

Using NPC to get a Thief is a fully viable tactic in EOB2, useless in EOB1 and utterly pointless in EOB3. In EOB3 (yet another "WTF?" design decision) the only place you may need a Thief is on the first level of the Mausoleum, where he can unjam some rusty levers. However, the only Thief NPC in EOB3 is on the second level of the Mausoleum...which you can only reach by clearing out the first level, which involves...you guessed it, unjamming the aforementioned levers.
 

Azael

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Yeah, but he only leaves the party after you rest, right? So using him to get Amber without resting in between, then stashing your items before resting could work or am I remembering things wrong.

Can't remember if a thief was very useful in EoB1 or not, but when I think about it, I usually did have a mulitclass thief in my party.
 

Unkillable Cat

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You're right. Insal only nicks stuff if he's in your party when resting...and alive. :twisted:

Thieves are useful in EOB1 in that they can open some locked doors, but there are keys available for all the doors they can open. At best you are saving yourself some time.

For those that want a Thief in their EOB party, making the aforementioned Dwarven Fighter a Fighter/Thief is a decent solution. He levels up more slowly, but at least you have all bases covered.
 

Topher

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Ok, I've never played the series and plan on taking my characters through all three games. Any tips on who to bring? I've noticed that thief's are practically useless, I lied I've played a little, and rangers don't seem to get cleric spells. Is either class ever useful?

I'm thinking of going with a pure cleric, pure mage, multi-class cleric/mage and paladin. Decent or should I swap the multi-class cleric/mage for gnome cleric/thief or something else?

Also, if folks want a let's play of this I'll do one, probably, well maybe, well see... I'm feeling open but non-committal.
 

Topher

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Well, fuck it I'm pressing on. I took a multi-class fighter/thief, a multi-class ranger/cleric, a pure mage and a pure cleric.

I hope the thief and ranger don't ended up being a giant fucking waste but if they are it's your fucking fault for not helping my impatient ass.

Also, I'm saving up some pics for a LP but if I do won't it will be fairly cursory because I doubt that many people really care.
 

DaveO

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You won't get thru all three Eye of the Beholder games with any party. The really bad quality of the third installment guarantees it.
 

Crichton

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Well, as far as I know there isn't any class -specific content in the EoB games, so all we're talking about is power gaming.

In 2nd edition D&D games, multi-class fighter/mage and multi-class fighter/cleric are head and shoulders at the top of the heap, other classes are just kind of there for amusement's sake. A fighter/thief might not be completely useless if there are locks to pick.
 

someone else

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Dwarf fighter/thief
Paladin
Mage
Cleric
Is the standard party, you can get by without a thief but it helps if you cannot find keys. You also get to pick up 2 more NPCs.
Did you max your stats?
The maze is more dangerous than the monsters in this game.
 

Zomg

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If you one-roll characters instead of using modify to give them good stats, just make four mage/clerics (the multiclass) and dump the ones with the shittiest stats as you get more findable PCs. There are like four different 18/something strength fighter PCs, one decent cleric and one decent mage IIRC. You can transfer found PCs to EoB2 if you care to.

Fighter/mages and fighter/clerics are worthless in EOB because you have to use a hand slot to hold their casting item. Thieves are entirely useless.
 

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